Navy versions of Existing ships to increase variety

[Slim McSauce]

Simple suggestion, we have brig, navy brig; frigate, pirate frigate. This could be expanded to more ships for more variety. For example, Navy Frigate, Navy 3rd Rate, Pirate Brig, so on and so forth.

Thoughts on more ships like this?

[Christendom]

A suggest I mentioned once or twice is to have variants of each ship, a basic one that is craftable in the capital (safe zone) regions and then a more elite one that is crafted in player owned ports.  It seems absurd to me that John P Crafter in KPR can randomly make 5/5 gold ships when John B Crafter in a player owned port has the same exact chance.  

Capital region ship - base stats
Non Capital region ship "Navy ship" - Base stats + additional slots/random attributes/whatever. 

Put a restriction on Navy ships being towed into capital regions or something like that and boom, safe zone hiding problem partially solved.

What do you think @admin?

Edited March 5, 2018 by Christendom

[jodgi]

Well, there *could* be pirate versions of the mid->smaller ships, but wouldn't that get tiresome?

Most of the bigger ships are implicit Navy vessels already.

[Navalus Magnus]

9 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Most of the bigger ships are implicit Navy vessels already.

... and imo it wouldn‘t make any sense to have Navy and Non-Navy versions of all SOLs!

I would be very surprised if any private person back in the age of sail was able to get a SOL to sail around and fight private little wars!

Edited March 5, 2018 by Navalus Magnus

[Gregory Rainsborough]

30 minutes ago, Christendom said:

A suggest I mentioned once or twice is to have variants of each ship, a basic one that is craftable in the capital (safe zone) regions and then a more elite one that is crafted in player owned ports.  It seems absurd to me that John P Crafter in KPR can randomly make 5/5 gold ships when John B Crafter in a player owned port has the same exact chance.  

Capital region ship - base stats
Non Capital region ship "Navy ship" - Base stats + additional slots/random attributes/whatever. 

Put a restriction on Navy ships being towed into capital regions or something like that and boom, safe zone hiding problem partially solved.

What do you think @admin?

I do like the idea that ships in non-safe ports should have a higher chance of producing better quality ships. It'd encourage people to set up elsewhere.

[victor]

52 minutes ago, Christendom said:

A suggest I mentioned once or twice is to have variants of each ship, a basic one that is craftable in the capital (safe zone) regions and then a more elite one that is crafted in player owned ports.  It seems absurd to me that John P Crafter in KPR can randomly make 5/5 gold ships when John B Crafter in a player owned port has the same exact chance.  

Capital region ship - base stats
Non Capital region ship "Navy ship" - Base stats + additional slots/random attributes/whatever. 

Put a restriction on Navy ships being towed into capital regions or something like that and boom, safe zone hiding problem partially solved.

What do you think @admin?

There is no safe zones hiding problem in this game. There are safe zones which are a game mechanic working as intended.

People playing in the safe zones are not some kind of second rank players, they paid for the game exaclty as PVPers did. So they deserve a role in the game and this role is now only crafting. And ship crafting is certainly the edge of crafting, requiring time and a fair amount of grind to get to max level (not mentioning the management of materials).

Dedicated ships crafters are usually NOT dedicated PVP players, so it would be a contraddiction to force them out safe zones in order to craft good ships.

You chose your role in the game: fight in a difficult nation and doing mainly PVP, and that's fine. So please do not impose every other player the same role just because you like this way of playing.

 

[maturin]

A Navy 3rd Rate?

That's sort of like a Catholic refit for the Pope.

[Christendom]

39 minutes ago, victor said:

There is no safe zones hiding problem in this game. There are safe zones which are a game mechanic working as intended.

People playing in the safe zones are not some kind of second rank players, they paid for the game exaclty as PVPers did. So they deserve a role in the game and this role is now only crafting. And ship crafting is certainly the edge of crafting, requiring time and a fair amount of grind to get to max level (not mentioning the management of materials).

Dedicated ships crafters are usually NOT dedicated PVP players, so it would be a contraddiction to force them out safe zones in order to craft good ships.

You chose your role in the game: fight in a difficult nation and doing mainly PVP, and that's fine. So please do not impose every other player the same role just because you like this way of playing.

 

Presumably a player can craft every ship inside the safe zone and get the same chances at crafting a 5/5 gold as someone who takes the risk of crafting outside of the safe zone in a port that can be capped and his traders harmed.  This should not be the case.  

The game overall needs to encourage players to venture beyond the safety of the zones and go create content.  A crafter at KPR can still make ships, his game play is not restricted.  A player that chooses to do so elsewhere at risk should be rewarded for it.  

There's 200 whatever ports in the game.  We need to create reasons for people to visit more than 10 of them.  

The PVE crafters paid their money sure, but here is also the PVE server where they can do so with no risk.  Our game play should not be diminished to create safe havens where players can craft with ZERO interaction with the outside world.  

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, jodgi said:

Well, there *could* be pirate versions of the mid->smaller ships, but wouldn't that get tiresome?

Most of the bigger ships are implicit Navy vessels already.

The non-specific types (even though they are specific just not explicitly mentioned in game) like the brig, frigate and 3rd rate could use this.

The 3rd rate being all but useless under the shadow of the Bellona, Navy version being either a rare craft refit like somebody mentioned, or perhaps requiring an admirals blessing note for the craft recipe to make one.

We have the Pirate frigate which is a cool concept that could make it's way into smaller ships (Historically these types of ships were the ships of the pirates) So maybe a few more special crafting recipes for "outlaw" factions, or again have them random from the regular recipes (But I don't know how well that'd fly if you just wanted the normal version)

The frigate although already a navy vessel, yes. A navy version to match the regular/pirate version would just be a neat addition with slightly buffed stats like the pfrig but in more navy-y regards.

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, victor said:

There is no safe zones hiding problem in this game. There are safe zones which are a game mechanic working as intended.

People playing in the safe zones are not some kind of second rank players, they paid for the game exaclty as PVPers did. So they deserve a role in the game and this role is now only crafting. And ship crafting is certainly the edge of crafting, requiring time and a fair amount of grind to get to max level (not mentioning the management of materials).

Dedicated ships crafters are usually NOT dedicated PVP players, so it would be a contraddiction to force them out safe zones in order to craft good ships.

You chose your role in the game: fight in a difficult nation and doing mainly PVP, and that's fine. So please do not impose every other player the same role just because you like this way of playing.

Off topic but you make it seem like these people have no ambitions to PVP, when in reality anyone who joins the PVP server expects to PVP in some point in time. 

I believe what Christendom says is right. Players should be encouraged to leave safezones, otherwise they're just a number on the population. This is PVP server first and foremost and we can't keep trying to capture an audience that

1. Already has a server of their own to play

2. Are incompatible with PVP centric rules.

We gotta move forward on what we can improve and encouragement to PVP is one of those things. PVPer chose our roles, but we also chose OUR server. We are not the odd ones out trying to force our style on everyone, we just want to have a functioning game without being dragged down by a PVE only audience who simply do not fit in the ecosystem of NA PVP server.

[Farrago]

I personally don’t like to hang out in the safe zone but let me suggest that it is quite possibly those who do who are crafting a large percentage of your ships, your cannons, getting the materials for your repairs, finding the books and mods, and providing most of the gold to pay for your ports. Obviously there are some players who don’t need anyone to be doing that production and PVE gold grind for them but I’d suggest that without it, much of the large scale game operations such as RVR and fleet battles would grind to a halt.

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Farrago said:

I personally don’t like to hang out in the safe zone but let me suggest that it is quite possibly those who do who are crafting a large percentage of your ships, your cannons, getting the materials for your repairs, finding the books and mods, and providing most of the gold to pay for your ports. Obviously there are some players who don’t need anyone to be doing that production and PVE gold grind for them but I’d suggest that without it, much of the large scale game operations such as RVR and fleet battles would grind to a halt.

There are a few solutions to this. But without a doubt safe areas should serve to protect new player 100% before catering to anyone else.

But it's a tough push, people want to get rich with no risk involved. New players are a secondary concern.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I'm against multiple version of a same ship, like the three version of the "Fair american" brig (trader / Brig / navy brig) i think it overload the database while a single fair american could be tuned in a navy combat vessel via giving it a navy structure and navy hull refit, or fitting it as a trader via a new "trader refit" perma  upgrade availlable via combat mark reducing crew (and maybe guns per side in exchange of large hold space. similarly a "pirate refit" is already doable via pirate rig , light ship hammock and nassau boarders, maybe add a deck of swivels tied to one of those upgrades and we are done.

That way any 6th-7th rank could be present in game as an unique ship but customisable as a navy / trader / pirate version. 

Gros ventre and indiaman as 5th & 4th rank traders by default can / could also already be turned as pirate or more combat capable versions via such upgrades systems.

a trader refit perma upgrade could also be added for 5th to 3rd rate ships named "en flute" as historically, french navy and probably others used some lineships (mostly 4th - 3rd rates) for transport purpose by removing the maindeck guns and drasticaly reducing crew. 

So:

 

1- merge all Lynx/Brig/cutter/snow / frigate / gros ventre differents versions into their historical version.

2- Add a swivel deck (above the weather deck one) for one of the  pirate upgrade (either pirate rig refit or nassau boarders) or create a pirate boarder refits combining multiple bonus + swivels

3- Add Trader fitting perma upgrade for 6th-7th rate ships reducing crew and increasing hold space and slots (to meet the "trader versions" stats we have atm"

4- Add a "en flute" perma upgrade for 5-4th (maybe up to 3rd) increasing hold space at the price of having the maindeck locked and reduced crew.

5- Bring back paints to increase variety !

Edited March 6, 2018 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Yes, the differences being asked for here could very well be done on an individual basis when we had more upgrade slots and the appropriate refits which change the nature of a given basic ship design to the desired specification, together with the existing ones.

As some refits in reality would take weeks of work to accomplish, I would suggest to make it rather expensive in terms of labor contracts necessary for any changes which are heavy on changing the characteristics of the original design.

[Navalus Magnus]

@Slim Jimmerson

To bring in more variety is a good idea!

But i‘d rather have new ships implemented into the game - even if it takes time - than a new version of every ship, that looks like its twin.

I also think that NA already has lots of ships!

Therefore the priority of the devs should still be to finetune the ballancing between the existing ships / to get the best out of the existing variety!

I think devs are on a good way to achieve this, they just need a bit more time.

[Thonys]

On 5-3-2018 at 5:26 PM, Slim Jimmerson said:

Simple suggestion, we have brig, navy brig; frigate, pirate frigate. This could be expanded to more ships for more variety. For example, Navy Frigate, Navy 3rd Rate, Pirate Brig, so on and so forth.

Thoughts on more ships like this?

I see that you have the need for more diversity.
"give a pusher a dive installation and you can explore the ocean."

I think more that differences in the upgrades, on a boat, more to your request, than a different name to a boat, and then there is no difference in the same upgrade, with a different variable.

we need different builds and more different upgrades  ,and not same types with different names (to short true the corner)

besides ,merchant vessels where (at least for the dutch) also navy ship 

for instance the indiaman (64? gunner)

Edited March 7, 2018 by Thonys

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

@Navalus Magnus

Yeah , I'm agreed with you . I was searching for new ships and found something on Naval Action Wiki. There are some ships what I will like to see them on the game .

1) Diana - Spanish frigate 

 - Gun Deck - 26 cannons (12pd)

 - Weather Deck - 8 cannons (6pd)

 

2) Christian VII - Danish 2rt ship 

- Bottom Gun Deck - 28 cannons (42pd)

- Middle Gun Deck - 28 cannons (18pd)

- Top Gun Deck - 26 cannons (12pd)

- Weather Deck - 8 cannons (9pd)

 

 2) Panteleimon-Victoria - Russia  3rt ship

- 66 cannons 

 

 

I will search for more if they will put them in the game .

Edited December 17, 2018 by Captan Thomas Fremantle

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

We have already a lot of small vessels,  we need mostly to improve the number of 3rt , 2nd and 1rt ships .

Edited March 7, 2018 by CaptainSparckles

[Hethwill]

Aren't the crafting refits lending better qualities to a ship exactly what is proposed ?

A 3rd rate can, by means of abstraction, simulating a good day at the shipyards, be constructed so well that it comes out a excellent navy grade ship.