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Determined Defender Perk

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Captains
In so many cases the light ship is turning you into a wind like a small tugboat turning a heavy tanker, with the only goal - to rage board, or to stop you so his friends can come along and finish you off. 

Determined defender perk will help you in such situations. Just like brave Redoutable was able to fend off all boarding attempts from HMS Victory, you, if you have enough crew, can avoid boarding attempts if you have this perk. Enemy will have to have 30% crew advantage to start pulling, which means that rage boarder will first have to lower your crew to try to board your ship.

Let us know your experiences with this perk and thoughts on potential improvements in this topic.

 

 

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I agree on the grit and bravery being abstractly simulated by a perk. I just don't feel comfortable with it being binary - have / don't have - as a end result.

The format of DD, with the difference of crew to be allowed to initiate the boarding was the mechanical put off.

Best way to do it ? Not sure. We can assume that our crewmen always fight heroically and then it makes sense, but we could do with some variety and have it as always present in all ships and in every different boarding act as a "morale boost", with different index value everytime. So the crew is more heroic in one boarding action than on the other.

 

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I might remember that we had such a perk in the past. I liked it. Was a nice counter against rage boarder that just closed in pushed and boarded.

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32 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains
In so many cases the light ship is turning you into a wind like a small tugboat turning a heavy tanker, with the only goal - to rage board

Well thats not true, small ships cant push bigger ships into the wind. Belle Poule cant push Consti, Consti cant push Bellona etc...

Its only possible if sails are very low (<70%) or if you turn through the wind and in that case you didnt got pushed around, you just made a mistake. Keeping minimum speed to not get boarded and turning through the wind only if no enemy can reach you in time is a skill.

I dont see rage boarding as a problem, because it can only happen if the player makes a mistake or is heavily outnumbered.

 

Problem is chain boarding. You won boarding but are stuck in the wind so that you cant reach 3,5 knots in 1 minute and get pulled again or even worse some1 else pulls you instantly. Theres no way out. I think it would be better if players have 2 minutes boarding immunity after they got boarded and disengaged.

Theres also another problem: Often you cant win boarding because the defensive mods are too strong right now. Barricades combined with book of 5 rings and it pretty much impossible to win boarding in time even if you counter the enemy all the time.

 

So in my opinion the defensive boarding mods need changes and a global boarding immunity timer should be added.

Edited by Jon Snow lets go
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What this perk does from my understanding is forbid smaller ship the right to board bigger ships. We have seen snows and such able to take on first rate previously which isn't necessarily a good thing either.

But consider this, the aim is to force people to stern rake before boarding, right?

then why not instead of forcing the attacker to kill in some cases 200% the size of his own crew before boarding, just set a perk protecting the defender from boarding as long as he is above 70% crew?

it would make more sense due to the lack of crew to cut the grapples and so on.

Either way don't disable the pulling, just make it fail on the attempt?

 

 

At the end of the day I still think a dynamic permanent boarding action based on distance like suggested by rediii a few days ago would be the best thing to ever happen to boarding. NO UI, only dynamic boarding based on the crew amount you attribute to it.

Edited by RKY

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Not a big fan myself since I love boarding from smaller vessels and as some says in this thread the real problem lies with multiple ships ganging up(1 boards another sits on the stern). 

Another underlying issue is that people don't equip/ like / engage in boarding, if you go all reload stack you deserve to get boarded. 

I would suggest to moderate the use of this perk that the boarder needs at least 70% of crew of target to pull. So a Vic with 700 crew can board a Santi with 1000 crew perk equipped. This would still remove the most unrealistic metaboarding.

another suggestion is to give this perk a 90% cannonfire crew resistance during boarding which would protect against groups with sterncampers.

When we had this perk last time boarding mods were far to overpowered and there was a good argument for it, but since then they have been tuned down, and I do say it is really irritating if your last chance is to board you get close and tooltip says that you cannot board due to this perk, at very least show on ship info that ship is equipped with defender perk if implementing, and make it 3 points or more since it is so overpowered.

Edited by TrackTerror
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IF i'm right with this perk.

 

Connie (450 crew) can't pull anything until enemy has 315 and that is with Connie having Max crew.

Bellona (650 crew) can't pull anything until enemy has 455 and again that is with Bellona having a full crew still.

A L'Ocean (1100 crew) can't pull another L'Ocean until its killed 330 of it's crew and has not lost any of it's own.

A Victory (800 crew) would have to reduce any ship to 560 crew and still have all it's own crew max to be able to board.

Is this not a bit imbalanced in it's current form and running this perk  just makes you almost un-boardable so you no longer need to worry about taking any boarding ship knowledge at all to counter people boarding you.

It doesn't affect boarding down a class so much if at all but trying to board up a class (or a bigger crewed ship) becomes it seems maybe to hard.

 

Like RKY posted, perhaps it should not be 30% more crew but.... you cannot board enemy ship until you have killed 30% or more of the enemies crew? This wouldn't even need to be a perk just a general game rule.

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7 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I really cant imagine how people like boarding with the current minigame we have.

The mini game can surely be improved I agree,

However, this wont change that.

Edited by TrackTerror
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56 minutes ago, Chug said:

IF i'm right with this perk.

 

Connie (450 crew) can't pull anything until enemy has 315 and that is with Connie having Max crew.

Bellona (650 crew) can't pull anything until enemy has 455 and again that is with Bellona having a full crew still.

A L'Ocean (1100 crew) can't pull another L'Ocean until its killed 330 of it's crew and has not lost any of it's own.

A Victory (800 crew) would have to reduce any ship to 560 crew and still have all it's own crew max to be able to board.

Is this not a bit imbalanced in it's current form and running this perk  just makes you almost un-boardable so you no longer need to worry about taking any boarding ship knowledge at all to counter people boarding you.

It doesn't affect boarding down a class so much if at all but trying to board up a class (or a bigger crewed ship) becomes it seems maybe to hard.

 

Like RKY posted, perhaps it should not be 30% more crew but.... you cannot board enemy ship until you have killed 30% or more of the enemies crew? This wouldn't even need to be a perk just a general game rule.

so a vic couldnt board a snow until the snow lost 30% crew?

Thats bad

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8 minutes ago, rediii said:

so a vic couldnt board a snow until the snow lost 30% crew?

Thats bad

ehm  no

crew advantage must be over 30% - please read the descriptions carefully
Victory crew advantage is more than 30% over snow so the perk wont help the snow.
But snow will never board the victory if victory captain has this perk; even if snow rakes victory to 300 crew left victory will still have 200 more than snow. 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

ehm  no

crew advantage must be over 30% - please read the descriptions carefully
Victory crew advantage is more than 30% over snow so the perk wont help the snow.
But snow will never board the victory if victory captain has this perk; even if snow rakes victory to 300 crew left victory will still have 200 more than snow. 

I mean what chug suggestedt. :) I likr the determined defender perk as it is right now

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13 minutes ago, rediii said:

so a vic couldnt board a snow until the snow lost 30% crew?

Thats bad

 why would you want to in first place and even if you wanted to not even half a broadside from a vic would kill 30% of the snows crew. However if you think is still an issue. Make it work like this. In order to board a ship you must have X% (30%-50% or whatever) more crew Or kill 30% of theirs first.

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3 minutes ago, Chug said:

 why would you want to in first place and even if you wanted to not even half a broadside from a vic would kill 30% of the snows crew. However if you think is still an issue. Make it work like this. In order to board a ship you must have X% (30%-50% or whatever) more crew Or kill 30% of theirs first.

thats exactly what admin did with dd perk?

 

why not board a snow with a vic? It's a easy kill with full crew

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20 minutes ago, admin said:

ehm  no

crew advantage must be over 30% - please read the descriptions carefully
Victory crew advantage is more than 30% over snow so the perk wont help the snow.
But snow will never board the victory if victory captain has this perk; even if snow rakes victory to 300 crew left victory will still have 200 more than snow. 

He is referring to Chugs suggestion, not to the determined defenders implementation.

BTW can I ask the reasons why this perk are added back into the game?

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no Rediii you missing the point I think. Right now the DD perk is you cant board unless you have 30% more crew.

 

What im suggesting is keep it as above (maybe with a different %) but ALSO.... or Kill 30% of their crew first. There is a big difference on what effect this would have.

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I like the fact this will stop rage boarding, and Boarding people to stop them in there tracks so friends can catch up to shoot/chain board or boarding them to hold them in place so you can blow yourself up.

Not a huge fan of the fact Smaller ships can't board bigger ships, However from previous battles i would never board a bigger ship in a smaller ship as it would be to much effort i would get his crew low and just sink them these days.

Edited by Bloody Hound

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I have seen many battles (including PBs) in which one side goes to rage boarding non stop.

 

I welcome this perk back again.

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admin if i get you right a conny has to decrew a vic to lass than 300 men (lets make it at least 250 as the conny while decrewing will also lose much crew). You know how long that takes? Even if you are two Connys? players in a 1st will never get boarded by a bunch of frigs again. Im pretty sure. 

Please don't give players a tool to get nearly invincible in a 1st. A 1st is a line and a fleet ship. It shouldn't sail alone. If it does, it should be vulnerable.

Edited by Palatinose
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The decision to board in a large battle is always high risk, to do so implies that the Captain accepts the risk of having his crew decimated by other enemy ships as in the case of the Redoubtable at Trafalgar, or losing the boarding action, or fighting to a standstill as in the case of Serapis and Bonhomme Richard, (Serapis surrendered due to U.S. reinforcement rather than having been beaten outright, and Bonhomme Richard was already sinking at that point anyway) had she not of struck, boarding by another U.S. ship was inevitable.

All three instances are likely outcomes in game, all are legitimate outcomes, after all a captain may board and win yet be boarded by another ship and lose because his crew losses were so severe post boarding being both un-manouverable and unable to defend. That was solely the result of the Captains decision to board the first ship.

Equally in a 3 v1 battle the defending Captain can expect to have his sails shot away, his crew decimated and eventually be sunk or boarded,  unless he can out-sail all three of his opponent's or damage them to the extent that they cannot board or pursue. 

So if a Captain accepts the risks involved in boarding why should he get a 'get out of being boarded' card?

Does that not place a Captain who wants to board a ship seen to have been involved in a boarding action, knowing that ship will be low on crew and possibly less well able to manoeuvre at a disadvantage? 

What Captain would not wish to take advantage of such a situation?

 

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5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Many ships of the line sailed alone in patrol duties.

Show me any 1st rate that consistently had patrol duty without consorts, mainly frigates.

74's did act flag stations indeed.

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4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Many ships of the line sailed alone in patrol duties.

Im not a historian, my information results from reading this forum. Have been talking of 1sts, not of 3rds as it is obviously much easier to decrew a wasa to 300 men than doing so with a Vic (not to speak of Santi or Ocean).

The current defensive boarding mods are really strong, so this perk isn't too much necessary. I agree to Jon here.

It feels like a tool to those that can't board (aka don't know the mechanics) to sail the biggies, fill em up with gunnery and survival mods and never get into the doom of boarding. And that's not in any way balanced sorry.

Edited by Palatinose
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