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Unequal battles

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1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

@victor

That's what I said several posts before, if you read it all through. ( it helps to grasp the context )

Many different players fight for different reasons.

Hence you must assume always that you are a part of it all with your own unique and individual opinion that can be the same as many others.

As a sugarcoating - you can have all my pvp marks for all I care is to emulate age of sail experience.

S!

I wouldn't annoy you with quidditas and haecceitas, but there's a thing in logic reasoning called "analogy" and "categories" that usually helps in finding solutions that concern categories of persons or things.

I belong to the category of persons that now DO NOT engage in PVP since they are likely to loose, while you do not.

And that's basically the reason why, in this context, my opinion is more likely to be shared by the category that I belong to than yours.

As far as the marks are concerned, we have a deal ... is delivery in Tumbado ok for you?

Edited by victor

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7 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

Average players have no chance versus experienced players. CptReverse and others demonstrate this day in day out.

Yesterday we had an arranged battle vs Reverse and some "PvE players" with us. When we started losing they said "We had no chance anyway, its Reverse." It was an equal battle. They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

If you are a noob you have the chance to learn and beat them the next time.

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Just now, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yesterday we had an arranged battle vs Reverse and some "PvE players" with us. When we started losing they said "We had no chance anyway, its Reverse." It was an equal battle. They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

If you are a noob you have the chance to learn and beat them the next time.

Now we are complete, what we missed was actually the good old "git gud" argument stepping in the discussion

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11 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Ideally, yes, but that would make you sad so I stopped seriously asking for it.

Nah, all good. Let's try it.

@victor funny part is, let's say we both engage in PvP in a battle. My opinion on why that battle happened and why we fought and why the result was what it was will be totally different from yours. So no, no need to slice demographics into groups. 

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Just now, victor said:

Now we are complete, what we missed was actually the good old "git gud" argument stepping in the discussion

victor plz, all I said is losing is learning.

And if you dont even try or look at your mistakes you cant get better.

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3 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yesterday we had an arranged battle vs Reverse and some "PvE players" with us. When we started losing they said "We had no chance anyway, its Reverse." It was an equal battle. They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

If you are a noob you have the chance to learn and beat them the next time.

That is a sad story.

I would say the degree of learning possibility depends on the situation.

1. If you get ganked in your PVE SoL by 2-3 experienced frigates, you probably learn nothing except not sailing out of the green zone.

2. In an arranged and fair fight, you should always be able to learn something, especially if you have experienced players on both sides.

I thnk the problems the admins mention are the first ones.

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3 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

victor plz, all I said is losing is learning.

And if you dont even try or look at your mistakes you cant get better.

how can I look at my mistakes when I have no reward at all (and only loss) in having the chance to learn?

A game must be funny, not a work or a commitment!

Edited by victor
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15 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

... dont even try or look at your mistakes you cant get better.

@admin pls give replay option!

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10 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yesterday we had an arranged battle

Tap out or full loss?

12 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

I've spent most of my fighting time in this game losing to better players in the hope of learning at least one thing I can improve. Even so, I truly and fully understand that mentality. I'd even describe it as normal and I believe most players are in that place. In a loss based OW where gear matter as much as it does, IF you want to motivate PVP; It will take a lot to change that collective psychology.

To be abundantly clear, Jon, I'm not arguing with you. I think we want the same thing.

@victor, you're freaking me out! I'm used to fighting you on all things sandbox, eco, PVE and "depth". Now I completely agree with you!? :P Wait! If we sit at the same side of the table we must be on to something, eh?

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20 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Nah, all good. Let's try it.

@victor funny part is, let's say we both engage in PvP in a battle. My opinion on why that battle happened and why we fought and why the result was what it was will be totally different from yours. So no, no need to slice demographics into groups. 

Here devs asked how to incentivate carebears to enter into PVP even if they loose, I'm a carebear that generally avoids PVP since I will likely loose, while you are a PVP player that actively seeks PVP for winning, so - in answering the question of the devs - my personal opinion does count more than yours.

If you do not see why, I just hope devs will. Point is that if the devs try to solve noobs and/or carebears problems listening to what veteran PVPers say, it's crystal clear why they will not solve those problems

I stop here.

Edited by victor
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4 minutes ago, victor said:

Here devs asked how to incentivate carebears to enter into PVP even if they loose, I'm a carebear that generally avoids PVP since theywill likely loose, while you are a PVP players that actively seeks PVP for winning, so - in answering the question of the devs - my personal opinion does count more than yours.

If you do not see why, I just hope devs will. Point is that if the devs try to solve noobs and/or carebears problems listening to what veteran PVPers say, it's crystal clear why they will not solve those problems

I stop here.

i believe Heth lost more ships in ganks than you did. So why should heths opinion not count?

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4 minutes ago, victor said:

I stop here.

Please, don't stop.

5 minutes ago, victor said:

Point is that if the devs try to solve noobs and/or carebears problems listening to what veteran PVPers say

Veteran PVP'ers don't need motivation. Admin already pretty much knows what they will say, anyway.

How can we help "noobs" and "carebears" to try PVP and keep on PVP'ing?

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17 minutes ago, victor said:

I'm a carebear that generally avoids PVP since I will likely loose

What would make you change your mind ?

That's what has been asked, to you specifically :) 

Please answer. Don't chase my tail, I'm a beagle with a temper.

 

P.S. - everyone needs motivation to Play the Game ;)

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yesterday we had an arranged battle vs Reverse and some "PvE players" with us. When we started losing they said "We had no chance anyway, its Reverse." It was an equal battle. They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

If you are a noob you have the chance to learn and beat them the next time.

+1

Everyone starts from 0 experience at some point.. of course you lose in the beginning (no matter what upgrades or gear you got; thats not an "I WIN" button). But eventually you will get better (or just alt f4 because you dont want to learn, game is not for you then)

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They game could use some of the mechanics DAoC had - it incentivized people to participate in massive battles that could go on for hours. The numbers dilute the skills of the 'elite' players and make it fun for all.

Edited by Le Raf Boom
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10 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

What would make you change your mind ?

That's what has been asked, to you specifically :) 

Please answer. Don't chase my tail, I'm a beagle with a temper.

 

P.S. - everyone needs motivation to Play the Game ;)

 

 

 

One PVP mark if I loose and make at least "X" damage to the winner (and maybe one more if make "Y" damage to the winner). "X" and "Y" can be set in a way that simple passive bystanders and surrenders are not rewarded (and that the more I come close to win the fight, the more I get PVP marks).

This way I would be able to self-craft all the ships I can "spend" in PVP fights outside the green zone of my homewaters. I will sink happy until (if ever) I will learn

 

Edited by victor
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16 hours ago, admin said:

money must be added - agree!

The equivalent must be removed somewhere else, to promote pvp revenue as main source of income.

Forcing players to do pvp will not get us anywhere. You make players go pvp by bringing content to it as final reward. 

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22 minutes ago, victor said:

.. surrenders are not rewarded ...

 

 

You can fight a guy for 1:20h and then he surrenders and you get nothing? that would highly encourage me to pvp - true^^

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20 hours ago, admin said:

we did not ask players to propose buffs by the way :)
buffs are out of the question

We asked about combat methods - (which of course will work both ways).
For example. Huge gun loss on bow or stern raking can be used by both sides, but skilled player will position better and use raking more often = will disable numerous enemies before they are able to use raking fire against him. 
 

This makes no sense. 

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17 hours ago, admin said:

My heart bleeds when i see 2 bellonas running away from 1 wasa and 3 trincomalee
They run without shooting
They lose sails in process
And once they slow down they start fighting
But its too late!!! They lost all combat capability because they did nothing for 20 mins of running

If they did not run they have a huge chance to win. But they dig their grave by running and doing nothing. 

How do we change it?
 

Well, that is your pvp concept working as intended. 1 dura my friend is a game killer. They afraid to loose their (1 dura)ship, here is your answer. They would turn and fight knowing their hard earned work will have another chance. This was addressed on these forums for months, but no one wants to hear it. Btw, they prob quit after they got sunk. I can also suggest insurance. 

Edited by H2O
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3 minutes ago, H2O said:

1 dura my friend is a game killer. They afraid to loose their (1 dura)ship, here is your answer.

No, it isn't. Same behaviour could be noticed when we had multiple duras. 1 dura is just perfect.

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22 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

People ran away with 5 duras all the same.

But by the sea gods, bring the duras back as it seems a recurrent obstacle to many to put a ship on the line.

 

It works, even I pvped more knowing I have to spend less time replacing losses. 

 

21 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

No, it isn't. Same behaviour could be noticed when we had multiple duras. 1 dura is just perfect.

Great, thanks for your opinion. Everything counts. Your 1 dura causing Admin to ask for solutions. Clearly working fine. 

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39 minutes ago, H2O said:

1 dura my friend is a game killer.

Bullshit. 5 super mario lives devalued ships that had less than 5 super mario lives left. If they ever bring back multiple duras i'll uninstall and give the game a negative review with every single one of my alt accounts. Multi-dura is garbage, unrealistic and I am glad it is gone. One of their best choices to remove this - it didn't do anything other than devalue ships that weren't 5/5.

Edited by Landsman
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3 minutes ago, H2O said:

It works, even I pvped more knowing I have to spend less time replacing losses. 

 

3 minutes ago, H2O said:

Great, thanks for your opinion. Everything counts. Your 1 dura causing Admin to ask for solutions. Clearly working fine. 

there is really no difference between 1 dura ship and 5 dura ship. What was good on 5 dura ships is that you could take of mods after you lost 4 duras. Dura of ships are not the problem. Nobody cares about the ship ( except maybe 2nd rate and 1 rates) But mods are the real problem.

Edited by z4ys
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