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TheLoneWolf

Increase the daily number of tows to pvp zones

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The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

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I'd be fine with having the tow to port max set from 1 to 3, and you get 1 back a day. So if you don't use your tow to port for one day it will carry over and you have two the next day.

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39 minutes ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

We are still some people who prefers OW hunting, please do not do this.. Our content has been hurt by the PvP zones enough already. If you do this we'll be stuck hunting nothing but traders.

The way the battles in the PvP zones work is something that should have belonged to NA Legends - they might as well have taken away the OW with the introduction of the new PvP zones. The PvP zone has way too many unrealistic features that promotes ill-advised tactics and foolish behavior that you otherwise wouldn't use in OW.

Features include:

  • Unrealistic shrinking ring of mass destruction.
  • Impossible to get away if your ship is badly damaged.
  • "Never-ending" (Way too long) join timer that allows your friend to sail half-way across the caribbean to support you.

I'm not saying that PvP zones are bad for the game - but they have taken content away from people like myself. I just hope that this new feature will keep more players in-game and thus encourage more people to play in the OW and get away from their "comfort zones" eg.: PvP zone/PvE zones.

EDIT: In regards to repairs.. I do not see any reason why players using the PvP zones should be given cheaper AI crafted repairs when the rest of us do not. Do not take content away from the crafters please.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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#NoToTow.

There is still a ow beside pvp-circus and safezones and it's not an issue to supply most of the free ports with ships and repairs. Tumbado has usually a good stock of repairs - although expensive, but that's only the compensation for the traders risk to haul them there.

You could easily open outposts in several freeports and buy ai ships for the patrol or tow one there per day if ya insist. But excessive towing per day is only lame. That's still a sailing game, goddammit!

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4 minutes ago, Aster said:

As much fun as it sounds sailing boats afk for hours everyday. It doesn't.

Thank god we have NA Legends! ;) towing ships around is generally a bad idea, and one tow per day is enough - we need more ships in OW, not fewer.

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9 minutes ago, Aster said:

As much fun as it sounds sailing boats afk for hours everyday. It doesn't.

wouldnt be afk sailing with 1500 players online for example

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Just now, trashiiii said:

wouldnt be afk sailing with 1500 players online for example

which we would need players for

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3 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

Stuff like this happens when OW and Arena gets mixed and therefore I say the current patrol mission compromise NA. In its current state its a NAL feature.

Edited by z4ys
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I don't think Tumbado's issue was location for the most part.  First off it was a Sunday so not as many folks get on.  The second I know a lot of folks wanted to go out there in US prime time but a certain nation had a group of pretty much all SOL's ganking anything that moved when most folks go into there just with frigates.  You loose interest real fast when you see a team doing that.  It was the same way with the old PvP cirlces.  One team or the other would show up with large numbers and high tier ships only and every one else just stops showing up.  You want more fights tone down your ship selection to frigates.  Honestly think the events should be limited to ships below 3rd rate or even none SOL's.   

With that though I do think these ports need to be spawned with more frigates and light ships (for the shallow events) in ports around those areas.  We where having fun but folks where running out of ships and cannons in that area along with repairs to jump right back into the fight.

As for repairs in Shroud?  That was folks making a profit on the events. I know folks that hauled repairs down just to make a buck in those ports.  So if you want to make some profit than do the same.  

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3 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

We are still some people who prefers OW hunting, please do not do this.. Our content has been hurt by the PvP zones enough already. If you do this we'll be stuck hunting nothing but traders.

First off: I'm not trying to be provocative, I am  actually interested in the answer. :)

 What do you like about OW hunting that you cannot get out of PvP in the Patrol zones? 

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Let's truly be honest here: PvP events as they've been implemented here, with their "special" RoE, is nothing more than an arena-based, Legends-light piece of content. It's junk food. And while it might be entertaining, and have its place, relying on them daily is a huge crutch for those of us who want meaningful, interesting and diverse sets of PvP interactions.

This is not the content that PvP'ers who want the OW game to succeed have been asking for. It is purely asymmetric while we need diversity that includes both consensual and non-consensual PvP opportunities. Patrol zones should be dynamic and contain no RoE not present on the OW. Player-generated PvP content is needed desperately outside of the limited RvR mechanics.

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4 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

This will get abused by alt-farmers, I'm sure you know... :rolleyes:

At best we should just know where the event will be every day of the week.

Edited by koiz
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34 minutes ago, Kpt Lautenschlaeger said:

First off: I'm not trying to be provocative, I am  actually interested in the answer. :)

 What do you like about OW hunting that you cannot get out of PvP in the Patrol zones? 

It's a fair question, I'll try to be as thorough as possible to avoid confusion:

The primary reason I play this game and not another sailing game is for the simulator aspect – there is no other game on the market capable of representing sailing in the 1700s as accurate as NA and I therefore consider it to be the best Age of Sail game available. The only other game I’ve played and enjoyed as much as this is the good old Age of Sail II.

You are likely part of the community that plays the game as another CoD, or Counterstrike type of game where quick battles with respawning close to the action is considered good gameplay. I’m not interested in ruining the experience of players enjoying this type of gameplay – but I don’t want it to come at the expense of my way of playing or the original game philosophy. The game is built-up around the Open World and Sandbox mechanics. The PvP zone is, just like @Wraith and I mentioned earlier; a thing that belongs in a tournament style type of game like NA legends.

The PvP zone is basically a “legal PvP-mark farming zone”. This ruins the economy for players doing OW hunting. We now have to go back to PvE to finance our activities…. Allowing free tows would destroy it for us completely.

The concept of a PvP zone ruins the immersion because we all know that there was no daily designated PvP zone in the Caribbean – it’s not realistic and for some of us, it’s not interesting to go there and fight with cheap 1st rates. I personally hate sailing anything above 4th rates apart from the Bellona. Furthermore, the rules set up for the battles in the PvP zone are unrealistic and immersion breaking – like I said in my previous post it promotes ill-advised tactics and foolish behavior that you otherwise wouldn't use in OW. I do not remember Nelson trying to push his enemy outside the circle of death at the Nile or Trafalgar. I also do not recall the Constitution turning around to fight the HMS Aeolus, Africa, Belvidera, Guerriere, and Shannon to deal as much damage as possible in 1812 – Cpt. Hull escaped using clever techniques that gave him the advantage in the chase.

Just an OW PvPers opinion on the new PvP-zone.. I’m not claiming that I know the right way to go with this game, but I believe free tows to be a huge mistake.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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@Percival Merewether Thank you sir, for giving a substantial and well-argued answer.

While I do enjoy quick-fix arena type games (such as NAL will provide in due time, I'm sure), they are a crutch for when my playing time is restricted. Which it is more than I like, I'll be the first to admit.  :P

My most enjoyable games were the ones that happened in the OW, and that were well-matched one way or the other. That does not necessarily mean that ships and skills have to be matched, I had some very fun games running and dodging in a trader to reach the forts or the time limit. I guess the reason for this is that the engagements were imbued with meaning beyond the engagement itself (keeping  a ship liked or needed, getting to a particular place on time, etc.). As such I whole-heartedly agree with @Wraith saying "Player-generated PvP content is needed desperately outside of the limited RvR mechanics."

The one thing that occasionally spoils the OW for me is being forced into battles that aren't fun. Please note that this is not equal to "that I cannot win", but rather to "that I have no agency whatsoever in". "Ganks", some would call them.

I think that sometimes in our discussions, we focus too much on limiting players that exploit mechanics, rather than looking into how we can encourage gentlemanly behaviour. I wouldn't expect a group of six who caught me alone for being stupid, to offer a 1-on-1. But restraining yourself to a 3-on-1 that both sides get more out of, that I'd like to see even more of. And I don't think we can get there by changing the RoEs, that is something playerbase culture needs to uphold.

If you would pardon the ramble.

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I don't think Tumbado's issue was location for the most part.  First off it was a Sunday so not as many folks get on.  The second I know a lot of folks wanted to go out there in US prime time but a certain nation had a group of pretty much all SOL's ganking anything that moved when most folks go into there just with frigates.  You loose interest real fast when you see a team doing that.  It was the same way with the old PvP cirlces.  One team or the other would show up with large numbers and high tier ships only and every one else just stops showing up.  You want more fights tone down your ship selection to frigates.  Honestly think the events should be limited to ships below 3rd rate or even none SOL's.   

With that though I do think these ports need to be spawned with more frigates and light ships (for the shallow events) in ports around those areas.  We where having fun but folks where running out of ships and cannons in that area along with repairs to jump right back into the fight.

A night timer like you I guess, I went in with my Indefatigable. I met a few people. Most of them were in trashy frigate or basic cutter at the Tumbado event.

I saw Pipolanoix (French) in a 1st rate alone, hoping to get a fight vs a bunch of people as he used to do at KPR  but when I left he was still waiting. On the French side, he was the only one in 1st rate.

There were a mix of ships  on the French side: a couple of 2nd rate, everything else was 3rd or 4th rate. We were no more than 7 or 8 people all together.

1 hour ago, koiz said:

 

This will get abused by alt-farmers, I'm sure you know... :rolleyes:

At best we should just know where the event will be every day of the week.

It doesn't need to be abused by alt-farmer since you only get 10 pvp marks per event and you can get your 10 pvp just by fighting AI ships.
The intend of the devs is to create pvp.

Unfortunately not many players at night time are interested in real pvp during event or open world. Port battles are dead since there is no more race for ports.

Fortunately for the EU players it seems that the event is working better. They seem to enjoy real fights with big ship fleet and they are not afraid to loose their big ship.

I think the most enjoyable battle we had in the past week for the French night crew was our little 25 vs 12  north east of Fort Morant on Thursday evening.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/11ak2ux.jpg

So content is hard to find lately. And when we finally find something it's most of the time never enough or good quality. In the end, pvpers will leave the game for lack of content making it even worst than what it is.

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5 hours ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

That's still a sailing game, goddammit!

 

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

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1 hour ago, Kpt Lautenschlaeger said:

I think that sometimes in our discussions, we focus too much on limiting players that exploit mechanics, rather than looking into how we can encourage gentlemanly behaviour. I wouldn't expect a group of six who caught me alone for being stupid, to offer a 1-on-1. But restraining yourself to a 3-on-1 that both sides get more out of, that I'd like to see even more of. And I don't think we can get there by changing the RoEs, that is something playerbase culture needs to uphold.

If you would pardon the ramble.

That's something we discuss a lot in the French Nation night crew.

Actually there are only 2 pvp zone during our time.

One is the obvious KPR. The other one is the US coast.

The result: the Brits won't engage in battles most of the time (and I'm sure for many good reasons: not enough players motivated to fight). We come in groups... and we have tried different size as well as type of ships.  If we go in small group of 2 or 3 it might happen that we get a fight but it will be asymmetrical (and it's in the nature of the game, we try to come with lighter ships and they defend with heavier build) and it will usually end up with us sinking. If we come in more substantial group we won't get any pvp.

As for the US coast... it's a very long way to get anything. We have to go to Charleston which is a long sail from Ays. So it does require some motivated people with a good amount of free time. We know that we can't take anything bigger than a 2nd rate and most of our ships are usually 4th and 3rd rate with the occasional 5th rate for tagging.

Once we are at Charleston we usually have to wait a good amount of time for the Americans to muster a fleet.  And they won't usually engage in a fight unless they have a good BR advantage. And if we are unlucky to survive the fight we'll have to sail back to Ays. :D:D

 

 

Edited by Louis Garneray

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11 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

A night timer like you I guess, I went in with my Indefatigable. I met a few people. Most of them were in trashy frigate or basic cutter at the Tumbado event.

I saw Pipolanoix (French) in a 1st rate alone, hoping to get a fight vs a bunch of people as he used to do at KPR  but when I left he was still waiting. On the French side, he was the only one in 1st rate.

There were a mix of ships  on the French side: a couple of 2nd rate, everything else was 3rd or 4th rate. We were no more than 7 or 8 people all together.

It doesn't need to be abused by alt-farmer since you only get 10 pvp marks per event and you can get your 10 pvp just by fighting AI ships.
The intend of the devs is to create pvp.

Unfortunately not many players at night time are interested in real pvp during event or open world. Port battles are dead since there is no more race for ports.

Fortunately for the EU players it seems that the event is working better. They seem to enjoy real fights with big ship fleet and they are not afraid to loose their big ship.

I think the most enjoyable battle we had in the past week for the French night crew was our little 25 vs 12  north east of Fort Morant on Thursday evening.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/11ak2ux.jpg

So content is hard to find lately. And when we finally find something it's most of the time never enough or good quality. In the end, pvpers will leave the game for lack of content making it even worst than what it is.

Not to point fingers at anyone, but if you know that having concentrated a majority of PvP-oriented players during a current timezone in a single nation makes it hard to find PvP then perhaps you've shot yourselves in the foot?  This is exacerbated when you insist on bringing out all your toys when any potential competitors (the majority of other nations with night time players) are reluctant to risk their "big ships," it seems like you'd change your behavior if you want halfway even fights?

I'm speaking on behalf of many outside of VCO, mind you, because we choose to not give any content to Crowny and crew because of the overwhelming level of toxicity he's brought to bear on the game (not to mention he really doesn't want even fights, just to win at all costs). But if you're truly interested in getting other U.S. players, and other U.S. primetime factions out to PvP, I'd suggest taking a cue from @TommyShelby and the OCEAN crew from way back and challenging yourselves to be competitive in smaller ships and smaller numbers than those who you wish to fight. 

Encourage players like they did through your own actions and maybe the consensual PvP part of the game will grow instead of be propped up by silly crutches like game-y, arena-based PvP events more suited to Legends than the OW.

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7 minutes ago, Trashlock said:

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

Sorry Sir, to contradict to you: That's NAL

NA is combat in sailing ships AND interaction in an open world

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14 minutes ago, Trashlock said:

 

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

What supposed to be the difference between NA and NAL?

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15 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm speaking on behalf of many outside of VCO, mind you, because we choose to not give any content to Crowny and crew because of the overwhelming level of toxicity he's brought to bear on the game (not to mention he really doesn't want even fights, just to win at all costs). But if you're truly interested in getting other U.S. players, and other U.S. primetime factions out to PvP, I'd suggest taking a cue from @TommyShelby and the OCEAN crew from way back and challenging yourselves to be competitive in smaller ships and smaller numbers than those who you wish to fight.

We could have a constructive discussion right... but no you prefer to make it about KoC.

There you have the proof that KoC fight and sink. On that fight we almost had an even one after discussing with HachiRoku... We agreed on a fleet size etc, but we got 2 Brits random joining (one was Swedish: ZhouSTX is usually salty when encountering us).

AB2186C1169901710A13CF938A88522BBD708CC6

or that one vs the US:

5A8813AADB8D733CF23CFD697F06659589DEDF89

You could also have read what I put earlier... about us trying to go fight in smaller ships. If we go in 5th rate we'll get ganked by a bigger fleet 100% of the time.

Edited by Louis Garneray

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So I am a carebear. Please tell us numbers, before Patrol Missions, 500 online players, how many of them doing the OW Pvp, excluding gangked players and traders. What is the percentage?

So why shape the game for the fewer elite, as they post more here does not change the fact that they are minority and will always be.

And how many people knowing and willingly joined patrol missions? So if you elite pvpers and gankers want to farm other people, you sir still need numbers, to sustain your business. Imagine what happens when you have 5000 online instead of 500. Oh on the other hand when it is 5000, there will be a competition. May be it is not what you desire?

So it has been a succesful experiment to introduce Patrol Missions. What needs to be done is to improve it. May be 3-4 times a week, so the elite can still farm others, keep milking pvp marks, or reduce prize to 5 pvp marks plus the marks you get for sinking others.

For months I could not find someone from my clan to do pvp, but yesterday we were 7 I guess. So it was super fun, lots of people coming to mission, never seen shroud cay that crowded. Good thing with mission you do not need a ship worth 1 to 10 million gold, you can buy a ship for 50k plus cannons and some repairs, you are set for fun. I was ganked most of the time , but I tried to stay alive for long time despite outnumbered and yes I enjoyed it, I sinked ships. 

So people were looking for content and this is a content, we need numbers, this will get numbers. Please make more missions like this including Pve boss fights out of safe waters again :)

I disagree with “ this is an alpha do not care for numbers” idea. Game has sold hundered thousand copies? Where are these people? 

If 100k sold, 500 players online, when game is released you are gonna sell 1 million to have 5k online?

 

We never want arcade, we never want basic mechanics, but content for everybody not only for people who spend 6 hours for NA everyday. Who buys a book for 300 pvp mark for 6 percent speed in OW, pls do not cry for realism to keep securing your position as elite, and does not care about the game really, only cares his current position as only way to preserve it to keep the game as it was.

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