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Patch 22: Patrol BR limits, Grape fix and Planking mechanics improvements

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I like these changes, anything that increases the likelihood of more balanced battles is worth a try. Probably seen as going against the whole point of the patrols but I see the inability to leave the battle as problematic. Forcing 10 ships to chase down a single enemy just so they can leave seems pointless. I don't really like mechanics that prevent players from doing what they want to do generally, in this case disengaging (leaving the battle) when the odds are hopeless. This might be dissuading people from taking part in the first place. Promoting new players to not be afraid of losing ships is great, but losing your ship when you are hopelessly outnumbered or outgunned (or both) isn't much fun and I wonder if that promotes pvp. New players don't learn much from that other than: 'only sail in big groups'. This leads to another possibility, that patrols seem to me to be the perfect place to experiment with 'free for all' (no red and green you can shoot who you like) battles where you have your own flag and let the battle develop according to player, clan and nation loyalties and dynamics. It might be a bit chaotic but would be fun! Perhaps it could be limited to only one 3rd party or just let it degenerate into a multi-national 'king of the ring' style slugfest? Why the hello kitty not? I'd join that battle.

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2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Ok say that is true now. Will it be true with 1k pop? 2k? You will need screeners in the future when nations can put up many times their PB fleet (some deep water ports having less than 3k BR, which is less than 10 large PB ships. Just to get those 10 guys in you will need 2-3x that for any given action. Lets not get into if we happen to pull some crazy number like 10k people on the server, and you'll have to have 100+ man screening fleets for 10-25 man PB fleets.

Problem is screening isn't an integral part of rvr, it's almost an unintended feature of OW. (for a time people didn't think screening should be a part of the game, it got in the way of fair PB fights)

There are no rewards for screeners, no recognition for your effort, you're pretty much a pawn who's goal is to delay the PB fleet, not necessarily fight.
Personally I refuse to screen, not because I don't think it helps but it goes against what I want to do in NA which is fight and get rewarded. I feel bad for every person who has to screen, it feels even worse trying to justify sending people to screening fleet. I sit in PB, collect my lord protector and own a port; you screen, hold in the enemy fleet for an hour and get nothing.

I think that's why people are just so tired of RVR, there's no room for anyone besides the elite 15 guys, sure they can still use you for screening and general cannon fodder, but don't expect to have any fun or get anything from your huge commitment besides an o7.

 


 

Switch nations or create the pbs yourself. The culture that allows those same guys to do all the work and pbs is your faulf. 

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2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I feel bad for every person who has to screen, it feels even worse trying to justify sending people to screening fleet.

I prefer to screen every chance I'm not needed in a port battle, why? Because the fights are dynamic and unpredictable.

I agree that PvP in the vicinity of an upcoming or active port battle should grant Lord Protector or some other rewards, but don't bag on screening. That's where you get some of the great open world fights!

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2 minutes ago, Hullabatrash said:

I like these changes, anything that increases the likelihood of more balanced battles is worth a try. Probably seen as going against the whole point of the patrols but I see the inability to leave the battle as problematic. Forcing 10 ships to chase down a single enemy just so they can leave seems pointless. I don't really like mechanics that prevent players from doing what they want to do generally, in this case disengaging (leaving the battle) when the odds are hopeless. This might be dissuading people from taking part in the first place. Promoting new players to not be afraid of losing ships is great, but losing your ship when you are hopelessly outnumbered or outgunned (or both) isn't much fun and I wonder if that promotes pvp. New players don't learn much from that other than: 'only sail in big groups'. This leads to another possibility, that patrols seem to me to be the perfect place to experiment with 'free for all' (no red and green you can shoot who you like) battles where you have your own flag and let the battle develop according to player, clan and nation loyalties and dynamics. It might be a bit chaotic but would be fun! Perhaps it could be limited to only one 3rd party or just let it degenerate into a multi-national 'king of the ring' style slugfest? Why the hello kitty not? I'd join that battle.

Uff, maybe it‘s really time to leave NA ... 

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Screening fleets tend to fight each other. Many times I've sat in an empty PB while the screeners outside are having an epic 20 v 20 1st rate battle. Some of my best Naval action battles have been in screening fleets and you can get a ton of PVP marks

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4 minutes ago, Hullabatrash said:

This leads to another possibility, that patrols seem to me to be the perfect place to experiment with 'free for all' (no red and green you can shoot who you like) battles where you have your own flag and let the battle develop according to player, clan and nation loyalties and dynamics.

Bring it! I've been advocating for this for a long time... 

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10 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Ok say that is true now. Will it be true with 1k pop? 2k? You will need screeners in the future when nations can put up many times their PB fleet (some deep water ports having less than 3k BR, which is less than 10 large PB ships. Just to get those 10 guys in you will need 2-3x that for any given action. Lets not get into if we happen to pull some crazy number like 10k people on the server, and you'll have to have 100+ man screening fleets for 10-25 man PB fleets.

Problem is screening isn't an integral part of rvr, it's almost an unintended feature of OW. (for a time people didn't think screening should be a part of the game, it got in the way of fair PB fights)

There are no rewards for screeners, no recognition for your effort, you're pretty much a pawn who's goal is to delay the PB fleet, not necessarily fight.
Personally I refuse to screen, not because I don't think it helps but it goes against what I want to do in NA which is fight and get rewarded. I feel bad for every person who has to screen, it feels even worse trying to justify sending people to screening fleet. I sit in PB, collect my lord protector and own a port; you screen, hold in the enemy fleet for an hour and get nothing.

I think that's why people are just so tired of RVR, there's no room for anyone besides the elite 15 guys, sure they can still use you for screening and general cannon fodder, but don't expect to have any fun or get anything from your huge commitment besides an o7.

Fresh eyed recruits excited to bite into RVR are sent to screen, and will likely never see a proper battle or rewards for their time and effort.
Some do enjoy just being there to help, but others you can tell expected a lot more from conquest.

 


 

Screening is actually a very fun part of NA if done right and the days that you hold someone in battle with 5 times less BR are gone. Nowadays you just destroy the portbattlegroup with screeners because the PB fleet is tied to a BR limit while you are not.

Its the fault of many nations that screening has a bad reputation. Screening should allways target to kill and win battles because this is how people enjoy screening itself which attracts more players to do it aswell as it is keeping players to do screening. If you only suicidescreen you can see numbers of your screeningfleet getting lower qnd lower until you dont have them anymore.

I'm realy looking foward to a more populated server with plenty of actions. A few changes/motivations are needed again for RvR but the rest is getting better even though I think BR of patrolzones is too high because they are still 1st rate slugfests

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16 minutes ago, Hullabatrash said:

Screening fleets tend to fight each other. Many times I've sat in an empty PB while the screeners outside are having an epic 20 v 20 1st rate battle. Some of my best Naval action battles have been in screening fleets and you can get a ton of PVP marks

I'm sure you've also sat in an empty screening fleet while the attackers are fighting 25v25 in the PB.

Point is that people don't do RVR for a reason, just because you've eaten the crud for however long and acquired the taste doesn't mean everyone else will. Take a fresh player and send him to a PB, he will be jaded for life because the odds of the Pb/screening being enjoyable are so against you.

This is how we lost one of the biggest YTers naval action had recently. It wasn't even a bad PB, RVR itself just isn't good enough for most people, hence why OW pvp and patrol zones are much more popular

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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so if you are getting tagged in a 2v1 1st rate battle in hispaniola patrol, you can still excpect the cowards to join in on the bigger br side to make it 10v1 if it dont exceed the 8k limit?

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

nice patch but RIP rvr

I don't see how RvR would be RiP. Even with current events we had a lot of RvR recently. It's about port control, larger cooperation which you don't have in patrol zones, operations in OW (how to get to port without getting screened), and different mechanic. RvR battles are commanded by two commanders* , which is a different animal than a mix of nations in patrol events.


*(that is if one side is not commanded eg. by a frantic black chicken in that given moment)

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

And with 15 people I would conquer everything in NA

You can always join Prussia. We have some people. One doesn't have an eye, another lacks a leg, two sail only in frigates and one only tacks clockwise. Two of them can be bothered to make hostility, but only every second day. Not everyone speak english. We should be able to scramble 15 people in prime time though... We could use someone who would help us conquer everything :P 

 

jk, please don't join ;) Sweden needs you :)

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Nice patch for grape and angles but i have a question....if the objective is improve this small patrol area for PvP, why we have an OW with thousand kilometers?

i think that in a OW game with a small population this event make useful the rest of the area (90% of sank in combatnews are in the PvP area), but this is my opinion

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Just now, SirValer said:

Nice patch for grape and angles but i have a question....if the objective is improve this small patrol area for PvP, why we have an OW with thousand kilometers?

i think that in a OW game with a small population this event make useful the rest of the area (90% of sank in combatnews are in the PvP area), but this is my opinion

This is an MMO, missions/quest are prevalent for creating content.

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17 minutes ago, vazco said:

I don't see how RvR would be RiP. Even with current events we had a lot of RvR recently. It's about port control, larger cooperation which you don't have in patrol zones, operations in OW (how to get to port without getting screened), and different mechanic. RvR battles are commanded by two commanders* , which is a different animal than a mix of nations in patrol events.


*(that is if one side is not commanded eg. by a frantic black chicken in that given moment)

There is no active war or something on the server just some single portbattles to get pvp. RvR right now is dead, you can conquer stuff but there is no reason to do it. You either have the ressource already or dont want it, you dont get anything from a pb except VMs you dont need because you already get them.

Maybe prussia is able to motivate people to do hostility to get a battle similar to what they have in the Patrol zone but most others can't. Sweden is or was considered a zerg but the most people we had at hostility in Nippes was 5 and in Bahia Escosesa it was 3.

Maybe only sweden is dead again I don't know. enjoy your RvR (last PB was Samana for you right?)

Sweden doesn't realy need me btw since there is noone joining actions we plan days ahead anyway.

In my reality prussia should go for cartagena. Right now you guys are the strongest RvR nation. Sweden only won in Samana because we used the new meta on a big scale first. (maybe you could even say we exploited the OP thickness)

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20 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

This is an MMO, missions/quest are prevalent for creating content.

This, although I will add they should have meaning to the larger game.

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@admin wouldnt it be better to have it as the br roof is 8k or the br of the fleet in the pulling circle as you wrote, but if its below you can only reinforce with up to 2x the br over the opponent?

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Looks good.

But joining timers should be reduced to 10-15mins. It is anoying when several full health ships enter your battle at minute 25.

 

Also, make something for RvR. Reduce taxes, give inmediate rewards for succesful PB, make regions matter more now... whatever but please dont let RvR die.

Edited by Intrepido
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3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

What is the perfect angle reference? 0 or 90??

Must be 90° since "42lb wont penetrate Surprise at 15 degrees with ease."

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It's nice to see Prussia as the new hot nation to be in and you guys are all about PBs now, but no one else really cares.  Just like Russia was the hot nation at the start of the merge and Sweden before that....things will get boring and people will move on.

RVR is basically dead.  Ports don't matter anymore, so why bother.  Other than some fun shallows fights I personally have zero interest in it and I love doing PBs.  While hostility isn't really difficult now, it was tweaked just enough to be a little annoying now that you can't go in there and power through it with 1st rates vs 4ths.  It's meh.  

Take rediii's suggestion and go hit Carta.  It's a good way to get their vassal states of Denmark and Britain against you and you'll get plenty more content.

 
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3 hours ago, rediii said:

 A few changes/motivations are needed again for RvR but the rest is getting better even though I think BR of patrolzones is too high because they are still 1st rate slugfests

PBs have been dead since the introduction of the new victory mark system. They are only a few ports each clan/nation is ready to defend.

As for the BR limit of the patrol zone... it's even less relevant for the night crew as not many players come in big enough group to fight.

Edited by Louis Garneray
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5 minutes ago, ChristenTrash said:

RVR is basically dead.  Ports don't matter anymore, so why bother.

This is the weirdest part of what must be the sandbox mentality(?). Why isn't the bragging rights or fun fighting motivation enough? Would you need extra synthetic motivation to endure PvE hostility grind? Do you need to get something the other guy is denied?

I'm not teasing, it's just that EVERY game I've played has had no other motivation for PvP than bragging rights and fun. I think I get it, but then I don't.

I burned out on the second WoT campaign. You could say too much fighting combined with a stringent fighting schedule, not entirely unlike PB timers. For me it was too much of a good thing and that is not how I understand your comment. 

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