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Slim McSauce

Capturable 4th-1st rates?

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@admin Not too long ago you were planning to implement full ship capture with the downside of those ships being 1br and others. After discussion you felt there were too many potential problems surrounding the 1br idea.

My question is will there be any further consideration on this? The full ship capture was a good idea but the 1br was too troublesome. Now with the introduction of malice bonuses, could we see a return of this feature?

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I think the idea was shouted down. I mostly didn't want the system applied to 5th Rates and below.

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1 hour ago, Olorin said:

Mostly who? pvp only guys? obviously. Look at reviews for god sake. 

he means the 1br for all captured ships. Obvious potential for problems there.

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I had the most fun in this game when there was capturable 3rd rates. Massive battles of third rates vs third rates was fun as heck.

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Just now, Bombg said:

I had the most fun in this game when there was capturable 3rd rates. Massive battles of third rates vs third rates was fun as heck.

I'm glad you bumped this, I think it's time we reintroduces SOL capture. Capturing SOLs is a skill, if I take my connie out I should be able to bag an AI 1st rate with it. The market for SOLs are trash and crewspace won't serve much for serious PVPers. It makes no sense that there's a wall between 4th and SOLs for capture.

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Nope. Make ship crafting matter. 3rd rate spam was a miserable time on the server and made for extremely boring battles.

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1 minute ago, Wraith said:

Nope. Make ship crafting matter. 3rd rate spam was a miserable time on the server and made for extremely boring battles.

We also brought up the abuse of easy cheap fireships that no one cares about cause they captured it from AI.  Yah that post got shot down very fast with multi reason why it was bad to bring back capture of permited ships and SOL.

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2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Nope. Make ship crafting matter. 3rd rate spam was a miserable time on the server and made for extremely boring battles.

Crafting does matter, you can't get anything but crew space with maybe a bonus capturing, you can get a 5/5 with bonus crafting. 

1 minute ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

We also brought up the abuse of easy cheap fireships that no one cares about cause they captured it from AI.  Yah that post got shot down very fast with multi reason why it was bad to bring back capture of permited ships and SOL.

Fireships rarely ever work. If you get fireshipped it's more on you.

Game reality should be stable, it makes no logical sense that I can capture a 5th rate but not a 4th rate or SOL when those ships share the exact same malus. 

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20 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Crafting does matter, you can't get anything but crew space with maybe a bonus capturing, you can get a 5/5 with bonus crafting. 

Fireships rarely ever work. If you get fireshipped it's more on you.

Game reality should be stable, it makes no logical sense that I can capture a 5th rate but not a 4th rate or SOL when those ships share the exact same malus. 

actually RL you wouldn't be able to keep a SOL.  It would be sent back to the Admirality, refitted and than given to some one else as a new commissioned ship in the Navy.  Smaller frigates would some times be assigned to the officer that brought it back with the Prize crew as his first ship.  So with that the only ones that could capture and keep SOL's would be the pirates;)

 

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I had a hard time getting people together to PVP back when there was capturable 3rd rates because they were afraid of losing. So their throwaway status, if anything, is a good thing. I haven't played ages, and the main reason being  a pvp group/fight was very difficult to put together. Either you wondered around with your group for ages to find nothing. If there was a fight, often people wouldn't mount a defense because they were afraid of losing. I have noticed patrol zones were recently added so I guess we'll see how that affects things.

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19 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

actually RL you wouldn't be able to keep a SOL.  It would be sent back to the Admirality, refitted and than given to some one else as a new commissioned ship in the Navy.  Smaller frigates would some times be assigned to the officer that brought it back with the Prize crew as his first ship.  So with that the only ones that could capture and keep SOL's would be the pirates;)

That's true for all actions at the time for the navy. Everything strictly went through the admiralty, a prize ship was redistributed as wealth to the crew, the ship itself would likely be refitted for service under their colors.

BUT, following the reailty of NA, one level lower than the meta (strings of logic and reasoning that define the parameters of what is and is not possible within the game).....;

Quintessentially in NA we are pirates first and navies second. Our admiralty is nothing more than an abstraction of a premium currency shop. For the most part we players take our own orders and do things that benefit us, not the admiralty.

Therefore to define frigates as capturable, and sols as not in an inconsistency in logic of the game. If we were to try to explain this to someone we would have to do so in a meta-game manner. Theres no line of reasoning that admiralty in NA must approve what ships can be captured, therefore using that as a reason does not follow the parameters of in game logic. 

In order to explain this within a tutorial you would literally have to tell players they cannot capture SOLs because its OP, that's a massive blemish on NA lore logic and meta and curious players would be dissatisfied with such a reason.

Its like if battles OW battles were changed to top out at 15v15 

"Well wouldn't it make sense for battles on the open sea to have more room for ships?"

"Nah bro 25v25s are too big"

Not a very good answer :I

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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55 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Game reality should be stable, it makes no logical sense that I can capture a 5th rate but not a 4th rate or SOL when those ships share the exact same malus. 

Heh, but you're ok with a whole different, magical set of RoE and BR limits inside certain PvP Event zones?  Or you want special rules applied in certain instances to ensure equal BR fights but are ok with them not being applied in others?

The point is, we make concessions in consistency and rules in order to ensure that game systems function in a dynamic and engaging way.  (At least we do in an ideal world!)

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7 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Heh, but you're ok with a whole different, magical set of RoE and BR limits inside certain PvP Event zones?  Or you want special rules applied in certain instances to ensure equal BR fights but are ok with them not being applied in others?

Yes, because those advance gameplay. Putting SOL capture behind an invisible wall does NOT advance gameplay. That's unjustifiable anti-sandboxism (lol but really it is)

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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clans would go out and farm for pb fleets for port defence particularly for ports they didn't really care much about....

 

 

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3 hours ago, Wraith said:

Nope. Make ship crafting matter. 3rd rate spam was a miserable time on the server and made for extremely boring battles.

with the nerfs admin was talking about for captured ships, I don't see it being a huge problem. However, I would like to see them spend the time instead re-evaluating the current crafting/mod economy with an eye towards not making it so damn expensive. People need cheap ships they don't mind losing to encourage them getting out and fighting. The more "rare" ships and "rare" modules are added, the less likely casual players are to put those ships/modules at risk.

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Im against capturing bigger ships. There needs to be a cost associated with sailing bigger ships, particularly in pvp.

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39 minutes ago, BPHick said:

with the nerfs admin was talking about for captured ships, I don't see it being a huge problem. However, I would like to see them spend the time instead re-evaluating the current crafting/mod economy with an eye towards not making it so damn expensive. People need cheap ships they don't mind losing to encourage them getting out and fighting. The more "rare" ships and "rare" modules are added, the less likely casual players are to put those ships/modules at risk.

Are ships really that expensive?  I mean, I contend that for anything above 5th rates it should be expensive for a single crafter to do. And that to get to rated ships and certainly 3rd-1st you should probably be in a clan with a well functioning ship line to make those ships in a relatively inexpensive and streamlined fashion.

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35 minutes ago, BPHick said:

with the nerfs admin was talking about for captured ships, I don't see it being a huge problem. However, I would like to see them spend the time instead re-evaluating the current crafting/mod economy with an eye towards not making it so damn expensive. People need cheap ships they don't mind losing to encourage them getting out and fighting. The more "rare" ships and "rare" modules are added, the less likely casual players are to put those ships/modules at risk.

Nerfs were already implemented, the chances of capturing a 0 slot or shabby ship is pretty high. A crafted ship can have 5 more perm slots that a captured one, think about that.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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41 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Nerfs were already implemented, the chances of capturing a 0 slot or shabby ship is pretty high. A crafted ship can have 5 more perm slots that a captured one, think about that.

I was talking about the BR rating of 1 and the mast/sail debuffs, not the quality rng BS.

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Just now, BPHick said:

I was talking about the BR rating of 1 and the mast/sail debuffs, not the quality rng BS.

That I believe was scrapped for many reasons. Imo the debuffs we get for capturing are enough (only 0-3 slots, shabby and crew space)  You don't really need anymore, unless you plan on making every captured ship have 1 br and paper masts, say goodbye to people ever using these ships, captured ships are half the market, they're a cheap alternative for PVPers. Take that away and you're forcing people to craft and taking away an integral part of the game.

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3 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Take that away and you're forcing people to craft and taking away an integral part of the game.

:mouth agape: Crafting? Economy?!  In an open world, sandbox MMO?  THAT WOULD BE CRAZY :rolleyes:

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Crafting would lose meaning for sure, because everyone would cap 1st rates and go fighting with them instead of taking the risk to lose the crafted 1st rates.

Screening would only be build with PVE 1st rates, no Portbattlefleet could get in a Portbattle anymore. And i think a player who loses his 5/5 Ocean to 3 capped PVE 1st rates will be just frustrated.

And dont forget that captured ships still have the same firepower like crafted ones. Even the Crew Space "malus" can be used to go full boarding. Thats how i would play it. I would capture 1st rates in PVE together with @rediii @Palatinose and @Trashlock go full boarding with them and capture crafted ships.

And imagine a fleet of 25PVE ships vs the same 25 crafted ships. Sure the crafted fleet will win. but while the PVE captured ships just dont mean anything, any single destroyed crafted ship will cause pure frustration.

Clear no from me.

Edited by Abram Svensson
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1 hour ago, Abram Svensson said:

Crafting would lose meaning for sure, because everyone would cap 1st rates and go fighting with them instead of taking the risk to lose the crafted 1st rates.

Screening would only be build with PVE 1st rates, no Portbattlefleet could get in a Portbattle anymore. And i think a player who loses his 5/5 Ocean to 3 capped PVE 1st rates will be just frustrated.

And dont forget that captured ships still have the same firepower like crafted ones. Even the Crew Space "malus" can be used to go full boarding. Thats how i would play it. I would capture 1st rates in PVE together with @rediii @Palatinose and @Trashlock go full boarding with them and capture crafted ships.

So you want any captued ships because a captured ship can defeat a crafted one with much more difficulty?

...

"And imagine a fleet of 25PVE ships vs the same 25 crafted ships. Sure the crafted fleet will win. but while the PVE captured ships just dont mean anything, any single destroyed crafted ship will cause pure frustration"

What point are you even making here. I'm really confused.

You don't think captured ships are a problem, but they cause too much PVP therefore we shouldn't be able to use captured ships?

I'm just trying to follow your reasoning, and make sure it's not just because you have anti-PVE or anti-sandbox bias who says no to any change that could potentially affect the way you play the game without putting any thought in.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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