Reinforcements update

[jodgi]

10 hours ago, PongoNW said:

remember how many players you had when you did not optimize the game for griefers.

How is OW optimized for griefers? Optionally: When was is not and roughly when did this optimization happen?

[fox2run]

3 hours ago, Liq said:

In real life you dont have two dimensions, battle instance and a 15x compressed OW. If a battle was open forever you could call in reinforcmemts from across the map, when realistically they would have never been in the range of the battle to join. 3 min simulates that only those in range can join, as it should be 

But then it's a game. And it's fun to be in a battle with other players.

I think most of the PvP user will agree on this. The question is... How do we achieve this and make the right balances? 

Boredom versus action...

 

 

 

 

[jodgi]

18 minutes ago, fox2run said:

And it's fun to be in a battle with other players.

But you get exactly that in patrol missions! They're even open for 30 minutes. This very close to what you've kept asking for.

Have you tried them out?

 

[fox2run]

No. I have turned into a PvE carebear as I can't afford to loose ships. I lost a Constitution and now I'm trying to build a third rare as a replacement.  In old days I would have 3 more Constitutions to throw at the enemy. But not now. I have 30.000 gold and no Lignum Vitae. It takes forever to build just one ship.

PvP seems so far away for me. I'm average and there's a reason why I only come back sporadic. I guess I'm not the only one. Please consider how the casual player can come back to this game and find it playable again.

[GhastlyGhost]

it looks like you play another game

[Liq]

1 minute ago, fox2run said:

No. I have turned into a PvE carebear as I can't afford to loose ships. I lost a Constitution and now I'm trying to build a third rare as a replacement.  In old days I would have 3 more Constitutions to throw at the enemy. But not now. I have 30.000 gold and no Lignum Vitae. It takes forever to build just one ship.

PvP seems so far away for me. I'm average and there's a reason why I only come back sporadic. I guess I'm not the only one. Please consider how the casual player can come back to this game and find it playable again.

I didnt see you in the testing beta of NAL. One or two battles in a cutter (ususlly 20 v 20) got you into the next vessel. We had a lot of fun in 6th rates too. But not enough players found it enjoyable, only a dozen or so players got to frigates. 

I think nal would have been great with more battle options (as i prefer 1v1 - 3v3 battles over 20v20 where you barely got any impact) and some more promoting.

(Oh and you can use the euro trader to get lignum without having a building)

[fox2run]

9 minutes ago, GhastlyGhost said:

it looks like you play another game

The ones that plays it like me have left. It's very grindy now compared to old multi duras days.

If you want more players you need to make things easier to get. Less grind-more fun.

[fox2run]

PS: do you have any Lignum Vitae, becourse I have none. I have asked in national chat and made contract. But nothing... not that any players are on chat anymore.

I'm stucked. 

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, fox2run said:

PS: do you have any Lignum Vitae, becourse I have none. I have asked in national chat and made contract. But nothing... not that any players are on chat anymore.

I'm stucked. 

I can give you lignum, and a free aga or two. PM me.

[AeRoTR]

How about this?

Battle should be open for a long time, BUT if you arrive late, you spawn far away, you arrive 10 min later may be it will take 7-8 minutes to sail to active fighting zone ? 

 

[fox2run]

11 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

How about this?

Battle should be open for a long time, BUT if you arrive late, you spawn far away, you arrive 10 min later may be it will take 7-8 minutes to sail to active fighting zone ? 

 

That would work great but it can't be done with land in battles. 

My advice would be to make ships multi duras again. Open the battles so that each battle in reality could develop into a 25 vs 25 ship combat.

This would be a cool game to work from. With basics in place further stuff could be implemented down the road.

[Palatinose]

@fox2run dude you dont need to craft your own ships for the start. Make money by trading and get a boat. Do some PvE and get some more gold. Buy ressources. I mean I can do pvp all day long but that's because i do all the annoying stuff inbetween. Ask someone to give you some starting capital. Otherwise there is only an arena game for you..

[fox2run]

Get a boat? 

What an insult. I'm level 50. You cannot put an admiral in a boat.

But I'm also a single player mostly, even though I'm founder of  a clan for casual players. 

I'm missing the days where easy access to stuff meant action every night. Now things are too grindy and takes too much effort. 

But I guess I have stated this 100 times or so. To no avail.

 

 

[fox2run]

7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

If really all you want to do is instant action, why not just organize fleet practices for your casual players?

Why don't you understand that it is never the players fault if a game population fails?

The game lacks fun. It had some of it back in 2016. 

I have made a lot of feedback on this. But I'm met with an army of bezzerwizzers. If I don't find the game fun, it's my own fault.

Ok. What about this: NA is crappy and gets bad reviews. It's a bad game with big flaws.

You can change things or you can blame the players.

What do you think will work the best?

Have fun blaming, dude.

[IndianaGeoff]

42 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Why don't you understand that it is never the players fault if a game population fails?

The game lacks fun. It had some of it back in 2016. 

I have made a lot of feedback on this. But I'm met with an army of bezzerwizzers. If I don't find the game fun, it's my own fault.

Ok. What about this: NA is crappy and gets bad reviews. It's a bad game with big flaws.

You can change things or you can blame the players.

What do you think will work the best?

Have fun blaming, dude.

Honestly, the game has been so screwed up and so many have left, testing new or old mechanics is a waste.  Your comments are right on.  I had fun when ships were fairly easy to make, did not demand weeks of grinding to open slots and put the upgrades in them.  There were mechanics to defend your coasts, nightly fights (flag era) and you could fight AI off your coast with reasonable safety.  This was surrounded by enough players for multiple nations to fight it out.

The Hardmode era drove off our Admirals.  When they saw months of casual grinding to get back into a first rate that they could not afford to fight... they left.  The ability to swap nations with all your stuff concentrated good players into fewer and fewer nations of elite players.  The various mechanics to force PvP end up with those players ganging up anyone with marks for dying.  Defense of coasts became useless then lack of players moved it to impossible.  Zero content other than killing newbies aborted many a new player.  Oh and the difficulty of crawling out of a cutter just made sure nobody new stuck with the game.

The various antics of the Devs and admins killed these forums.  Aborting what good will there could be.  So here we are.  But it's all good.  This is an early release game and if you can't handle the suck STFU newb.

[Jim Beamreach]

1 hour ago, fox2run said:

Get a boat? 

What an insult. I'm level 50. You cannot put an admiral in a boat.

But I'm also a single player mostly, even though I'm founder of  a clan for casual players. 

I'm missing the days where easy access to stuff meant action every night. Now things are too grindy and takes too much effort. 

But I guess I have stated this 100 times or so. To no avail.

 

 

I play alone too, but i dont need all at once. Most time i Sail a shop snow, the current one is a Bermuda/Crewspace with medium cannons only the chasers are longs. Next thing i got only a few shipknoledge stuff i think the most important one that i owne is the complete fencing master or how it is called. I play sometimes only a few hours a day. If i want to do PvP then i take my snow jump out of a freeport and sail around if im lucky i find a target if not then i dont care much and logout in the openworld and when i come back i will sail  the way i have chosen or sail back to the free harbor. If i buy me a new ship u will see me not much in front of the capital. The only thing that is expansiv for me are the repairs. If i need money ill attack ow ships. Cause they give sometimes better loot. 

If it is fun for u to sail firstrates then i only can say join a Clan help them to build ships. Give newcomers some training in fleetmission or what ever u want. Edit: And Clans will promote you a ship if u need it in most of the cases. Edit end.

You got all time of the world if u play alone . 

Edited April 10, 2018 by Jim Broadreach

[IndianaGeoff]

2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only thing I'm blaming you for is having the tools and not using them.

I totally agree that the game is lacking content for a lot of play styles. But what I take issue with is your contention that your play style should be prioritized over all others, and is one that runs counter to the entire genre of the game that is being discussed here. This is the problem that you've always had and obviously haven't come to terms with.

Does the game need players? Yes. Did we lose players because we don't have always open battles and curated, instant-action junk-food content?  Perhaps a few. But I'd say the game has bigger problems than that, and the developers should continue to work on interacting pieces of the game systems, rather than cater solely to the, "I WANT MY INSTANT ACTION NOW," crowd.  Legends failed for a reason, after all. 

This game (if it's not too late) had better prioritize his play style.  Those are the huge numbers of players who left.  If they can't be steered back or new ones of that type given a track to play... put a fork in her.

[victor]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:41 PM, Liq said:

Yesterday I got about 10 decent fights in the event zone. They COULD be awesome for any group (solos / small or big groups) if they had a proper RoE. A 10 man fleet spawning in a 2v2 20 min into the battle is just nonsense.

Generally I found that the pvp opportunities are much more numerous in the events than camping capitals hoping to get tagged (with a forever open battle.. *choke*

Id say 90+ % of my last week or two battles were located in / near the pvp zones. Isnt that what pve lords always wanted? Players wanting to pvp can pvp each other. Good. Now it just needs a decent RoE to make it perfect.

Ok, your position is clear and fair. But I wonder now why other skilled PVPers - instead of asking for what you are asking here - have been bothering the devs for ages on the forum with their endless requests of a nerf (if not a wipe) of the safe zones.

Edited April 10, 2018 by victor

[jodgi]

Hmmm... @fox2run...

What ever are you up to now?

I've pointed out they've made patrol missions that match the description of what you've asked for since 2016.

Then you complain about replacing ships and getting certain resources. I offer you said resource and two free rather big ships... (radio silence)...

"Young man, are you just here to kick up a fuzz?"

____

The other night I complained on global about not being able to get a fighting ship to Tumbado (within reasonable time, mind you) after I lost the one I had there in the patrol mission. Literally within seconds two guys offer me help (Thanks for the scumbag Wasa, Liq, and thanks for your offer warriorz).

You gotta accept help to get helped, fox!

[IndianaGeoff]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Nah, look back at the arc of his posts... they were always focused on essentially: "Let me join any battle that's open right now and I want my ships for free."  Those players should be playing World of Tanks, or MOBA-style games, which obviously don't mix well with 1.5 hour long battles at age of sail pacing. Legends turned out to be mostly a few of those players that wanted something like that fighting AI bots because the demand for that play style was so low.

I'm not saying that there can't be some content like that. I've argued in the past for the return of small/large/duel battle rooms for lobby-based folks. But we should never compromise the promise of the open world sandbox, and a deep, interactive set of mechanics just to suit what constitutes a small, vocal minority who just want to sail ships of the line, with no risk and no cost.  That's exactly why we have fleet practice rooms.

Your quote does not encompass the point he is making.  It is possible to find things to agree and disagree with.  But the point is, the game ceased being fun for a huge number of players and they left.  The game cannot make it until that problem is figured out and fixed.

You talk all you want about the sandbox... when said box is full of cat poop and devoid of players it is just a litter box.

[Macjimm]

So much hate directed at PvE players.  I like trading and fishing, but  I enjoy a certain amount of risk.   I used to play on the PvE server but now use the Caribbean server all the time.  Trading with players is interesting and having danger areas of conflict adds excitement.  Ridiculing and insulting traders, because they prefer not to fight, won't increase the number of combatants for PvP.   I just don't understand how the presence of some players who want to avoid battles destroys the game.   Just pretend that the carebear is not there, ... in a little safezone.  Or perhaps make a very small safezone very close to the capital.

On 05/04/2018 at 12:26 PM, Archaos said:

In the end it comes down to a simple fact, if there are so many players looking for pure PvP then why are they struggling to find it? Why do they need players that are not interested in PvP to be their prey?  No it would not you would have the same amount of players looking for PvP as you do now, its just that the server population would be lower. So maybe just pretend that all those players PvE'ing in the safe zones do not exist and you will still have as many opponents as you would if they were on the PvE server.

 

On 05/04/2018 at 2:07 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Show me where it says it's only a PvP only server?  Actually the server is named Caribbean.   There is no PvP only server.  This is an open world sand box that has both PvE and PvP element in the game.  Every one thinking it's a purely PvP server only needs to get that out of their heads as this is not a PvP only server.  Never has been and prob never will be.

 

On 05/04/2018 at 8:20 PM, PYR said:

Running with no chance to get out in slow poorly armed, not manouvring ships against fully pvp flipped players is not fun. 

 

On 05/04/2018 at 11:16 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

If you look at just about every MMO out there they have safe zones that is pretty much PvE only with only selective zones for PvP.  That is why they get numbers and they don't force players into the PvP zones. 

 

On 06/04/2018 at 1:43 AM, Cpt Shadow said:

All the bleating about pve and pvp etc ... wake up, yes its the pvp server but the game by its very nature has to include travel such as trading, which to me feels like pve ... if you want it a pure pvp server then scrap the shops, stop the trading and sell ships online and lets play 'world of warships'.   if you want pvp then make it pure pvp  ..... oh yeah forgot they tried that 'legends' .... how did that go?.... ermmmmm 

 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, victor said:

Ok, your position is clear and fair. But I wonder now why other skilled PVPers - instead of asking for what you are asking here - have been bothering the devs for ages on the forum with their endless requests of a nerf (if not a wipe) of the safe zones.

How does Spain hold so many ports I wonder..... They are trading and PvE'ing. As long as RvR has a meaning for players ability to craft, trade and hold space from others - then it should be a priority for any nation to seek to intercept and destroy the enemy nations capability to grind money for the maintenance. Is this reasonable? - no but I didn't make the mechanics. A simple solution is to remove safezones and make missions close instantaneously. This would give the casual PvE'er a way to do his gameplay on a PvP server, and the traders would be at risk which they should be - If the nation that has the ports wants to keep the ports it should be obliged to keep its traders safe so it can pay the upkeeps.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

So much hate directed at PvE players.  I like trading and fishing, but  I enjoy a certain amount of risk.   I used to play on the PvE server but now use the Caribbean server all the time.  Trading with players is interesting and having danger areas of conflict adds excitement.  Ridiculing and insulting traders, because they prefer not to fight, won't increase the number of combatants for PvP.   I just don't understand how the presence of some players who want to avoid battles destroys the game.   Just pretend that the carebear is not there, ... in a little safezone.  Or perhaps make a very small safezone very close to the capital.

 

 

 

 

 

I can't speak for others but I don't "hate" PvE - I just recognize that this IS a PvP server AND PvE and trading has DIRECT affects on economy. AND I recognize that economy and logistics are the prerequisites for RvR - which is a requirement for succesfull trading.

EDIT: And I don't mind traders being afraid to fight - no one has ever won a battle in an indiaman against an experienced PvP'er, which is as it should be - the risk for the trader should be in relation to the rewards. A single traderun pays my indiamans, the next is pure profit and the chance of losing a ship is miniscule. If money and trading is to have any meaning in this game then there has to be risks. And when it's directly affecting a nations ability to hold on to territory then I believe it should be possible for a nation to prevent another nations trade. How does a smaller nation force a larger one to come to terms? - by denying the larger nations access to ressources. How does a larger nation impose its will on a smaller one? - by blockading the enemys points of access.

Who reinvented the convoy system? - the dutch. Why? - Because they were under heavy pressure from the spanish privateers sailing out of Dunkirk in the Spanish Netherlands. Where have the largest battlefleet engagements occured? - the North sea and the channel area. Why? - Because the economies of England and the Dutch were solely dependant on commerce and both countries were at risk of being blockaded by one another in the 17th century. 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Guest

[Slim McSauce]

55 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

So much hate directed at PvE players.  I like trading and fishing, but  I enjoy a certain amount of risk.   I used to play on the PvE server but now use the Caribbean server all the time.  Trading with players is interesting and having danger areas of conflict adds excitement.  Ridiculing and insulting traders, because they prefer not to fight, won't increase the number of combatants for PvP.   I just don't understand how the presence of some players who want to avoid battles destroys the game.   Just pretend that the carebear is not there, ... in a little safezone.  Or perhaps make a very small safezone very close to the capital.

absolutely this. We're looking for pure PVP mechanics not something that has anything to do with traders. Simple fact is combat should be happening around the outmost ports of a territory. Not dead in the middle where we have our PvErs, noobs and people who are in that area for the exact reason of getting away from PVP.

Devs have the power of pvp mission placing, put some where regular PvPers SHOULD be hunting, don't even make it different ROE, just call it a mission and leave the rest up to the player to figure out. Very little objective, see what it does.

 

Edited April 11, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

How does Spain hold so many ports I wonder..... They are trading and PvE'ing. As long as RvR has a meaning for players ability to craft, trade and hold space from others - then it should be a priority for any nation to seek to intercept and destroy the enemy nations capability to grind money for the maintenance. Is this reasonable? - no but I didn't make the mechanics. A simple solution is to remove safezones and make missions close instantaneously. This would give the casual PvE'er a way to do his gameplay on a PvP server, and the traders would be at risk which they should be - If the nation that has the ports wants to keep the ports it should be obliged to keep its traders safe so it can pay the upkeeps.

I still never understand why people keep thinking that safe zones allow people to make lots of money trading. All the big money trade routes require a lot of time spent out in the OW not in safe zones. The traders who do these runs take time to plan their runs and choose their routes so they are least likely to be intercepted. The only issue I see that people can complain about is the ability to get over half way to your destination and then use the tow to port function to get to your destination or to a port in the safe zone (maybe they could change this so that tow to port takes you back to the last port you departed from as it is needed in case people get stuck).

People can seek these traders if they work out where their routes are, but most are too lazy and just want to sit outside the destination ports and wait for them to arrive. I have yet to find any profitable trade route with trade goods that can be done completely in the safe zone, there may be some zones where profit can be made from crafting woods but even then the profit is not from selling to NPC.

Fighting AI makes more money than trading for the time spent and if it is just gold you are after then you may as well just do missions that instantly close rather than attack OW AI fleets. The only advantage of attacking OW AI fleets is the increased chance of loot and this is why so many people farm them.

If you removed safe zones but made missions close instantly you would still have the issue of people getting ganked on their way to/from missions, so you would not have solved the issue for PvE'ers playing on PvP server.

If you really wanted to shake things up then make it so that fighting whether it is PvE or PvP is a money sink and that money can only be made from trading. That way trading becomes very important and it becomes worthwhile protecting traders and keeping their cargoes, while PvE'ers can make their money from selling combat marks and loot and PvP'ers can make their money from selling PvP marks.