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Unequal battles

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6 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Add marks for doing things such as shooting sails and crew kills.  Make all players who are in the winning side get a mark.

why you want to reward in a 5vs1 where the 5 win all 5?

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Oh please no ridiculous suggestions

One of the oldest navy phrases is
No Prey No Pay!
Live with it please :)

 

ps we give you xp and gold

i have literally no need for XP in any regard whatsoever. and same for gold. i get nothing. no reward for the risk to go out. if you think this is ridiculous. then i am getting on a row boat and setting off from this sinking ship because the captain is telling its crew to let her sink. 

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Why are there no PvP missions? You set the objective, fleet or ship comp and pay big bucks for completing them. E.G. Take any 5th rate and sink a 5th rate or above, within one battle, however you like. Make completing the missions tied to a larger overall ship access feature. You want to command a fourth rate, you need to sink enemies in 5th's to get access. People may hem and haw, but it will get people out there fighting. Who knows how well you tune it, it could be highly profitable or rewarding.

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I can see an exploitation potential....  but as a daily...  "sorry you killed that same player for this mission yesterday we are demoting you 1 rank :)  "

 

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The pvp mission as a daily might be enough to pushem out of the nest... if the rewards are decent.

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E.V.E just added this Agency thing, basically a mission finder for lazy people to give them something to do. I've been playin E.V.E all day.

I would hop into some NA, but once I get in I just look at the map like "wtf am I suppose to do". There's no objective and that's a bad thing

inb4 the objective is whatever you want it to be

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Ok. So @admin, i keep seeing you say gold and xp are rewards. But lets all be honest here, xp is worthless to probably everyone on this forum, but worthwhile to those that arent max rank. But most people that are avid PVPers are Max rank, so xp is pointless LATE GAME. Which is most of naval action. And gold? I am not the richest person on this page, with only a few tens of mill, but make no mistake, if i only had 100k gold id have no reason to spend it. Gold is POINTLESS in this game. When i need a ship 20 people volunteer their labor hours and mats for me. When they need a ship, i do the same. Maybe its the dutch mentality, but anyone saying gold is valuable in this game is hanging with the wrong people. AND THIS HASNT EVEN ADDRESSED HOW EASY GOLD IS TO OBTAIN. Ill earn more gold PVE than PVP. Why? because PVP battles last over an hour, sometimes 2 because these "top players" meta is either fast and run, or tanky, but that has been nerfed, so that is good now. I might get 2 mill off of a pvp battle in 2 hours. Or i could get 500k every 20 minutes in PVE doing fleet missions, and just let it sit in my bank because im NEVER GOING TO USE IT anyway. 

Reward losses. When I sank in a rennomee someone gave me, after killing over a thousand crew, hundreds of sail hits, and very few hull hits, because well, 12pdrs at the time couldnt penetrate an ocean, or a buc, or a bellona, which is what we were up against, I got nothing. except xp and gold. big hello kittying woop. No one gives a single hello kitty about gold or XP. I WASTED 2 HOURS of my life. I said never again while I am earning my degree, because I literally dont have that amount of time to sink. This is why your playerbase is shrinking.  

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

money must be added - agree!

The equivalent must be removed somewhere else, to promote pvp revenue as main source of income.

I agree with this.  Sad reality of the game is that it is much more lucrative to do pve than pvp.  I trade gunnery encyclopedia component books or book of 5 rings components for 4 VM each book.  Not to mention all the other books, money  and refits I get from pve.  To put this in perspective, I can do lots of pb with my clan and take part in them, hope my nation is ranked in top 3 to maybe get 1-3 VM per week or, on the other side, do a few PVE missions and get a book to trade for almost 4 weeks of pb fights...

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People do PvE all day and kill ships and get better at it. Problem is NPCs have super low thickness, so shots who would penetrate in PvE will bounce off in PvP.

So people coming from PvE and trying PvP suddenly cant damage the enemy anymore.

This + bad patterns due to AI is the main reason imo why a lot of PvE makes you a worse player.

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

E.V.E just added this Agency thing, basically a mission finder for lazy people to give them something to do. I've been playin E.V.E all day.

I would hop into some NA, but once I get in I just look at the map like "wtf am I suppose to do". There's no objective and that's a bad thing

inb4 the objective is whatever you want it to be

you bring up a very good point. The NA map is massive. and literally 90% blue. its pretty for the first day or two. then its old. with nothing to do solo, or in small groups. The map needs to be populated with treasure, events, pirate hunts, top pvp player locations occasionally, stormy weather, maybe a few sea monsters to look at, but not interact with. idk. stuff to make people go beyond safe zones.

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13 minutes ago, Rabman said:

Why are there no PvP missions? You set the objective, fleet or ship comp and pay big bucks for completing them. E.G. Take any 5th rate and sink a 5th rate or above, within one battle, however you like. Make completing the missions tied to a larger overall ship access feature. You want to command a fourth rate, you need to sink enemies in 5th's to get access. People may hem and haw, but it will get people out there fighting. Who knows how well you tune it, it could be highly profitable or rewarding.

Good idea, this could be implement like a duel they had before wipe.  Players could be matched with other player seeking same objective.  Obviously ships can be lost but it would help.

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Even in WoW, where a PvP death costs you nothing other than a couple of minutes of down time, people ran from PvP.

For a casual player like myself, losing a ship represents a decent percentage of my net worth in the game. I am at 2/5 knowledge slots on a couple ships, and more importantly, I suck. You will start seeing me in PvP in throwaway ships, but because I have never done it much, I am going to lose. A lot. Two ships a day, three...crafting and buying those over and over will really tax my limited playing time while I learn.

We don't all have $50 million or more. You are asking the sheep to throw themselves to the wolves until they become wolves themselves. And that is fine. But just understand that, when I do that tonight, and I sink a time or two, tomorrow I will have to spend my limited playtime rebuilding. And you know what? That is awesome. Sinking should matter. It should sting. However, I get why many people don't want to do it. It isn't just a quick corpse run from a graveyard.

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@admin growing up, I learned first literally, then later I realized it applies to much more. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink it. Same for PVE players. Accept it or kill off your playerbase. Maybe you can get them to blindly stumble into it through more events on the open ocean causing them to run into more PVP players, and that would be fine, but trying to force players to PVP, is not really all that possible. The more player interactions there are, the more pvp there will be. 

Want proof? Go look at us Dutch. Go look at the people that join and inevitably leave. We are too far from PVP, we try to sail out, put outposts in free ports, and open ports, to get players to fight pvp. But those that stay dutch, for the most part arent really looking to sailing 5 hours out of their way for pvp because they dont want it that much. When the danes come and gank us with 25+ players, then cry all over the forums that we out number them? (still really hello kittying confused about that one) we do what we can, because at least then it is in our water. But otherwise, we have found you cant force people to PVP, and if it isnt in our area, it isnt going to happen. Seems like common sense to me. 

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25 minutes ago, z4ys said:

why you want to reward in a 5vs1 where the 5 win all 5?

It encourages people to take part in battles. New players don’t learn the ropes by going out solo.  Players who shoot sails or kill crew should share in the effort

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Just now, Christendom said:

It encourages people to take part in battles. New players don’t learn the ropes by going out solo.  Players who shoot sails or kill crew should share in the effort

Still i dont see any reason to encourage ganking even more.

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1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Still i dont see any reason to encourage ganking even more.

PvP marks already encourage ganking.  There is no escaping it.  Might as well make a bad system more fair

Edited by Christendom

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10 minutes ago, OneEyedSnake said:

@admin growing up, I learned first literally, then later I realized it applies to much more. You can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink it. Same for PVE players. Accept it or kill off your playerbase. Maybe you can get them to blindly stumble into it through more events on the open ocean causing them to run into more PVP players, and that would be fine, but trying to force players to PVP, is not really all that possible. The more player interactions there are, the more pvp there will be. 

Want proof? Go look at us Dutch. Go look at the people that join and inevitably leave. We are too far from PVP, we try to sail out, put outposts in free ports, and open ports, to get players to fight pvp. But those that stay dutch, for the most part arent really looking to sailing 5 hours out of their way for pvp because they dont want it that much. When the danes come and gank us with 25+ players, then cry all over the forums that we out number them? (still really hello kittying confused about that one) we do what we can, because at least then it is in our water. But otherwise, we have found you cant force people to PVP, and if it isnt in our area, it isnt going to happen. Seems like common sense to me. 

This is something that has nagged at me for a long time as well.  Its all well and good that we use a historic and accurate map, but in the end its imbalanced for any number of reasons.   Nations too far from one another, some with a linear coast that has you starting at one end and having to travel all the way to the other before you reach anything non-national, others an island in the middle of the universe ....

 

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46 minutes ago, admin said:

money must be added - agree!

The equivalent must be removed somewhere else, to promote pvp revenue as main source of income.

A suggestion that may help with increasing pvp is making some books pvp only but with a system like with rank xp.  To get art of ship you need to get 200 pvp xp  (not by buying them) but by winning them in battles.  This is offered only once so they cannot be traded repeatedly and would be learned immediately.  This can be done for a number of books.  Some books that are used in refits could be bought repeatedly (like treatise on square rigs).  Give  a small % of pvp xp even if you lose to encourage participation.  This non tradable pvp xp account would be separate from the pvp marks.       

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4 hours ago, Toto Cabbage said:

Its not only a matter of upgreades and mods but cooperation and good sailing. People that get defeated in battles like sommerset usualy blame everything but not themselves.

IMHO current state of the game PvP wise is very good. With multiple repairs skilled players can outplay a larger group of less skilled. The only thing i miss is an option to somehow avoid being revenge ganked. 30 second times is sadly not enough to escape from this. Im also thinking of making chain shot limited, but increase their sail damage.

Did i ever tell you that i love you? If not, i love you <3

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I think in most ceses newbies are afraid to lose their ships so they always run or not leave safe zones. And they dont get consolation prize that can make them replace losses.

In War Thunder you recive gold and exp for dealing dmg no mather if you win or lost (i didnt play this game lately so i hope im not wrong).

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1 hour ago, SKurj said:

I am in agreement no pvp marks for a loss... but why not gold in place of?  If I do damage equal to the hp of my own ship (or 2x), perhaps i should get gold enough to replace it?  Maybe thats too much...  but not given it alot of thought....

 

I don't think making money from losing in pvp should start with having to go and capture a freeb 5th rate tho...

 

People that do not do PVP usually have a crapton more gold than PVPers. They do not need gold and even less they need combat marks.

That's the reason why if you do not give PVP marks (even just one) for a pvp loss you will not induce carebears to PVP.

Believe me: I am a carebear (trader and crafter and some fleeting around) - with some like 4000 hours in this game - and the only thing that could induce me to happily sink in PVP more than I do now (which is not much of course) would be getting a PVP mark if I am at least able to give a good fight.

ANY other "carrot" solution is not likely to take carebears out of the shell (while too harsh "stick" solutions could take them out of the game).

If a player is sure that he will sink, and sink, and sink, and sink, with no reward (actual reward)... why would he just keep trying PVP when he can do other things to get other rewards? But .... Give me a PVP mark and I will be happy to grab the first ship I find the in shop and go kamikaze!  And maybe I will finally learn to PVP 

PS: and to compensate the PVPers, add more gold for the victory in PVP. A PVP mark also for the PVP looser and (much) MORE GOLD for the PVP winner. That should balance the thing. Giving each kind of player what he has not, not more of what he has already. That is the key in my opinion.

Edited by victor
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If you want to promote PVP.

Make daylies and weekllies, I mean: Sink 10 players in frigates. Rewards: One silver chest/ X upgrade/ X gold/...

 

But if you really want to promote pvp, you should make some woods faster to obtain/transport. Also more drop of materials made for upgrading our ships.

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