Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Determined Defender Perk

Recommended Posts

If I can repair my ship and all it’s masts, multiple times, to the point when I’m nearly a fresh ship afterwards....I might as well suspend belief in being able to board anyone at anytime I want.  

We got bigger fish to fry I think.  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue I see with all these type of perks is that you have to decide before you sail out from port whether you are going to be the aggressor or defender so you can set the right perks. Because if you want to defend against being boarded you take the determined defender and barricades etc, and if you dont want to be dismasted you take the stronger mast and sail perks and by the time you have taken all these you have no space left to take offensive perks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason for this perk in the past was cause of gold marines and other gold board modes some one in a light ship can board a much bigger ship and pretty much one shot them even with a large crew diffrence.   We don't have those mods any more so this is going to make it even harding to board some one when your board fit and with eveyr one and there mother running barricades which use to be pretty rare you better not baord some one with more crew than you.  THey can just brace and defend and disengage and a fully board fit ship can't break them down.  If your going to bring back this perk than you need to do somethings.  Bring back Press Gang for one.  Though I think this should be an after battle perk.  When battle is over you get a set amount of crew back for free (would honestly be called something like Surgeon instead).  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not for or against bringing back Determined Defender.  I never used it in the past, and don't really anticipate that changing for the future.  That said, what bit of data or experience brought about this change?  It just seems a bit "out of the blue" to me.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, admin said:

Just like brave Redoutable was able to fend off all boarding attempts from HMS Victory

 

Just only to correct this sentence: actually it was the Redoutable the ship that tried to board the Victory four times and not Victory trying to board Redoutable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never liked Determined Defender, it's a fake feature. Big ships for most of the time were immune from boarding. That means they could go super tank max HP, never get boarded and sail only 8-9 knots... 

I would like to remind admin that when we had determined defender perk in game, we could decrew ship to 0 crew with grapes. Now we have a hard cap of x % when killing crew becomes almost impossible. Both combined... 

Players can protect from rage boarding very easily nowadays by using:

1. Boarding Axes (fast disangage)

2. Barricades (great protection in defense)

3. Marines, always to counter boarders.

4. Book of Five Rings

Edited by Banished Privateer
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Never liked Determined Defender, it's a fake feature. Big ships for most of the time were immune from boarding. That means they could go super tank max HP, never get boarded and sail only 8-9 knots... 

I would like to remind admin that when we had determined defender perk in game, we could decrew ship to 0 crew with grapes. Now we have a hard cap of x % when killing crew becomes almost impossible. Both combined... 

We also had gold Marines, Gold Boarding parties and other mods too that made boarding OP as hell even if you where way out crewed by the other ships. We where almost one shotting 1st rates with rage boards of 4th rates back than.  Now you can't do that.  I had hell of a time boarding a 1st rate the other day with a fully board spec 3rd rates and all he had was Barricades. We pretty much lost equal crew and I had marines and all board mods so there is no more small ships rage boarding and one shotting big ships with OP mods.  You actually have to get support from others if your going to take on a ship with more crew than you.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

We also had gold Marines, Gold Boarding parties and other mods too that made boarding OP as hell even if you where way out crewed by the other ships. We where almost one shotting 1st rates with rage boards of 4th rates back than.  Now you can't do that.  I had hell of a time boarding a 1st rate the other day with a fully board spec 3rd rates and all he had was Barricades. We pretty much lost equal crew and I had marines and all board mods so there is no more small ships rage boarding and one shotting big ships with OP mods.  You actually have to get support from others if your going to take on a ship with more crew than you.

 

Or the boarded player does not understand boarding and attacks into defend etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@admin since we are to test a new perk added can ya'll seed every one with a one time perk reset for free?  I know 50 CM's isn't much but I think any time you add or take away perks in the game for us to test you should give us means to do so, not to mention it will be wiped on the 15th+ any way.   I want to test this or even look at the dang perk desc on an alt but it has no CM and I don't feel like wasting my points on a test for a new feature that may or may not be worth doing a reset and adding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

Or the boarded player does not understand boarding and attacks into defend etc.

but in my example above we both knew what was going on.  If either of us did that than the other would of got the edge on them.  Hell it's how I win majority of my boards without board mods is folks still have no clue what to do in boarding or have almost no prep when the fight starts.

   Maybe have the perk with a penalty to it. Yah I need 30% more crew than you to pull you, but you can't disengage in 4 rounds it takes you 6 instead or something.  To many things in this game have all plus's but no negative.  Are since it's a defensive perk that means they take a penality to attacking or counter attacks in boarding?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Give it -1% speed -30 morale and increase cost to 3 points , People will still use it. That's how unbalanced and overpowered this perk is.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this perk, although I did not use it that often. It helped in preventing pre-mature boarding and prolong the sailing and fire fight part of engagements, which is more enjoyable to me. With this said, some tweaking might be order if this perk appears OP.  

On a related note, it is still strange to see frigates pulling SOL's. Large mismatches in ship class/crew should intuitively be part of mechanics.  

Edited by Stilgar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

As stated, a full crew Connie will not be able to board a full crew Indefetigable.

Realism FTW.

THANKS AGAIN.

I don't think you'd have full crew undamaged ships irl rushing in (rage boarding) to board their opponent as the first move in the engagement anyway. (other than exceptional situations like Speedy v El Gamo). Yes it is a game mechanic, but the idea is you have to cause other damage first which is consistent with real engagements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

Players can protect from rage boarding very easily nowadays by using:

1. Boarding Axes (fast disangage)

2. Barricades (great protection in defense)

3. Marines, always to counter boarders.

4. Book of Five Rings

I don't think a very rare skill book most of us will never see and having to loading up your ships with most/all boarding-related mods can be considered "very easily". 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

I don't think a very rare skill book most of us will never see and having to loading up your ships with most/all boarding-related mods can be considered "very easily". 

 

??? Five rings is the only "rare" and it's not best for that task. All other you can buy in admiralty or find everywhere around. Also often just one of those books is enough to defend succesfully. I guess you're trolling now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Thanks :) Great stuff.

Still, 1st rate consistently going on its own around the "world" on its own without consorts ?...

( there's plenty for 64/68 and 74 and a couple frigates in support - the eyes )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

??? Five rings is the only "rare" and it's not best for that task. All other you can buy in admiralty or find everywhere around. Also often just one of those books is enough to defend succesfully. I guess you're trolling now.

The others might be pretty much free, but you gotta spend your knowledge slots on them to have them.  Still, if you're getting boarded it usually means the other guy already knows he's gonna win anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

The others might be pretty much free, but you gotta spend your knowledge slots on them to have them.  Still, if you're getting boarded it usually means the other guy already knows he's gonna win anyway. 

Recently I killed a guy that boarded me and I had nothing. He had marines and other fancy boarding stuff. As long as you know basics of boarding, you should be fine to disangage. If you're expert, you can kill your enemy.

Edited by Banished Privateer
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Recently I killed a guy that boarded me and I had nothing. He had marines and other fancy boarding stuff. As long as you know basics of boarding, you should be fine to disangage. If you're expert, you can kill your enemy.

So, as I suggested, there isn't an easy answer.  Either you've got the knack for it or not.  I've never figured out the disengage thing - tried that once and just lost more crew, so I've just gone for generating a maximum bodycount price since then.  I also have 300-ish ping, LOL. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

So, as I suggested, there isn't an easy answer.  Either you've got the knack for it or not.  I've never figured out the disengage thing - tried that once and just lost more crew, so I've just gone for generating a maximum bodycount price since then.  I also have 300-ish ping, LOL. 

People that rush disangage consuming all prep become easy targets for attacks and often it gets them killed. First build up prep and be able to defend your ship while disangaging. Big rookie mistake I see often.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@admin we had a fight yesterday - 2 Constis and Wasa against a Bellona with Determined Defender perk. Bellona had this perk, Edinorogs and thickness and maneuverability mods. We had bad ships which we took out to sink (teak/fir, teak/sabicu). 

Before the perk, Bellona was vulnerable mostly to boarding, which is more or less ok.

With this perk though in my opinion he was too hard to kill. Whenever we took down his crew and attempted boarding, he was using rum to get over crew limit and edinorogs to keep us away for approx. 20 minutes (they can penetrate teak/fir Wasa at 85 degrees...). It gives only a very short window for boarding. I expect this will become a new meta, which is not great.

I would suggest to lower determined defender to 20% - it would be strong anyway. We should be able to spot this perk before a boarding attempt as well.

In this scenario Edinorogs are most OP. If you nerf Edinorogs, I guess even 30% determined defender could work. The only good counter against Edinorogs now is to bring your own, or greatly overwhelm the enemy with skill and/or numbers. I say this as someone who has 800 Edinorogs in store (that's approx. 60-mil worth of Edinorogs now).

 

ps. I wouldn't want to have to sail only my 3 Bellonas with the same build :) 

Edited by vazco
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because of stern camping and boarding meta fighting against 1str rate its good perk.

I killed Vic using fir/fir prince some time ago and its so damn silly that you acctualy can do that :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×