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vazco

Clan-based RvR

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Recently the community, while being hostage to VCO and REDS decisions, started talking about clan-based politics. Before someone forces some strange decision on admins, I decided to suggest how this could work without destroying many good aspects of NA, like some drastic ideas flowing on the forum would do. I base this on dicussion we had in Prussia.

 

Clan-based politics could be still within a nation. If you're in a small clan, you could still fight for getting eg. that Cartagena Tar port for your nation. You could still be allied by default to other nation members.

What could change is to:

  • allow clans define hostile clans. Such clans could war each other on OW and in RvR while hostility lasts
  • make it so that a clan owning a port has monopoly for 50% of rare goods that are produced in that port. This way eg. if you own Cartagena, 50% of goods sold in this port go to your clanmates, on their top price. Remaining 40% go to other members of your nation. This way it's profitable to capture a port, while in the same time it doesn't create a monopoly of access to a given resource.

This solution wouldn't change national politics, while in the same time would allow for clans to solve their issues within a nation. Moves like switching a nation to harm it would be impossible. Similarly, two clans leaving in a constant hostility could war out their differences.

Edited by vazco

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Just now, Teutonic said:

War Companies was one of the best suggestions the Admin had brought up and it could have solved all of this

Could have solved all of what? A bunch of salty dudes jumping nation because they lost 2 battles. VCO is so fickle. FeelsbadSwedes

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1 minute ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Could have solved all of what? A bunch of salty dudes jumping nation because they lost 2 battles. VCO is so fickle. FeelsbadSwedes

don't bring NN shit here.

you post has absolutely no relevance here. either bring something to the table or buzz off

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4 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

War Companies was one of the best suggestions the Admin had brought up and it could have solved all of this

I don't remember the idea, I just vaguely remember it was a drastic change and had loopholes. Maybe I remember it wrong though. Do you have a link?

Edited by vazco

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13 minutes ago, vazco said:

Recently the community, while being hostage to VCO and REDS decisions

 

2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

don't bring NN shit here.

you post has absolutely no relevance here. either bring something to the table or buzz off

XD

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1 minute ago, vazco said:

I don't remember the idea, I just vaguely remember it was a drastic change and had loopholes. Maybe I remember it wrong though. Do you have a link?

There were loopholes. and through discussion in the thread players suggest ways to get fix them, what you suggest was what "roughly" war companies was promising.
 

 

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As I recall, the big problems with the War Company idea were it was rough for newbies and clanless players and the idea of capturable ports only in the middle of the map seemed limiting.

Here’s how I’d do it.

Clan wars are possible for both PVP and RVR outside their safe zone.

Safe Zones remain similar (or smaller) to now. Within a nations safe zone, there is no green on green allowed for that nation. For example, within Dutch safe zone, no Dutch can attack or fight another Dutch. If a Swede on Swede battle was encountered in Dutch safe zone , Dutch could join either or both sides.

Port status choices would be: Available For All, Available for Nation, Available for Clan and its Friendly Clans.

Yea, outside the safe zone one could attack newbs and clanless players but I personally think a species that eats its young will ultimately dwindle away anyway.

Edited by Farrago

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3 Nations with 4 ports each as part of their safe zone for players below M&C rank

Cut the total number of ports to 2/3 or 1/2 what it is now.

Clans have loose alliances with nations. Each week a nation will have a goal i.e. capture this port etc. If your clan partakes in goal you will receive bonuses from the motherland

Give clans more control over their ports i.e. What they produce (trade goods, crafting goods etc.) Clan docks, Give them more control over the items produced there.

Make more ports that are worthwhile. currently there are about 10 ports that are worth holding.

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The issue with making fully clan-based combat are quite numerous:

  • what about clanless players and their experience? They need some way to access the content
  • fixing all the issues makes system very complex and hard to understand. Eg. where can I attack? Why I can't capture a given port? Which port is closed to which clan? etc.
  • having a clan take over a port and close it fully for the clan can create a monopoly of access. Eg. with Cartagena it can be a dangerous snowballing effect
  • what about even fights between nations? Right now alts solve this problem by giving access to nations for key resources (Cartagena, Carpenters etc.). If it's completely not available, we would get a snowballing effect

That's why I proposed to modify the system, so that it's half-clan, half-nation based.

Edited by vazco

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  • what about clanless players and their experience? They need some way to access the content?

                     They still have national ties and are neutral to all clans of their nation. Admin has suggested adding a clan directory/leaderboard which would allow                                   players to find what best suits their playstyle

  • fixing all the issues makes system very complex and hard to understand. Eg. where can I attack? Why I can't capture a given port? Which port is closed to which clan? etc.

                       Clans can still have allied clans but all ports would be open to capture from other clans. Clans get to choose who enters their ports.

  • having a clan take over a port and close it fully for the clan can create a monopoly of access. Eg. with Cartagena it can be a dangerous snowballing effect

                       Now that clan becomes a target. Anyone who owns a high value port will be a target.

  • what about even fights between nations? Right now alts solve this problem by giving access to nations for key resources (Cartagena, Carpenters etc.). If it's completely not available, we would get a snowballing effect

                        If a clan is able to hold their port they should reap the benefits not the alts of other clans/nations. Also only having one port to produce high value mods                            is idiotic and should be changed.

 

The goal is to keep nations like Sweden Spain France etc. from owning 2/3 of the ports most of which they do nothing with. Clans that want to hold high dollar ports will constantly be under attack and have a hard time holding many other ports.

Edited by RedNeckMilkMan

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Problem is more RoE based than you guys think. How would a OW battle sweden vs sweden would look like? Which side to join?

Another thing is the exploitability from being hostile sometimes. Tagging eachother to avoid a fight or hide in a battle etc.

 

I made a suggestion some time ago aswell. Basically I would change the whole RoE idea and the holdings of ports aswell.

First idea has to be that RoE has to change. There should be clanless, clans and alliances ingame while a alliance is a collection of clans that got invited to the alliance (and they accepted) 1 clan has 1 alliance, 1 alliance has many clans

Now the RoE works like this. Clans can attack clanlass players or players of other clans and alliances but not their own clan and also not their own alliance.

Battles from outside have different looks its not sweden vs PR anymore or something but for example:

Rediii vs HRE if rediii is clanless and HRE has no alliance

Rediii vs testalliance if testalliance is a alliance of different clans and rediii is clanless

etc. You should get how it works.

Now the Problem is the pulling of other players and chances of exploitability. For this clans and alliance have to have timers (like leaving battlegroup) so you cant just go out or switch so it fits you etc. and you have to have benefits with joining a clan/alliance.

 

So conquest should be alliancebased. Ports can be open for all or open for your alliance. It is not nationalbased anymore because the nation is just yohr flag and your startingposition on the map. Now every capital is a reinforcement zone for every player. Nations are not at war with each other so you have dangerous zones outside of national control and the safezones inside of national control.

 

Whatever you do here ghe trick is to get the RoE in OW right.

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My suggestion, that would require the least amount of additional programming and accomplish the goals of clan based RvR, which I heartily support, is this:

Allow at the clan management interface to specify any clan, regardless of nation, as friendly. By default all players from another nation would be red/enemy. But, if both clans from different nations have declared each other as friendly then they'd turn green and all of a sudden those clans could join each other's side in port battles and battle instances.

A modification of this would be to allow access to friendly clan's ports but that might be prone to abuse, though I think it would be fun. ;) 

But for resolving within nation beefs, you could have a "hostile" clan list, as @vazco proposed. Within a nation if either of two clans had the other listed hostile then you're an enemy/red and can be tagged. These battles are only open to members of the nation and have a "Join [VCO]" or "Join [Insert your name here]" button.

Edited by Wraith

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In my opinion the people who want clan based are the ones who want just to fight. Fight all day long headless. A huge blob which inside there’s ppl fighting each other. They are here only for win in battle. No RvR, no relactions among States. Just fight on the battlefield until the last man (ship). And now that the NA Legend server will close, there will be more and more.

It’s not bad per se but there are other players who wish for political stuffs, PvE stuffs and so on. All have the rights to enjoy their play style...

Edited by blubasso

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16 minutes ago, blubasso said:

In my opinion the people who want clan based are the ones who want just to fight. Fight all day long headless. A huge blob which inside there’s ppl fighting each other. They are here only for win in battle. No RvR, no relactions among States. Just fight on the battlefield until the last man (ship). And now that the NA Legend server will close, there will be more and more.

It’s not bad per se but there are other players who wish for political stuffs, PvE stuffs and so on. All have the rights to enjoy their play style...

there will be even more politics involved with clanbases conquest. What people want is to decide with who they want to play. They want it to be their decision and not the decision of the guys joining them

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

there will be even more politics involved with clanbases conquest. What people want is to decide with who they want to play. They want it to be their decision and not the decision of the guys joining them

Yes and no: this reminds me RL situation in Italy or Germany for exemple, in the past history: a lot of little States, fighting each others for supremacy. First time a Big Fish comes, all they will perish and they will be inglobated and forgotten. Not sure if i like it...

Edited by blubasso

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3 minutes ago, blubasso said:

Yes and no: this reminds me RL situation in Italy or Germany for exemple, in the past history: a lot of little States, fighting each others for supremacy. First time a Big Fish comes, all they will perish and they will be inglobated and forgotten. Not sure if i like it...

wont realy happen in the game.

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20 hours ago, vazco said:

The issue with making fully clan-based combat are quite numerous:

  • what about clanless players and their experience? They need some way to access the content
  • fixing all the issues makes system very complex and hard to understand. Eg. where can I attack? Why I can't capture a given port? Which port is closed to which clan? etc.
  • having a clan take over a port and close it fully for the clan can create a monopoly of access. Eg. with Cartagena it can be a dangerous snowballing effect
  • what about even fights between nations? Right now alts solve this problem by giving access to nations for key resources (Cartagena, Carpenters etc.). If it's completely not available, we would get a snowballing effect

That's why I proposed to modify the system, so that it's half-clan, half-nation based.

Clanless players can be pirates, or create clans of 1 to join alliances.

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