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Unequal battles

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3 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Bullshit. 5 super mario lives is a game killer and devalues ships that have less than 5 super mario lives left. If they ever bring back multiple duras i'll uninstall and give the game a negative review with every single one of my alt accounts. Multi-dura is garbage, unrealistic and I am glad it is gone. One of their best choices to remove this - I didn't do anthing other than devalue ships that weren't 5/5.

So, keep chasing people who do not want to fight and make them quit faster. That is not my problem. 767 down from 900. 

Edited by H2O

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Watch the mechanics that put ships in the sea, sailing and braving the unknown on the horizon. Make them part of the game again. PvP will happen, whether a player wants it or not.

The moment you press "Sail" you know that it can happen at any time. No matter if 5 duras, no matter if pvp marks...

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29 minutes ago, z4ys said:

You can fight a guy for 1:20h and then he surrenders and you get nothing? that would highly encourage me to pvp - true^^

Pick the 0,1% case to deny the reasonability of the solution in the 99,9% case ... no actual need to reply

Besides that, wIth the system I propose, you can be sure he will NOT surredender no matter what and will fight at last blood.

 

Edited by victor

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16 minutes ago, victor said:

Pick the 0,1% case to deny the reasonability of the solution in the 99% case ... no actual need to reply

Besides that, wIth the system I propose, you can be sure he will NOT surredender no matter what and will fight at last blood.

 

Are you sure i remember a time as you could deny your enemy any reward by surrendering. And actutally a lot of people did it becuase you could be mean. Then it got added that when you did dmg you still get reward when the other surrender. After that people just surrendered instant to deny any reward. So we are at the current state that even with instant surrender a guy that clicks "sink" gets rewarded.

But how should you know when not pvping.

PvP is all about beeing mean to each other and people pick any chance to be mean.Sinking/ganking is mean, denying reward is mean, swearing is mean, wasting time etc.

 

What i personal miss in this game is a goal. All we currently have ingame is pvp in the sake of rvr to turn a dot into my nation color. For me personal its not appealing. OW PvP is meaningless. I risk my mods for nothing except my own fun (maybe). Sinking and losing is no fun.

For me NA OW PvP lacks an overall goal.

20180216212447_1.thumb.jpg.3c42e5101814bc86ea24da4311066cb4.jpg

I am a bad il 2 pilot I get shotdown a lot which is sometimes very frustrating. Especially because i lose access to my fav plane when I lose it. But i keep playing because even I had to bail my action like bombing a town had an impact on the overall goal. I can tell myself I didnt die ingame in vain.

In NA you risk your ship for nothing except your own fun. And losing is no fun. So why risk it at all?

Edited by z4ys
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21 hours ago, admin said:

Question for discussion

One of the features of sandbox games is that sometimes number of enemies greatly exceeds your fleet (so called ganking problem). 

One year ago we gave ourselves a task to tune a combat model in the way where skill will have an overwhelming effect on the combat, allowing small group or a solo player to win almost any battle or destroy a great number of enemies before sinking himself. 

This is how the we believe the anti ganking solution should look like
(on the video you see how some outnumbered battles already look like)

All changes to combat model were done to support this ideal and based on the combat reports we see that it is possible more and more.

In this matter we have a set of questions

What is interfering with making winning such battles possible?
What would you add to combat model to give more options to win by skill?
What could should we add to help captains to not be afraid attacking an overwhelming force?
How would you tune existing mechanics to increase the chance to win by skill?

Overall so called ganking problem is always overrated in any MMO game. People tend to cry about ganking any time they are attacked even in 1v1 ( some even use ganking term when player attacks AI). Thing is both sides casuals and PvP hardcore players in this game already tried to shift the balance of ganking or being ganked on their side.

Atm I feel like PvP players are on top in almost every situation they are attacked by bigger force and that shouldnt be the case. Unskilled and not on team speak players should have a chance to defeat skilled players coordinating actions on TS when attacked with bigger force. Situations like this should have a chance to go either side half to half. Most of the time skill makes a difference but modules play a major role in those situations. Balancing mods is the only way to make it right.

Anyway, your main goal should be to bring battles like that into hull to hull combat rather than mast to mast (at least not at the huge distance and random broadsides breaking your masts- if anything only from close combat) so everyone even if sinking would have fun. If you get to that point, that is where skill should play major role - raking, masts breaking, causing leaks and better strategic planning should be the tools of PvP veterans.

Also, I feel like you are badly missing system like PvP ranks. Currently casual players which will be lucky enough to sink Players like Liq or Ram Dinark should be rewarded better than for sinking average Joe and on the other hand Ram Dinark and Liq should be rewarded better for battles against all odds. Bring special rewards (not only cash and exp and not only for wins) and you will get your players into combat.

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I forgot earlier. For one of the problems is the battle rating which I know is there for anti griefing but still. (And this may have been changed I don't know) but yesterday when I attacked that Bellona with my Renomee I had two Renomee in Fleet. This was the other reason that I started selling fleets to give me a high enough battle rating to do what I wanted to do. 

So many times I would see a bigger ship and just say f*** it, I may get sunk but I'm attacking this guy. Sail right up beside him hit the attack button and NO your battle rating is too low. WTH?? Five Guys with the battle rating of a thousand can attack me but I can't attack a higher up guy?

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17 hours ago, admin said:

 

Well i cant quote everyone!!! but everyone commenting is doing a great job!

this topic is very very useful. Keep ideas and thoughts coming.. but please stay on topic

1) how to stop 2 bellonas from running away from 5 trincos (they can trash those 5 ships with ease) and help them make a decision to stay and fight
2) what tools we can tune or add to help you fight outnumbered (to those who want to fight outnumbered).

 

 

On number 1 the obvious answer is to punish the Bellonas for running away. The Articles of War 1757 for the Royal Navy covers These eventuallities.

  1. Every flag officer, captain and commander in the fleet, who, upon signal or order of fight, or sight of any ship or ships which it may be his duty to engage, or who, upon likelihood of engagement, shall not make the necessary preparations for fight, and shall not in his own person, and according to his place, encourage the inferior officers and men to fight courageously, shall suffer death, or such other punishment, as from the nature and degree of the offence a court martial shall deem him to deserve; and if any person in the fleet shall treacherously or cowardly yield or cry for quarter, every person so offending, and being convicted thereof by the sentence of a court martial, shall suffer death.

     

  2. Every person in the fleet, who shall not duly observe the orders of the admiral, flag officer, commander of any squadron or division, or other his superior officer, for assailing, joining battle with, or making defense against any fleet, squadron, or ship, or shall not obey the orders of his superior officer as aforesaid in the time of action, to the best of his power, or shall not use all possible endeavours to put the same effectually into execution, every person so offending, and being convicted thereof by the sentence of the court martial, shall suffer death, or such other punishment, as from the nature and degree of the offence a court martial shall deem him to deserve.

     

  3. Every person in the fleet, who through cowardice, negligence, or disaffection, shall in time of action withdraw or keep back, or not come into the fight or engagement, or shall not do his utmost to take or destroy every ship which it shall be his duty to engage, and to assist and relieve all and every of His Majesty's ships, or those of his allies, which it shall be his duty to assist and relieve, every such person so offending, and being convicted thereof by the sentence of a court martial, shall suffer death.

     

  4. Every person in the fleet, who though cowardice, negligence, or disaffection, shall forbear to pursue the chase of any enemy, pirate or rebel, beaten or flying; or shall not relieve or assist a known friend in view to the utmost of his power; being convicted of any such offense by the sentence of a court martial, shall suffer death.
  5. Admin, could you put in place such punishments,( not death obviously), this would discourage running from battle
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US coast guard tried again to catch an elite player in a fast Ingermanland.  We started with a superior BR group to challenge the Ingermanland and he ran as expected:20180219202755_1.thumb.jpg.a6199c21494528c6e0aa57ae7afee922.jpgWe talked to privateer about coming back if we put a more even balanced group out using store bought rennommees and we gave it a try.  Privateer sailed into ctown harbor and tagged a small AI fleet.  We couldn't figure out why we couldn't join the AI side so we waited for him to get out and chased him again.  He was able to find a GB AI fleet and tagged them.  This time we tried joining the Pirate side since we can't join the AI side (Is this a bug or a perk for pirates that attack AI?).  Then we argued about whether we should kill him or not...(we get no PVP marks for sinking a friendly).  This digressed into arguing and frustration about the AI tagging rules and we just called it quits.20180219214159_1.thumb.jpg.68b9aaffe0a348c17f9ba300dd8ff5f0.jpg20180219214404_1.thumb.jpg.d19c07889c2ca8f038cd6b9ac6ed298b.jpg

 

Edited by SS Minnow

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9 minutes ago, Glorgir said:

On number 1 the obvious answer is to punish the Bellonas for running away. The Articles of War 1757 for the Royal Navy covers These eventuallities.

  1. Every flag officer, captain and commander in the fleet, who, upon signal or order of fight, or sight of any ship or ships which it may be his duty to engage, or who, upon likelihood of engagement, shall not make the necessary preparations for fight, and shall not in his own person, and according to his place, encourage the inferior officers and men to fight courageously, shall suffer death, or such other punishment, as from the nature and degree of the offence a court martial shall deem him to deserve; and if any person in the fleet shall treacherously or cowardly yield or cry for quarter, every person so offending, and being convicted thereof by the sentence of a court martial, shall suffer death.

     

  2. Admin, could you put in place such punishments,( not death obviously), this would discourage running from battle

Yes we thought of that some time ago. But then there is a Great Chase of uss constitution escaping from a large enemy fleet and getting commended for saving the ship. 

 

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I think another thing that would encourage people to get out is when and if @admin changes the hostility missions. I know for a fact that I would have any ship I could get ahold of doing hostility Missions at Little River this morning. Do I have a plan for report battle? Nope. But they would have to come out to stop me. Fun!!

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2 hours ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Yesterday we had an arranged battle vs Reverse and some "PvE players" with us. When we started losing they said "We had no chance anyway, its Reverse." It was an equal battle. They learned nothing, they just said we cant beat this guy anyways. I dont get this mentality.

If you are a noob you have the chance to learn and beat them the next time.

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

I see no reason to keep names in OW. Give us option to "heil" or message and that will be enough to recognize each other and communicate. We can even go one step further, remove ship names from OW, make it so players need to recognize ships with spyglass etc.

On the side note of communication, please add option for all nations to add each other to the friend list. It was requested dozens of times years ago. Now alternative is to communicate on forums or add friends via Steam or ask in global chat...

Edited by Banished Privateer
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Just now, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

Ahhh... that's a tough one... Personally I'm not afraid of fighting anyone - but I can definately see the point in doing this, it could help PvP in many situations.

HOWEVER

I have at times gone out of my way to chase players for a 1v1 just because I "hate" them :D - I'd hate to lose that element of the game.

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

There is maybe 10 solo players i would run from on whole server, but removing names wont stop me or others running from a 3 v 1 because its a 3 v 1 and i thought this was about encouraging you to not runaway from fights you might lose.. Removing names isnt a good enough answer on its own..after all thread is unequal battles not reasons to run from a 1v1..

Edited by Spitfire83
Actually like 5 players and only if had super duper mods on that ship..

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

Image result for seriously meme

Instead of running from someone, people will run from anyone just in case they are someone

Edited by victor
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4 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

Would definitely be worth testing....  even if it’s just for a unspecified amount of time.  Data would be very interesting.  

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1 minute ago, Banished Privateer said:

I see no reason to keep names in OW. Give us option to "heil" or message and that will be enough to recognize each other. We can even go one step further, remove ship names from OW, make it so players need to recognize ships with spyglass etc.

Must we go to such extremes Banished? won't a "hail" do the job? :D

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

Remove the name of the ships, that way we have to use the spyglass to identify the enemy vessel.

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Remove the name of the ships, that way we have to use the spyglass to identify the enemy vessel.

I fear the only things that will be removed from the game if devs go on with this kind of "creative" solutions whilst ignorinf players feedback are ... a bunch of players

Edited by victor
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As long as player is identifiable from AI, awesome.

I also agree with the above posters:  Remove ship names as well.  Simply ID it by class:  7th Rate, 6th Rate, 5th Rate, etc. etc. etc.  If people want to know what ship it is, they'll have to actually recognize it.  This would also make paints all the more important...

Further, guns would have to be modeled on enemy ships on the OW, so you could actually see what armament it is carrying before engaging (instead of all ships being en fluyt on the OW).

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

we are seriously considering removing enemy names from the OW (we know some will say NOOOOOO) but removing names will increase pvp. 

This has been asked for before. Maybe add in a "hail!" function with is so you can hail passer by ships, and if they hail you as well then you get their name/rank/whatever, if they don't hail back then you know you have trouble.

But yeah good idea because some players won't fight a person over their name if they've been seen around in the pvp leaderboard which is most likely halting PVP somewhere.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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