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Increase the daily number of tows to pvp zones


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The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

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39 minutes ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

We are still some people who prefers OW hunting, please do not do this.. Our content has been hurt by the PvP zones enough already. If you do this we'll be stuck hunting nothing but traders.

The way the battles in the PvP zones work is something that should have belonged to NA Legends - they might as well have taken away the OW with the introduction of the new PvP zones. The PvP zone has way too many unrealistic features that promotes ill-advised tactics and foolish behavior that you otherwise wouldn't use in OW.

Features include:

  • Unrealistic shrinking ring of mass destruction.
  • Impossible to get away if your ship is badly damaged.
  • "Never-ending" (Way too long) join timer that allows your friend to sail half-way across the caribbean to support you.

I'm not saying that PvP zones are bad for the game - but they have taken content away from people like myself. I just hope that this new feature will keep more players in-game and thus encourage more people to play in the OW and get away from their "comfort zones" eg.: PvP zone/PvE zones.

EDIT: In regards to repairs.. I do not see any reason why players using the PvP zones should be given cheaper AI crafted repairs when the rest of us do not. Do not take content away from the crafters please.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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#NoToTow.

There is still a ow beside pvp-circus and safezones and it's not an issue to supply most of the free ports with ships and repairs. Tumbado has usually a good stock of repairs - although expensive, but that's only the compensation for the traders risk to haul them there.

You could easily open outposts in several freeports and buy ai ships for the patrol or tow one there per day if ya insist. But excessive towing per day is only lame. That's still a sailing game, goddammit!

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3 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

Stuff like this happens when OW and Arena gets mixed and therefore I say the current patrol mission compromise NA. In its current state its a NAL feature.

Edited by z4ys
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I don't think Tumbado's issue was location for the most part.  First off it was a Sunday so not as many folks get on.  The second I know a lot of folks wanted to go out there in US prime time but a certain nation had a group of pretty much all SOL's ganking anything that moved when most folks go into there just with frigates.  You loose interest real fast when you see a team doing that.  It was the same way with the old PvP cirlces.  One team or the other would show up with large numbers and high tier ships only and every one else just stops showing up.  You want more fights tone down your ship selection to frigates.  Honestly think the events should be limited to ships below 3rd rate or even none SOL's.   

With that though I do think these ports need to be spawned with more frigates and light ships (for the shallow events) in ports around those areas.  We where having fun but folks where running out of ships and cannons in that area along with repairs to jump right back into the fight.

As for repairs in Shroud?  That was folks making a profit on the events. I know folks that hauled repairs down just to make a buck in those ports.  So if you want to make some profit than do the same.  

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3 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

We are still some people who prefers OW hunting, please do not do this.. Our content has been hurt by the PvP zones enough already. If you do this we'll be stuck hunting nothing but traders.

First off: I'm not trying to be provocative, I am  actually interested in the answer. :)

 What do you like about OW hunting that you cannot get out of PvP in the Patrol zones? 

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4 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

The pvp zones are proving to be a success in certain areas that are near capitals and popular spots like La Tortue and La Navasse.  The pvp zone near Tumbado was less popular and there were less people there.  I suspect one of the problems is getting ships and repairs there.  There should be an unlimited number of tows to the free town beside the daily pvp zone to encourage participation.  Also, Tortue, Tumbado and Aves should offer repairs the same way they are available in Shroud.  This will further increase participation in the pvp zones.   

This will get abused by alt-farmers, I'm sure you know... :rolleyes:

At best we should just know where the event will be every day of the week.

Edited by koiz
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34 minutes ago, Kpt Lautenschlaeger said:

First off: I'm not trying to be provocative, I am  actually interested in the answer. :)

 What do you like about OW hunting that you cannot get out of PvP in the Patrol zones? 

It's a fair question, I'll try to be as thorough as possible to avoid confusion:

The primary reason I play this game and not another sailing game is for the simulator aspect – there is no other game on the market capable of representing sailing in the 1700s as accurate as NA and I therefore consider it to be the best Age of Sail game available. The only other game I’ve played and enjoyed as much as this is the good old Age of Sail II.

You are likely part of the community that plays the game as another CoD, or Counterstrike type of game where quick battles with respawning close to the action is considered good gameplay. I’m not interested in ruining the experience of players enjoying this type of gameplay – but I don’t want it to come at the expense of my way of playing or the original game philosophy. The game is built-up around the Open World and Sandbox mechanics. The PvP zone is, just like @Wraith and I mentioned earlier; a thing that belongs in a tournament style type of game like NA legends.

The PvP zone is basically a “legal PvP-mark farming zone”. This ruins the economy for players doing OW hunting. We now have to go back to PvE to finance our activities…. Allowing free tows would destroy it for us completely.

The concept of a PvP zone ruins the immersion because we all know that there was no daily designated PvP zone in the Caribbean – it’s not realistic and for some of us, it’s not interesting to go there and fight with cheap 1st rates. I personally hate sailing anything above 4th rates apart from the Bellona. Furthermore, the rules set up for the battles in the PvP zone are unrealistic and immersion breaking – like I said in my previous post it promotes ill-advised tactics and foolish behavior that you otherwise wouldn't use in OW. I do not remember Nelson trying to push his enemy outside the circle of death at the Nile or Trafalgar. I also do not recall the Constitution turning around to fight the HMS Aeolus, Africa, Belvidera, Guerriere, and Shannon to deal as much damage as possible in 1812 – Cpt. Hull escaped using clever techniques that gave him the advantage in the chase.

Just an OW PvPers opinion on the new PvP-zone.. I’m not claiming that I know the right way to go with this game, but I believe free tows to be a huge mistake.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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@Percival Merewether Thank you sir, for giving a substantial and well-argued answer.

While I do enjoy quick-fix arena type games (such as NAL will provide in due time, I'm sure), they are a crutch for when my playing time is restricted. Which it is more than I like, I'll be the first to admit.  :P

My most enjoyable games were the ones that happened in the OW, and that were well-matched one way or the other. That does not necessarily mean that ships and skills have to be matched, I had some very fun games running and dodging in a trader to reach the forts or the time limit. I guess the reason for this is that the engagements were imbued with meaning beyond the engagement itself (keeping  a ship liked or needed, getting to a particular place on time, etc.). As such I whole-heartedly agree with @Wraith saying "Player-generated PvP content is needed desperately outside of the limited RvR mechanics."

The one thing that occasionally spoils the OW for me is being forced into battles that aren't fun. Please note that this is not equal to "that I cannot win", but rather to "that I have no agency whatsoever in". "Ganks", some would call them.

I think that sometimes in our discussions, we focus too much on limiting players that exploit mechanics, rather than looking into how we can encourage gentlemanly behaviour. I wouldn't expect a group of six who caught me alone for being stupid, to offer a 1-on-1. But restraining yourself to a 3-on-1 that both sides get more out of, that I'd like to see even more of. And I don't think we can get there by changing the RoEs, that is something playerbase culture needs to uphold.

If you would pardon the ramble.

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5 hours ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

That's still a sailing game, goddammit!

 

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

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7 minutes ago, Trashlock said:

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

Sorry Sir, to contradict to you: That's NAL

NA is combat in sailing ships AND interaction in an open world

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14 minutes ago, Trashlock said:

 

No Sir, the core feature of this game is not sailing but combat in sailing ships. The OW is merely a hub to make battles happen. Imo the time needed in this hub is already too large (especially for stupid rep kits hauling).

What supposed to be the difference between NA and NAL?

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So I am a carebear. Please tell us numbers, before Patrol Missions, 500 online players, how many of them doing the OW Pvp, excluding gangked players and traders. What is the percentage?

So why shape the game for the fewer elite, as they post more here does not change the fact that they are minority and will always be.

And how many people knowing and willingly joined patrol missions? So if you elite pvpers and gankers want to farm other people, you sir still need numbers, to sustain your business. Imagine what happens when you have 5000 online instead of 500. Oh on the other hand when it is 5000, there will be a competition. May be it is not what you desire?

So it has been a succesful experiment to introduce Patrol Missions. What needs to be done is to improve it. May be 3-4 times a week, so the elite can still farm others, keep milking pvp marks, or reduce prize to 5 pvp marks plus the marks you get for sinking others.

For months I could not find someone from my clan to do pvp, but yesterday we were 7 I guess. So it was super fun, lots of people coming to mission, never seen shroud cay that crowded. Good thing with mission you do not need a ship worth 1 to 10 million gold, you can buy a ship for 50k plus cannons and some repairs, you are set for fun. I was ganked most of the time , but I tried to stay alive for long time despite outnumbered and yes I enjoyed it, I sinked ships. 

So people were looking for content and this is a content, we need numbers, this will get numbers. Please make more missions like this including Pve boss fights out of safe waters again :)

I disagree with “ this is an alpha do not care for numbers” idea. Game has sold hundered thousand copies? Where are these people? 

If 100k sold, 500 players online, when game is released you are gonna sell 1 million to have 5k online?

 

We never want arcade, we never want basic mechanics, but content for everybody not only for people who spend 6 hours for NA everyday. Who buys a book for 300 pvp mark for 6 percent speed in OW, pls do not cry for realism to keep securing your position as elite, and does not care about the game really, only cares his current position as only way to preserve it to keep the game as it was.

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1 hour ago, Louis Garneray said:

A night timer like you I guess, I went in with my Indefatigable. I met a few people. Most of them were in trashy frigate or basic cutter at the Tumbado event.

I saw Pipolanoix (French) in a 1st rate alone, hoping to get a fight vs a bunch of people as he used to do at KPR  but when I left he was still waiting. On the French side, he was the only one in 1st rate.

There were a mix of ships  on the French side: a couple of 2nd rate, everything else was 3rd or 4th rate. We were no more than 7 or 8 people all together.

Not to call you a liar, but when I got on last night which was pretty late the guys going in was only in groups of 2-3 so a group of 7-8 guys is really hard to fight against.  Specially when they are in mostly 4th and 3rd rates with a 1st rate (I did saw a 2nd rate come in with your fleet so you had one in group too, but that could of been another nation too since we can't see that stuff).  Most of the folks I see going to these events are going in 5th and 4th rates, but mostly store bought 5th rates.  The only time I see folks bring something that isn't a none permit ship is in the shallows cause even H Rattlers and Niagaras are fairly cheap to replace.

The point is if you want fights maybe break the group up into smaller groups and not go in such a big group and don't bring anything above a 4th rate.  It's about going in there and dishing out a lot of damage and prob sinking and getting right back in and doing it over and over.  That is why it says to bring a ship you can loose.

 

As for other PvP ya'll haven't been up the coast in a while by what I hear since I been in US for 3 weeks now.  Though I could miss it if it's on a week day since I work nights (3rd shift).  Ya'll do come out kinda late too even on week days.  So most folks are in bed or heading that way and that is the reason your prob not seeing much action.  I mean 11pm CST is pretty late for most normal folks that got to work in the morning.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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I believe that the intent and purpose of the unlimited tows is not understood.  I am suggesting that there be unlimited tows but only to the free port that is next to the pvp zone that day.  Ship losses are much higher than in OW on account of the nature of the battles and the fact that you cannot exit.  If you get on the wrong side of the battle, odds are you will end up losing your ship.  If you used up your tow to get a ship there you have to buy a port one.  Often there is little to no selection in port and people come out in junk ships which makes for a poor experience since you basically become cannon fodder.  If there are unlimited tows to that free port for the day, people can bring out better ships.  Also, often times we get clanmates that cannot participate as they used up their tow elsewhere.  So unlimited tows will allow more participation and will allow repeat participation. 

For those who advocate sailing ships there, it is wishful thinking.  Take the Tumbado pvp zone and French, Danish and Swedish players who mostly craft at their capitals.  Do you really think that they will sail their ships 2-3 hours to the zone and repeat this if they get sunk.  It will not happen and participation will be low.

As for the repairs, there were none at Tumbado.  Let's face it, no one will take out a good ship with no repairs.  The player economy method is not capable of providing sufficient repairs as are required for the events.  Furthermore, the cost is prohibitive for some and may discourage participation.  Thus free ports should offer repairs during the day that the pvp event is adjacent to them.

Lastly, ship quantity and selection should be improved.

The events should be fun and easily accessible for all, which they are not atm.  Implementing these changes will render them more accessible and increase participation and OW pvp for all.  The rewards offered by pvp and the pvp missions are a very good improvement that should discourage any abuse. 

 

 

 

Edited by TheLoneWolf
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25 minutes ago, TheLoneWolf said:

I believe that the intent and purpose of the unlimited tows is not understood.  I am suggesting that there be unlimited tows but only to the free port that is next to the pvp zone that day.  Ship losses are much higher than in OW on account of the nature of the battles and the fact that you cannot exit.  If you get on the wrong side of the battle, odds are you will end up losing your ship.  If you used up your tow to get a ship there you have to buy a port one.  Often there is little to no selection in port and people come out in junk ships which makes for a poor experience since you basically become cannon fodder.  If there are unlimited tows to that free port for the day, people can bring out better ships.  Also, often times we get clanmates that cannot participate as they used up their tow elsewhere.  So unlimited tows will allow more participation and will allow repeat participation. 

For those who advocate sailing ships there, it is wishful thinking.  Take the Tumbado pvp zone and French, Danish and Swedish players who mostly craft at their capitals.  Do you really think that they will sail their ships 2-3 hours to the zone and repeat this if they get sunk.  It will not happen and participation will be low.

As for the repairs, there were none at Tumbado.  Let's face it, no one will take out a good ship with no repairs.  The player economy method is not capable of providing sufficient repairs as are required for the events.  Furthermore, the cost is prohibitive for some and may discourage participation.  Thus free ports should offer repairs during the day that the pvp event is adjacent to them.

Lastly, she ship quantity and selection should be improved.

The events should be fun and easily accessible for all, which they are not atm.  Implementing these changes will render them more accessible and increase participation and OW pvp for all.  The rewards offered by pvp and the pvp missions are a very good improvement that should discourage any abuse. 

Luckily the PvP zones move around, everybody will get their turn - I think you're missing my point.

Open World PvP'ers will be unable to afford PvPing.

If free teleports are implemented it is going to mean that the only active areas will be the PvP zones and Safe zone, I am willing to accept that as I believe that will change over time as we get more players (Hopefully). But the PvP-zone will function as a PvP-mark farming area, this will overflood the market with marks and they will be worth nothing.

What do OW PvPers then have to trade with?

Everybody is doing trading in the safe-zones so we have no valuable goods to capture from traders and our PvP-marks are worthless. We will make next to no money from our activities and the whole idea behind the Open World is gone. We will be forced back to PVE within a couple of weeks. The other options is of course to join you guys in your "activities", but I'd rather not.

We all have a different idea of fun, but try to see beyond what you find entertaining and find a compromise. You have the PvP zones, and have one tow per day - That should be more than enough. It's fine that you have your little PVP-zones where you can go with your cheap ships and have a bit of fun fighting eachother using some tournament based/arcadish rules that promotes headless shooting and ganking - but don't let it ruin it for the part of the community that plays the game for the sake of OW hunting. If I wanted to take part in throwing ships away I'd be playing Legends.

Edited by Percival Merewether
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13 hours ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

#NoToTow.

There is still a ow beside pvp-circus and safezones and it's not an issue to supply most of the free ports with ships and repairs. Tumbado has usually a good stock of repairs - although expensive, but that's only the compensation for the traders risk to haul them there.

You could easily open outposts in several freeports and buy ai ships for the patrol or tow one there per day if ya insist. But excessive towing per day is only lame. That's still a sailing game, goddammit!

 

12 hours ago, Percival Merewether said:

Thank god we have NA Legends! ;) towing ships around is generally a bad idea, and one tow per day is enough - we need more ships in OW, not fewer.

What short memory you have. After the wipe there were double the amount of daily players, yet there was hardly any OW pvp. The reason? No tow, no teleport.

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