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Fun PVP for everyone!

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

People want to pvp and need a funnel and a light friendly push. Your framing/naming is incorrect. When you are practicing in CS this is not getting farmed. Its gaining experience. Sinking and learning and not being afraid to lose when learning is what it is.

I will hope the best :) I still believe. And hope i will be wrong.

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Just now, admin said:

People want to pvp and need a funnel and a light friendly push. Your framing/naming is incorrect. When you are practicing in CS this is not getting farmed. Its gaining experience. Sinking and learning and not being afraid to lose when learning is what it is.

You're right but make it expansive. Please don't just put a single PVP mission on a random part of the map and keep it there for a whole day. Many missions firing off constantly with some urgency to hook the ADHD crowd please :D

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31 minutes ago, admin said:

You make it sound soo easy. Maybe you can provide a video where you easily sink enemies by doing so?  Or maybe just fire up the game and shoot a couple of fresh videos like this? Like easily killing catching up players in 1v3 1v5?
I am not trying to check on you, we are just planning to make a special big guide/section teaching players how you can fight outnumbered. I am particularly interested in quick kills of those who catch up. Will you be so kind?

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that. My 5 slots unlocked ships are mostly pb ships. Not the new meta ships. So I'd have to do a LOT of pve, since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide. Plus grinding more PVE for epic chests would cost me a lot of extra PVE time + pve time of other players.

So do you have a couple of months untill I get to that point? Becasue the mechanics that let me succes fully do the kite/repair/kite trick require me to do a lot of grinding. Including ships that are 5/5.

Edited by Cornelis Tromp

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1 hour ago, admin said:

You make it sound soo easy. Maybe you can provide a video where you easily sink enemies by doing so?  Or maybe just fire up the game and shoot a couple of fresh videos like this? Like easily killing catching up players in 1v3 1v5?
I am not trying to check on you, we are just planning to make a special big guide/section teaching players how you can fight outnumbered. I am particularly interested in quick kills of those who catch up. Will you be so kind?

Write @darkjoker - he should have some vids..

Edited by Bearwall
Because I can

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4 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that.

Oh please... A few days ago I had a fight where I won against 3 enemies on an inger with just 4 knowledge slots, no poods and cheap upgrades (and in a fight next day I got sunk). It's not about your ship, it's about enemy's mistakes. For some reason many people don't believe this, like you. 

4 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide

I'm actually planning on leveling all my remaining ships on PvP only (like I did with last two) , cause it's more fun. 

 

BTW, you can load poods and spanish rig on any ship, it's the only advantage you need. 

Books and upgrades don't  provide you "I win" button, especially when an enemy has an advantage in br. 

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6 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that. My 5 slots unlocked ships are mostly pb ships. Not the new meta ships. So I'd have to do a LOT of pve, since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide. Plus grinding more PVE for epic chests would cost me a lot of extra PVE time + pve time of other players.

So do you have a couple of months untill I get to that point? Becasue the mechanics that let me succes fully do the kite/repair/kite trick require me to do a lot of grinding. Including ships that are 5/5.

Its best just to unlock slots through PvP, it goes by faster than you think ;)

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7 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that. My 5 slots unlocked ships are mostly pb ships. Not the new meta ships. So I'd have to do a LOT of pve, since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide. Plus grinding more PVE for epic chests would cost me a lot of extra PVE time + pve time of other players.

So do you have a couple of months untill I get to that point? Becasue the mechanics that let me succes fully do the kite/repair/kite trick require me to do a lot of grinding. Including ships that are 5/5.

The mindset of grind with PvE until you unlock all slots seems unfortunate.. It's so much faster and more enjoyable with PvP. When the LGV refit came out, I took it from 0 to 3 slots in a few hours of PvP (that's back when it was extremely expensive and rare). Recently I decided I liked the indefatigable, so I took it from 0 to 5 slots all through PvP. Both were mostly solo, a few trips with 1 or 2 others. 

I think the key is your mindset. If you think your enemy is better than you because of his slots and mods, you've already shot yourself in the foot. Gotta be confident in hunting and PvP, or you never get anywhere.

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21 hours ago, admin said:

Hello Captains

We already announced the changes that will improve the hostility missions and victory mark distribution in game, giving everyone equal footing. Individual port ownership will grant you victory marks and even owning one port will make your conquest efforts count. You will no longer be limited by your nation capabilities and your small clan can influence the conquest, and get rewarded even if you are the only clan in your nation.

Now it is time to improve pvp itself.

In one patch a new type of mission will be added to the game. This mission will completely change the mechanics and motivation behind progression and will route the player to one of the most fun and varied activity in the game.

PvP missions will reward player based on the damage he was able to inflict on enemy shipping. PvP missions will reward the player with ships, repairs and small amount of pvp marks. The goal is to remove gear fear from pvp and motivate fighting, not ship preservance. 

Example of the mission for the light frigates

La Mona Naval Patrol

  • Captain: Your task is to inflict as much damage as possible on the enemy players shipping in the designated areas of the Caribbean. Running is discouraged, preservation of your vessel is not important! Assigned ships Cerberus, Renomme, Surprise.
  • Goal: Inflict 5000 damage on enemy shipping in the area.
  • Rewards: Random light frigate note, 30 rig repairs, 30 hull repairs, 250 rum, 5 pvp marks, combat ready upgrade, some money for fitting and guns.

The player will have to arrive to the designated area, damage enemy ships and probably sink as a result, but he will learn something. Of course due to 2.5x pvp xp bonuses he will be leveling up faster and such navy patrols will help him recover losses.

This feature will be further underlined by the fact that tutorial master exam will award the player with the M&C rank making him immediately useful + such missions will route him to the most fun activity in game. 

 

Discuss. 

This is a good direction finnaly. Making everything nation dependad wont work in the long term.

About missions, it's not enough. Make it so that when you pick a PvP mission you automatically also get it's PvE version. For example raid the commerce around port A. Sink or capture 2000 BR enemy ships etc. This way even if there wont PvP availble, you will still have something to do and most importantly you will create content for other people. This one person could be a start for the PvP for which you encourage.

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2 minutes ago, Borch said:

Make it so that when you pick a PvP mission you automatically also get it's PvE version. For example raid the commerce around port A. Sink or capture 2000 BR enemy ships etc. This way even if there wont PvP availble, you will still have something to do and most importantly you will create content for other people. This one person could be a start for the PvP for which you encourage.

thats a good idea.. maybe you are right that patrol the area damage should not be depended on the pvp only damage, in this case if enemies are not there you can still feel progress

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11 hours ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

I'd first need to grind up ships to 5 slots to be capable of doing that. My 5 slots unlocked ships are mostly pb ships. Not the new meta ships. So I'd have to do a LOT of pve, since pvp with 1 slot ship vs 5 slots is mostly suicide. Plus grinding more PVE for epic chests would cost me a lot of extra PVE time + pve time of other players.

So do you have a couple of months untill I get to that point? Becasue the mechanics that let me succes fully do the kite/repair/kite trick require me to do a lot of grinding. Including ships that are 5/5.

I leveled most of my ships through PvP, starting mostly with 1 slot, sometimes 0. Broken PvE mindset and soon you will mention that you need to put copper plating, because you stand no chance against players with copper plating, right?

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As long as you only smash seals you dont need any slots on any kind of ship. Speed is only needed for getting away from revengefleet and repair/mast mods are only needed in battle with somebody who knows what he does.

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58 minutes ago, admin said:

thats a good idea.. maybe you are right that patrol the area damage should not be depended on the pvp only damage, in this case if enemies are not there you can still feel progress

You should be able to progress if noone fights you, however creating hostility-like missions won't work for a few reasons:

  • once you're in a mission, you're much more vulnerable if someone joins in
  • this way you encourage PvE, not PvP. People will probably find a way to get missions in areas where nobody is there

A better option would be to create an empty missions which everyone can join... It's still not perfect though.

A system would really work once it allows you to get 2-20 players in the same area to fight, and once it's clear to every participant that he will probably find someone at the location and that it's worth to sail there.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

thats a good idea.. maybe you are right that patrol the area damage should not be depended on the pvp only damage, in this case if enemies are not there you can still feel progress

I'm really astonished! First PvP Marks for only done damage. now PvP Marks for PvE ...

The second is a little bit much in my opinion ...

Im repeating me: why bind it to a mission? Why not reward the noob in front of his capital for the heroic fighting and sinking against the ganking fleet? 

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17 hours ago, Liq said:

What prevents players from bringing lineship fleets to the area where others get their frigate missions? This idea here will work worse than pvp event

Pvp event was fix, players knew when it was, where it was. Now the pvp missions will be different for everyone and chance of actually meeting someone will be significantly lower

But im happy to test and get proven wrong

I don`t know.

The whole idea is based on one single question: "How to motivate people to sail out, do PVP, reward them appropriately , even if they lose?" So, doing damage on an enemy, and getting rewarded for it, might be a proper ignition.

As you know, most players rather sit in safezones and ports, and idolise their fancy boats, instead looking for action. That seem to be understandable, since many upgrades cost more than the ship... On the other hand, what purpose has each warship in this game if it`s not used by his owner? Why the hell players collect 20 ships, look at them all day long, or every time they log in, but rarely sail out and "shoot something" else than bots?

So, finding balance, between the loss and reward, could be the step in the right direction,although many others are needed too.But that would be another topic.

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These are great changes!

Wasn't a big fan of the PVP zones when they were here but I still went and I will go to the new ones. I am more excited about the hostility Mission changes which are going to turn this game inside out and in a fantastic way and a great New Direction!!!!

When will this be implemented? When is Christmas coming? 😀

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3 hours ago, vazco said:

You should be able to progress if noone fights you, however creating hostility-like missions won't work for a few reasons:

  • once you're in a mission, you're much more vulnerable if someone joins in
  • this way you encourage PvE, not PvP. People will probably find a way to get missions in areas where nobody is there

A better option would be to create an empty missions which everyone can join... It's still not perfect though.

A system would really work once it allows you to get 2-20 players in the same area to fight, and once it's clear to every participant that he will probably find someone at the location and that it's worth to sail there.

On first point, the same way you're more vulnerable when you enter PvP fight and someone joins in. No difference really.

On second point, this will encourage sailing out of safe zone and not haveing the feel of lost time whenever you wont find PvP to finish your mission. They are out of safe zone. Go and find them in that lone spot. Also I expect more players in the game after release so those lone spots will be much harder to find that it is now.

3 hours ago, Trino said:

I'm really astonished! First PvP Marks for only done damage. now PvP Marks for PvE ...

The second is a little bit much in my opinion ...

Im repeating me: why bind it to a mission? Why not reward the noob in front of his capital for the heroic fighting and sinking against the ganking fleet? 

Nobody said that this PvE needs to reward PvP marks. Rewards could be different but certainly need to be better than for usuall PvE in safe zone.

Also yes, missions should be a small push into sailing out of safe zone but damaging enemy in PvP combat should always give you some rewards. No mission needed for that.

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2 hours ago, Borch said:

On first point, the same way you're more vulnerable when you enter PvP fight and someone joins in. No difference really.

The difference is that PvP fight closes after 2 minutes, this would have to stay open - like hostility.

 

2 hours ago, Borch said:

On second point, this will encourage sailing out of safe zone and not haveing the feel of lost time whenever you wont find PvP to finish your mission.

This feeling would be still there. In other section of the forum you can find people organizing PvP fights to flip ports, since they hate hostility mechanics. Putting PvE mission in order to give something to someone who wants PvP is a very bad patch for a problem. Instead, a system should guarantee that on the place of your mission someone will be there, or that you will get notified that probably noone will and you shouldn't bother.

 

2 hours ago, Borch said:

Also I expect more players in the game after release so those lone spots will be much harder to find that it is now.

In the current state the game is a leaking bucket, which leaks players. In order to make this game great, devs still need to handle just this one user story:

As a PvP player I want to be able to have a meaningful (and fun/epic/engaging) PvP action with my friends, within 30 minutes of logging into the game.

Once this is possible, all the rest will fall into place - as PvP action is really great already when it happens (which is rare now).

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Just now, vazco said:

In the current state the game is a leaking bucket, which leaks players. In order to make this game great, devs still need to handle just this one user story:

As a PvP player I want to be able to have a meaningful (and fun/epic/engaging) PvP action with my friends, within 30 minutes of logging into the game.

Once this is possible, all the rest will fall into place - as PvP action is really great already when it happens (which is rare now).

You are so right about this. The biggest thing that draws me away from this game is just how much time I can put in with no results. There is nothing solid or sacred in PVP. No borders, no hotspots. No epic wars to speak of. It's almost all pirate like hunting that has bleed my enjoyment from this game.

As far as any new player knows, there is nothing going on in the world of NA. Take a look at the map, do you see any action? Nope.

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Yep i want to sink for a reason. A meaningless dot on the map is no reason to press sail and face 5 other players the same time.

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21 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Yep i want to sink for a reason. A meaningless dot on the map is no reason to press sail and face 5 other players the same time.

On the other hand imagine if you could:

  • launch PvP missions which if successful, would influence eg. enemy's port, and give you some of their profit, or some limited power over them - eg. open their port for some time (Cartagena, Copper, French sails :)
  • increase your PvP rank thanks to fighting in challenging PvP battles, and thanks to your high PvP rank:
    • have bragging rights to be one of the best in the game, being listed publicly (like PvP list)
    • get access to unique visual upgrades (stupid idea - red/grey/dark sails :P )
    • have unique icon on the forum
    • have somewhat increased difficulty level to increase a challenge for you, in the same time giving you a bonus if you succeed (eg. your enemies get smaller penalty to PvP marks for sinking you with larger BR advantage, but you get 20% more gold from PvP)

 

A gamification system is good if when you progress, you gain:

  • public recognition (fame)
  • unique  rewards which others don't have (eg. visuals or some small advantage)
  • have control over others (eg. you're able to be a moderator, set some game mechanisms etc.)

Then you don't need hard rewards to motivate people - they act to get access to power, recognition and elite status.

Edited by vazco
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4 minutes ago, vazco said:

On the other hand imagine if you could:

  • launch PvP missions which if successful, would influence eg. enemy's port, and give you some of their profit, or some limited power over them - eg. open their port
  • increase your PvP rank thanks to fighting in challenging PvP battles, and thanks to your high PvP rank:
    • have bragging rights to be one of the best in the game, being listed publicly (like PvP list)
    • get access to unique visual upgrades (stupid idea - red/grey/dark sails :P )
    • have unique icon on the forum

 

A gamification system is good if when you progress, you gain:

  • public recognition (fame)
  • unique  rewards which others don't have (eg. visuals or some small advantage)
  • have control over others (eg. you're able to be a moderator, set some game mechanisms etc.)

Then you don't need hard rewards to motivate people - they act to get access to power, recognition and elite status.

that would make to much sense and offer to much depth. we cant have that. its not simple enough ;-) Even a stupid captains log would be nice with some achivements.

xx battles yy won zz lost ii escaped

Edited by z4ys

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Ok, let's try this new idea. I'm afraid it's just going to provide a short term increase in opportunities for the PVP pros to find and kill the PVP amateurs. A few amateurs may become pros but for most, they'll realize they have little chance to win and there's no meaning in their death. So, no change.

I am personally skeptical that there is a solution for significantly increasing the percentage of players who want to PVP with the current game. It's going to be a bell curve always. We all fall somewhere on the scale of 0 desire (should probably be on the PVE server) to 10 (damn the torpedoes I'm going to fight no matter the odds). No fiddling with rewards, free ships, cheap ships, missions, durabilities, safe zones, mods or no mods, is going to change the curve in a significant way. If one thinks they are going to lose -- sink -- many/most will avoid the fight even if everything they lose will be replaced for free. We humans don't like to lose. We especially won't risk losing when we feel like the deck is stacked against us. We just won't play (PVP) in that instance. 

There are two situations in a game -- and in life -- where self sacrifice happens. 1) Loyalty to your buddy. I know I've stayed in or joined a battle when I could escape because a teammate was in trouble, even though I knew that it probably meant I would be sunk. 2) Loyalty to nation. We see this in port battles and screening but sinking the enemy at great sacrifice in OW means little to our nation or the war effort. We just don't have an economy that interdiction of trade and those who protect it, and killing those who raid it matters. Changes have been suggested in many threads that will increase content, and therefore increase the number of PVPers because game population increases but dealing with anything other than combat and sailing models doesn't seem to interest the Devs. So, this will always be a small population game. Small population will always equal small number of PVPers.

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2 hours ago, vazco said:

The difference is that PvP fight closes after 2 minutes, this would have to stay open - like hostility.

Well from what I understood its not going to be classic mission like we have today where they are being created upon taking one in port. I understand its taking mission to be rewarded for damaging various players and in case of PvE sinking npc's sailing around said port.

This feeling would be still there. In other section of the forum you can find people organizing PvP fights to flip ports, since they hate hostility mechanics. Putting PvE mission in order to give something to someone who wants PvP is a very bad patch for a problem. Instead, a system should guarantee that on the place of your mission someone will be there, or that you will get notified that probably noone will and you shouldn't bother.

Those are 2 different things. PvE mission is there to give you some content in the game and provide some rewards in case when you dont find PvP to finish your PvP mission. You are talking here about PvP being availible straight away on 1 press button. If you make it the way you think you may as well just go into instanced PvP like NA Legends. Its OW multiplayer game. Its still about providing incentives for people to sail more often and to make PvP opportunity happen more often.

 

In the current state the game is a leaking bucket, which leaks players. In order to make this game great, devs still need to handle just this one user story:

As a PvP player I want to be able to have a meaningful (and fun/epic/engaging) PvP action with my friends, within 30 minutes of logging into the game.

Once this is possible, all the rest will fall into place - as PvP action is really great already when it happens (which is rare now).

You can have exactly that in NA Legends and in fleet practice currently. In my opinion its more about giving players something to do while looking for PvP. If players dont understand that sometimes in this sandbox MMO they wont find PvP then ofc they will leave the game.

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