Combat rewards tuning

[van Veen]

I propose to tune the combat rewards (marks, money and XP) in the following way:

1. Merge Combat Marks, PVP Marks and Victory Marks into one currency and name it "renown" (or similar). Define an exchange rate between the Mark types and renown (e.g. Combat Mark 1:1, PVP mark 1:2, Victory Mark 1:100) and adjust the shop prices for mods and upgrades accordingly. 
2. Combat rewards (XP, money and renown) should be scaled according to relative fleet battle rating difference and participating captains ranks. The stronger the opponent you fight, the more rewards you should get. A weaker opponent yields less rewards. 

Point 1: Merging marks would greatly simplify the reward system eliminating the need to balance 3 currencies and associated redeemables with each other. Right now, certain powerful mods and ships are only available for players following a certain style of playing. With the merged marks, the type of gameplay (PVE, PVP, RVR) still does not yield the same amount of reward. But everyone has potentially access to certain ships/mods, no matter what preferred gameplay style. 

Point 2: Succeeding in challenging battles should be rewarded higher than in non-challenging (e.g. ganking). As in real life, you will get more respect for fighting and winning against superior forces than for beating noobs. 

[Corona Lisa]

No.

PvE marks = hyper inflation and therefore they are worthless. Why fck up the other 2 working currencies as well?

25 minutes ago, van Veen said:

Right now, certain powerful mods and ships are only available for players following a certain style of playing.

And where is the problem? If you dont do all activities why should you get all rewards easily?

Right now they are still accessible through trading. Actually PvE players can buy PvP marks easy for 200k, while people very rarely sell skillbooks.

[van Veen]

17 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

No.

PvE marks = hyper inflation and therefore they are worthless. Why fck up the other 2 working currencies as well?

And where is the problem? If you dont do all activities why should you get all rewards easily?

Right now they are still accessible through trading. Actually PvE players can buy PvP marks easy for 200k, while people very rarely sell skillbooks.

Imagine you are captain in the navy and you go to the admiralty club after your successful raid on the enemy bringing some fat prices with you. After bragging about it and smoking some fat cigars with your fellow captains, you claim command of the new 1st rate which is being transferred to the carribean. As the best captain in harbor (check your renown account), this is only a just demand. Your wish is granted, but the admiral is not quite sure if this was not a mistake. But anyway, your request is granted, you sail into battle. Now as commander of a 1st rate. Alas, fate is not on your side. Your proud ship is lost, but you finally make it back home after tremendous toil. Once again in the admiralty club, you are pittied by your fellow officers and captains. The admiral now sees his doubts were just and orders you back to blockade station on a frigate. To you, your fate seems unjust, but you also acknowledge that you made too high demands after only one successful battle. Next time you will be more cautious and not make such big demands so quickly. Rather build up some renown in the admiralty to request command of a 3rd rate and get better rigging? Plus the copper plating! Yes, this seems the more prudent decision. Now your mind is clear and you smoke another cigar. Knowing that next time you will be wiser.

 

In this way, a renown (or marks) system makes perfect sense. But why would you need 3 different currencies (plus having a fourth one: money)? This I don't understand. 

PVE marks are hyper inflated because they are easily accessible and there is nothing useful to buy for it. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by van Veen

[Christendom]

I'd rather just get rid of PVP and Victory marks completely.  

[van Veen]

Just now, Christendom said:

I'd rather just get rid of PVP and Victory marks completely.  

And combat marks also?

I propose to merge all of them. So yeah, get rid of 2 of 3 currencies. 

[Christendom]

7 minutes ago, van Veen said:

And combat marks also?

I propose to merge all of them. So yeah, get rid of 2 of 3 currencies. 

I dislike the mark system completely for anything other than ordinary items.  

PVP marks encourage PVP Mark farming.  A quick glance at the tribunal threads shows that it's still happening constantly.  PVP marks also encourage ganking rather than fair fights.  As long as there exclusive items that can be purchased with marks people will abuse the system to get them.  Especially now that wasa's are the main PB ship again.

Victory marks are just a lazy solution to control the amount of ships in PBs instead of proper mechanics.  If anything they are more detrimental to the game than anything they contribute.  Nations are too scared to use 1st rates now against nations that do have them and 1st rates are still so unkillable, especially with poods, that sinking them with anything other than another 1st is difficult.  Thus making PBs more difficult. 

Overall, marks are just a lazy solution for proper in game mechanics that allow a game to function well.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Christendom

[van Veen]

7 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Overall, marks are just a lazy solution for proper in game mechanics that allow a game to function well.

I partly agree with it. But I do see a purpose for a renown (marks) system. 

I think the main problem with the current system is that there are different currencies and there is no gameplay purpose to it. For a game to work, everything must have a meaning. Renown as a currency might be a bit lame, but the concept is valid. Renown should come with success and success should grant access to precious things (e.g. 1st rate permits). Perhaps it would be more subtle if the player never gets to see his renown balance. This way it does not feel like you are "buying" something, but requesting a favor which is granted or rejected depending on your credit. Renown should not be a tradeable item (or perhaps it should? Something like using the influence of a mighty friend to help you get that command?). 

Right now, you can be extremely successful as PVP player and never get a victory mark. You could also be a casual PVE player in a big nation and hoard victory marks for no purpose. This is wrong and broken and must be fixed. 

[Corona Lisa]

1 hour ago, van Veen said:

In this way, a renown (or marks) system makes perfect sense. But why would you need 3 different currencies (plus having a fourth one: money)? This I don't understand. 

Money + PvE marks = basic stuff. I think its good that it is inflated, it means ships are cheap and you dont have to do boring stuff for hours when you lost your ship.

No risk, good reward. You can get a competitive setup to beat anyone only using upgrades available for money and combat marks.

PvP and Victory marks = expensive luxury stuff. High risk and not inflated thats why people can buy new ships by selling PvP marks.

1 hour ago, van Veen said:

PVE marks are hyper inflated because they are easily accessible and there is nothing useful to buy for it. 

Well most of the bowfigures got pretty useless since Rattlesnake is not needed anymore due to thickness change and Gazelle got nerfed really hard.

But its bullshit that there is nothing to buy with combat marks lol

• You need to buy permits with CMs for a lot of ships (Buce, Pavel, Bellona, Wapen ........).
• A ton of skillbooks.
• Blueprints to craft ships and Upgrades like Cartagena or Northern Carpenter.
• Labour hours.

Compared to stuff you can buy with PvP marks:

• 1 useful skill book
• 2 useful permaupgrades
• some ship permits and notes.

So there is much more stuff to buy with Combat Marks, just because its inflated means you dont need to worry to get them.

I am buying constantly Combat Marks to pay for the labour hours our crafter needs to craft ships that I want.

 

TLDR

Money + CM = worthless currency to buy all basic stuff and craft ships = easy ships for everyone

PvP marks = luxury stuff, nice to have but not needed to beat anyone

 

For me this just sounds like you want have everything inflated. I think PvP marks are the only currency in the economy which is still worth something and I dont see why it is good to also make it worthless.

[RaimundoJoe]

2 hours ago, van Veen said:

 

U need to be, in game, swedish to make suggestions!!!

[van Veen]

30 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

PvP marks = luxury stuff, nice to have but not needed to beat anyone

I consider a first rate permission essential not luxury stuff. 

I guess we can agree to disagree here. But thank you for your comments anyway. 

[van Veen]

57 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

U need to be, in game, swedish to make suggestions!!!

Naa, no need to bring any salt into this discussion. I know @Jon Snow lets go can be a stubborn donkey at times, but otherwise he's a nice guy.  

[Corona Lisa]

10 minutes ago, van Veen said:

I consider a first rate permission essential not luxury stuff. 

I guess we can agree to disagree here. But thank you for your comments anyway. 

I agree, thats why I only wrote PvP marks =) I also dont like how Victory marks are atm.

I know the system is not ideal but it also was way worse

[AeRoTR]

I like to have 2 currency. Combat marks and gold.

1 PvP Mark = 50 Pve Mark (cm) this is just a number, could be different.

A carebear can buy a book for 2000 cm, and PVP guy can buy it too, easy.

By the way, I had around 80 pvp marks, so I sometimes do pvp. You kill a ship (6th rate, 10 minutes battle?) you get lets say 5 pvp marks = 250 cm, and you can hunt NPC ship of 3 x bellona +1 3rd rate +.... and you will get maximum 50 combat marks = 1 PVP mark (40 minutes at least)

Do not widen the gap between PVP and PVE players, most of the rare items are for elite PVP players. Who can pay 100pvp mark for an item? = 100x50= 5000 combat marks !!!