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Patch 17: Finalization of the sailing and combat models

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21 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Would be better to make higher quality ships crafting based on crafting experience or shipyard level or... other skill/exp/time things... That would benefit real ship builders and not some random guy that got lucky with one click and dedicated ship builder that crafted 99 ships and had no luck.

This but if the devs want to keep it RNG based, then add MORE bonuses, better bonuses at different tiers. Then all crafters benefit from the bonus instead of a few lucky guys.

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53 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Would be better to make higher quality ships crafting based on crafting experience or shipyard level or... other skill/exp/time things... That would benefit real ship builders and not some random guy that got lucky with one click and dedicated ship builder that crafted 99 ships and had no luck.

That's exactly what I mean.

Give everyone a way to get the "best possible ship" through work, not luck.

Or level the field and give everyone the same ship.

Even WoW gave up on loot casino.

Even Elite Dangerous, the game made by the most outdated-thinking developer in the world stopped it.

RNG is the way of the past. 

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1 hour ago, Ahoy H.R. Matey said:

That's exactly what I mean.

Give everyone a way to get the "best possible ship" through work, not luck.

Or level the field and give everyone the same ship.

Even WoW gave up on loot casino.

Even Elite Dangerous, the game made by the most outdated-thinking developer in the world stopped it.

RNG is the way of the past. 

But it may be proper for NA, because back then many ships were built off the same blueprints, only some (the famous ones we have now) became famous because they performed exceptionally better than their sister ships. RNG does catch this will. However this is also a game, and crafting should be rewarded and your characters skills should matter.

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13 hours ago, maturin said:

Yeah, the mindless, kneejerk reaction against occasional small bonuses in crafting is just embarrassing to watch.

It's not 'RNG' anymore than the horizontal dispersion on a carronade is RNG. Get over yourselves, for chrissakes.

No one can even articulate why a miniscule bonus on a few ships is even bad for the game. Especially not in the context of perm mods determining whether masts are made of glass or unobtainium, etc.

It's not the extra little mods than the rng gives, it's the extra slots. 

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46 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

Why some random guy should not be able to get bonus? He probably need this more to find a market and get some incitation to continue than any lvl 50 clan alt you call "real crafter". 

 

 

See it from the other side:

There will also be random guys which never get a bonus.


Especially if they only work for themselves and thus do not produce the quantity of ships.  Where the personal effort they have to crafting a ship is usually even higher.

Edited by Holm Hansen
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As long as it's totally random, that's fine to me, for exemple one of my guild crafter have yet to craft a gold one, and two daysago, crafted me a pink one : a trader lynx.

To be honest i can live without the extra perm slots but i'm quite fan of the random inbuild bonus.

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7 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

As long as it's totally random, that's fine to me, for exemple one of my guild crafter have yet to craft a gold one, and two daysago, crafted me a pink one : a trader lynx.

To be honest i can live without the extra perm slots but i'm quite fan of the random inbuild bonus.

no computer process can be totally random, but  well-implemented one can have the appearance of randomness.

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On 2/17/2018 at 10:07 AM, maturin said:

Extreme wind changes outside of storms are usually accompanied by a period of calm. Which is to say, a little too hardcore for the level of sailing simulation that this game typically maintains.

 

I don't quite agree here. I have long argued there should be some sort of OW indication of "local wind speed" - not something that affects your OW transit (because that takes long enough as it is) but will have an effect on your battle.

 

Sooooo many battles were determined as much by weather as anything else, and a blowing wind or just a faint breeze can have damning or saving results. I think that, for the sake of PVP realism, this should be modeled. If the wind is barely blowing, a fleet which is organized and together can very much defeat a larger more spread out fleet. And, coupled with the new sail force in the recent patches, would accurately model how different ships were better or worse in some weathers.

 

All in all, I think variable windspeeds in battle (with the appropriate effect on movement) would REALLY spice things up.

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5 minutes ago, Sir R. Calder of Southwick said:

 

I don't quite agree here. I have long argued there should be some sort of OW indication of "local wind speed" - not something that affects your OW transit (because that takes long enough as it is) but will have an effect on your battle.

 

Sooooo many battles were determined as much by weather as anything else, and a blowing wind or just a faint breeze can have damning or saving results. I think that, for the sake of PVP realism, this should be modeled. If the wind is barely blowing, a fleet which is organized and together can very much defeat a larger more spread out fleet. And, coupled with the new sail force in the recent patches, would accurately model how different ships were better or worse in some weathers.

 

All in all, I think variable windspeeds in battle (with the appropriate effect on movement) would REALLY spice things up.

A calm or significant lull in the wind would be quite frustrating if it struck in the middle of a battle. I don't think it would be popular in this community.

If we get a SP gamemode, the absolutely. Bring on the waterspouts.

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Available updates tested and overall feels good. Will test UI when available.

At the moment, less OW fleets to attack, less variation in OW fleets and the loot sux.

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11 hours ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Available updates tested and overall feels good. Will test UI when available.

At the moment, less OW fleets to attack, less variation in OW fleets and the loot sux.

Indeed. OW NPCs are getting a bit boring and loot misses its motivation

 

On crafting: Please remove the random generator. Lets have influence and lets upgrade whats happening over time.

 

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3 hours ago, blademage said:

Indeed. OW NPCs are getting a bit boring and loot misses its motivation

 

On crafting: Please remove the random generator. Lets have influence and lets upgrade whats happening over time.

 

This please. You may think players like getting random bonuses but we hate not getting those bonuses more All or nothing for crafting is too stringent.

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If

12 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

This please. You may think players like getting random bonuses but we hate not getting those bonuses more All or nothing for crafting is too stringent.

If only I had more likes to give.

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RNG Crafting...

RNG is needed so that ports are filled with ships.  We want that people craft ships.  We want that player driven economy is economy that is producing end products.  We want that new guys get ships from stores.

If economy would be working we would not need RNG and were able to achieve all that I listed before.

Question: How can we make players craft ships without RNG?

It should be rewarding enough to craft ships without a change to get an RNG bonus.

Long time ago LH was a limiting factor.  You were always able to buy products to craft more, you simply run out of LH.  We wanted to buy more LH from other players.  Economy was better.

I know plenty of people who bought alts to have more LH.  This was good use of alts.  You did not exploit really anything, you paid to have more LH, to be able to craft more.

Rare resources, expensive wood types, maybe all "expensive" makes LH less expensive.

Maybe..  Subcrafting to give XP again (if it is not yet), make ships crafting resources and materials so cheap that it is not from gold but LH.  Make it so that we want to buy LH from new guys.  When we start to see more "WTB/WTS LH" we are getting there.  LH based crafting long time was one of the things that I think was working really well in NA.  Don't really know why it was removed in the 1st place or was it an accident?

It was better when you needed lvl50 crafting skill to craft exceptional upgrades than the fact that you need to own one specific port.  There was more player driven economy when people wanted to sell/buy/craft exceptional upgrades.

LH should be more rare than rare materials or expensive wood types.

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Why, oh why, did you NUKE the OW sailing profile of the Trader Lynx?

It now barely scratches 14 kts running, down from 18-20 before the patch, and it also suffers more from headwind now.

WHY?

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Fast question: API data names "Lhermione" and "Hermione"... which one of those is currently in game as PvP reward: "L'hermione Note"?

Edited by Darayavahus

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2 hours ago, Darayavahus said:

Fast question: API data names "Lhermione" and "Hermione"... which one of those is currently in game as PvP reward: "L'hermione Note"?

Hermione=Santa Cecilia

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4 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 

RNG is needed so that ports are filled with ships.  We want that people craft ships.  We want that player driven economy is economy that is producing end products.  We want that new guys get ships from stores.

 

We need an economy based around craftable resources and crafted items rather than fake commodities like parisian furnitures and cognac.  That will generate a player economy.  RNG is not needed for that.  New guys can already get plenty of ships from the ship shop without anyone crafting them, which is a little unfortunate because grinding the lower crafting levels requires wasting resources on a couple dozen low rate ships that are difficult to sell. 

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6 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

We need an economy based around craftable resources and crafted items rather than fake commodities like parisian furnitures and cognac.  That will generate a player economy.  RNG is not needed for that.  New guys can already get plenty of ships from the ship shop without anyone crafting them, which is a little unfortunate because grinding the lower crafting levels requires wasting resources on a couple dozen low rate ships that are difficult to sell. 

So the players should be crafting their own Parisian furniture on desert islands?

Not sure how that makes any sense.

What is the value of a fake, ahistorical economy where only naval stores are of value and only the Caribbean economy exists? Sounds a bit like Mad Max with water.

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Just now, maturin said:

So the players should be crafting their own Parisian furniture on desert islands?

Not sure how that makes any sense.

What is the value of a fake, ahistorical economy where only naval stores are of value and only the Caribbean economy exists? Sounds a bit like Mad Max with water.

I know it's not always fruitful to draw comparisons between different games, but look at E.V.E Every thing in that game has a purpose, value comes from utility. Nothing is valuable arbitrarily.

Instead of a market built around useful materials we have one built around useless items and pieces of paper. People are making billions of gold not advancing the world economy one bit.

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