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Banished Privateer

Mortar Brigs Overhaul

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 I will list most of the reasons why people don't use mortar brigs besides Port Battles and even in PBs almost no one wants to use them, but we are kind of forced to do so:

  • Mortar Brigs are too slow (any reason why they are the slowest ship in the game? As slow as 1st rates or even worse)
  • Mortar shooting view is very unintuitive. WoT has a very cool "artillery" shooting view:

636175052659891909.jpg

 

Maybe not realistic (just like the free camera and tons of other stuff), but much more enjoyable.

  • Again shooting view, a ship is heeling, giving me a headache when I'm trying to focus on my target and I feel like I'm about to vomit. It's like trying to read a book in a car that's turning all the time.
  • Again shooting view, this bug game into the game maaaany months ago, never fixed. Circles of aim are invisible on land
  • Land terrain. Towers and forts are often "buried" or partially covered by the ground. Just a visual thing, but connected to MB topic I guess.

Underground view:

image.thumb.png.783c49ef7b34a5aec0117d070910ae3d.png

 

Normal view:

image.thumb.png.174f25a438cf554a532becbd5f75ff41.png

 

  • Name of Defenses don't have foreign letters (like Cap Rrançais) and it replaces foreign signs with "?". Also the names of this structures are weird to me, maybe it's just my opinion.

 

image.png.86ec4e62c29e968b16471e1c73a5e308.png

 
"defense 1", I would maybe call it "Tower 1", "Fort 1" etc. or even drop the kinda dull numbering as 1, 2, 3 etc. What about Tower Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta.
 
Discuss, comment, share, hate or like.
Edited by Banished Privateer
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I believe that was the first aiming system of mbrigs in ST and they were so op that it got changed to the current system.

Edited by z4ys
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2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I believe that was the first aiming system of mbrigs in ST and they were so op that it got changed to the current system.

and now MBs are only used in PB. No one wants to be "that guy".

Edited by Banished Privateer

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-1

Historically mortar brigs were only used in sieges and even there had to use days, weeks or months to actually make a breach. As I see it mortars are still OP - hitting a moving ship? - np. Forts in a PB? - great free points!

Atm the best the devs could to to HELP the defenders in a PB is to remove all forts and towers and make all PBs low BR PBs.. And that if nothing else shows how OP the mortar brig is currently.

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33 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

-1

Historically mortar brigs were only used in sieges and even there had to use days, weeks or months to actually make a breach. As I see it mortars are still OP - hitting a moving ship? - np. Forts in a PB? - great free points!

Atm the best the devs could to to HELP the defenders in a PB is to remove all forts and towers and make all PBs low BR PBs.. And that if nothing else shows how OP the mortar brig is currently.

During my 3 years experience, I was never killed by a Mortar Brig and I fought against "best" of them known in the game. I got demasted maybe once or twice and killed dozens of Mortar Brigs. Also speaking about history, not every port had towers and forts to defend them.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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2 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

 Also speaking about history, not every port had towers and forts to defend them.

Agreed - should only be around regional capitals.

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@admin I'd also like to see Mortar Brig taking more skill to use / master with some better aiming mechanic... also do any upgrades other than mortar officer perk, mortar handbook and reload buffs improve the mortars? Nobody seems to know this 100%...

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48 minutes ago, Landsman said:

@admin I'd also like to see Mortar Brig taking more skill to use / master with some better aiming mechanic... also do any upgrades other than mortar officer perk, mortar handbook and reload buffs improve the mortars? Nobody seems to know this 100%...

Stability is more important than reload..

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RN performed extensive operations across the channel, Dunkirk especially, with mortar barges to bring down coastal facilities ( pretty much anything that needs to have a shell lobbed into it ). The gun crews that operated the mortars were not navymen but landlubbers, army folk. They always had a fair strong contingent of brigs and sloops-of-war escorts ( some of them actually cutout some french shipping from ancher up the river mouths ).

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34 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

RN performed extensive operations across the channel, Dunkirk especially, with mortar barges to bring down coastal facilities ( pretty much anything that needs to have a shell lobbed into it ). The gun crews that operated the mortars were not navymen but landlubbers, army folk. They always had a fair strong contingent of brigs and sloops-of-war escorts ( some of them actually cutout some french shipping from ancher up the river mouths ).

Yeah but atm the Mortar brig can aim - shoot - hit and sink 1st rates without many problems.. This was never the intended use nor the practical use for a mortarbrig..

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6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Friendly reminder "Mortar Frigate" is a real historical thing.

Friendly source?

 

Quote

Mortar Brigs are too slow (any reason why they are the slowest ship in the game? As slow as 1st rates or even worse)

Mortar vessels were built like brick shithouses. And the mortars were still too inaccurate to be useful for much besides terrorizing cities anyhow. Pretty much a weapon that navies really wanted to work well, but didn't. Being built like brick shithouses they were often very useful for arctic exploration, though.

So yes, we should never see them outside PBs.

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1 hour ago, Lars Kjaer said:

never the intended use nor the practical use for a mortarbrig

Correct. And in truth they weren't terrific either at their assigned job. Even the bombard frigates were wall smashers.

Did they get extensively used ? No.

Landing parties did perform much better and faster, conquer the place, lit the magazine, get out, one less outpost. They were the "guided intelligent weapons" of the era.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunboat_War#1809-10

I support the idea of mortar brigs being used mainly for port battles, but they did see some other use, both ineffectual and successful.  I also support having more bomb-vessels and ketches in the game.

 

Note - many of the gunboats mentioned there also mounted howitzers

Edited by Sir John
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8 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Yeah but atm the Mortar brig can aim - shoot - hit and sink 1st rates without many problems.. This was never the intended use nor the practical use for a mortarbrig..

It's not easy to hit a ship with a mortar brig unless your being a noob and sitting still.   I have prob sunk two half a dozen 1st rates in PB's with mine but never a frigate.  They become completely useless if you have a dedicated small ship to hunt them.   If your getting hit by a mortar brig in a PB your sitting still and a very predictable path of sail.  Simple solution is don't sail in a  straight line or sit still.....most of the ones I sunk where stuck in irons/bad wind or was supporting or doing a board sitting still.

 

12 hours ago, Landsman said:

@admin I'd also like to see Mortar Brig taking more skill to use / master with some better aiming mechanic... also do any upgrades other than mortar officer perk, mortar handbook and reload buffs improve the mortars? Nobody seems to know this 100%...

 

I run Basic Ballast on mine to improve the heel.   I also run Means of Directing the fire cause it makes your recicle smallers and aim in faster on target.  Reload mods are nice, but normally just open mag and something else helps.   I run the open mag in the past for the catch fire, cause I have blown up next to the light ship chasing me.   I only make them Fir Fir cause they are pretty much dead any way if they get hit so you need all that speed and I toss a Pirate refit on them to help with going up wind to get into position.

Actually bigger ships had Mortars on them and I think at one time we had them on a 1st rate.  I wouldn't mind seeing the 3rd rate having them on for big ship engagements/PB"s since it's basicly a Bellona any way with smaller uper deck guns.

 

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well i have played in many pb as a mortar brig captain, and what i encounter is 4 things:

for the smaller battles the mortar brig is good, but for the big battles we need another ship , the ship is under classed in those battles and underperform in the the big boys theater 

A.the vessel is very slow. in one broadside from a ocean,  the ships sails or shot to pieces and do 48 % with a speed of 4.6 knots first repair is doing almost nothing on  recover speed and actually the ship is out of action because it becomes to slow and food for any ship.

B. the targets are mostly towers and forts on land with white beaches the visor is also harley not visible on land

C. aiming :for aiming and to see that target, it can be a different color, like red for instance., 

D.the targeting system is a little cramped and needs a wider theater  or and also other color on the aiming .

 

we currently have the surprise to become a mortar vessel but is not active as so.

 

so the verdict is:

the mortar brig is too slow to compete in all kind of battles   it needs at least 2 knots extra to catch up with the other fleet members.

the game needs a additional ship (more sail) like the surprise or other similar frigate   kind of ship, to have as a alternative in the port battles to compete and do damage in the battle, it can almost not compete with the equal damage done by other vessels in comparison

A other better target system the visibility of the surroundings is bad , to look only true the spyglass , also the color of the Bombardier is bad

earning for the kills on the forts is a bad and a  big laugh compared with the result of other damage making vessels what is also a  reason people do not want to sail the mortar vessel

sink easy and earn almost nothing,

therefore you have to be a special kind of bread of a captain  to sail this vessel 

Edited by Thonys
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25 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I wouldn't mind seeing the 3rd rate having them on for big ship engagements/PB"s since it's basicly a Bellona any way with smaller uper deck guns.

Mortars on 3rd rate seem like a good way to give the ship a place in game compared to Bellona. Right now I don't see why someone would build a 3rd over a Bellona.

27 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I run Basic Ballast on mine to improve the heel.   I also run Means of Directing the fire cause it makes your recicle smallers and aim in faster on target.

Do you know this for a fact or just feeling? Also do you think it is viable to stack gunnery encyclopedia and means of directing fire to have the buff twice?

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2 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Mortars on 3rd rate seem like a good way to give the ship a place in game compared to Bellona. Right now I don't see why someone would build a 3rd over a Bellona.

Do you know this for a fact or just feeling? Also do you think it is viable to stack gunnery encyclopedia and means of directing fire to have the buff twice?

I have the 3rd rate on my main char cause of the old ship knowledge tree where you had to unlock it to move up into the SOL.  I just been lazy to open up the Bellona on that char.

But yah I know the ship knowlege and mods that effect accuracy works on the Mortar brig to.  I can put it side by side my other char with a mortar brig and they both have the handbook and ship knowledge morter handbook but only one has the Means of Directing fire and it aims faster and has a smaller circle. I haven't tested the Gunnery cause it's only on my main, but I know some of the others like the Spring Bed that reduce your recicle seem to help over not running them.  The set up I run I can get aimed on a Tower and than never move my hand and pretty much all balls hit at the same time whiles others are getting 2-4 hits.

 

Oh and while I don't mind if the red dot didn't return, but we need to either have the red dot for shore or be able to see the dang recicle when aiming at towers and forts.  We can see it while aiming at ships why can't we see them for land?  So to fix this I would say until it's fixed bring back the red dot?  Other wise you do like we have been is have a spotter for when shooting (kinda more real).  I just hate it when I bump my mouse and have to respot/aim all over again cause I have no clue where the circle is aiming at on land.

 

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8 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Correct. And in truth they weren't terrific either at their assigned job. Even the bombard frigates were wall smashers.

Did they get extensively used ? No.

Landing parties did perform much better and faster, conquer the place, lit the magazine, get out, one less outpost. They were the "guided intelligent weapons" of the era.

nevertheless we may not forget mortar vessels exist.... and had there own spectre in the theater of war

just like for instance:  fireships ..(just to keep it on the water)

if there is no land or only high cliffs  , landing parties are useless at that point  :)) 

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14 hours ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed - should only be around regional capitals.

not quite

if it is around capitals its even worse,... you had multiple forts at capitals  for example willemstad had several big forts  and many towers

and in the game it is just not that many

Edited by Thonys
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31 minutes ago, Jesper Dahl said:

If anything mortars needs to be removed or forts added mortars.

NO.

and forts have only cannons..(big ones and many) :)

fort-ticonderoga.jpg

 

Edited by Thonys

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