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Announcement on the Legends server status and long downtime

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

WOWS was destined to be shit. Modern sea combat is not compatible with a gaming environment. NA gets a pass because age of sail battles are brutal up close affairs that are more than just predict where you think the enemy will be in 4-12 seconds and fire. NA is a sword fight while WOWS is 2 people walking briskly chucking javelins at each other from 20 yards away.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

Wows have 4 servers. And real stats you can see there  And there were 28468 players online at March 18, 2018 19:50:03 on RU server.

And NA peak online was  789 players at March 18, 2018 20:10:00.

Why you not use social media for free to increase player base?

NA online

 

live.png.9d8914efb8d0b936a62124b03cb2487a.png

Edited by qw569

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1 hour ago, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

I don't want to get in fight holding up Wargaming over your heads. Being spread too thin made sense to me.

When you have the energy, NAL will work as free 2 play, most likely better player retention than OW.

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3 hours ago, admin said:

NAL was giving fair fights with all upgrades open to everyone. The online started falling down before cannon unlocks was added and before leeway was added to NA open world.  I would even go further - if progression was not in NAL testing, participation would fall even earlier. 

See, previously I would stop and say " He has the point, and we need to think about it"
But we tested it. Fair fights/No upgrade influence was not enough. 

Yes like i said i understand that you were wanting to test the progression of the game as a new game but most of the players testing have been involved in NA from the beginning or EA and been through that many wipes that like me i guess most others didnt wanna grind through it again so its hard to get a good perspective on how well the game would have gone and last, looking at the game the structure does look fine just the community is burnt out from the same old thing rinse and repeat etc.

As for Fair fights/ Upgrades the balance isn't there yet and the game hasn't settled down to the right mechanics of sailing, boarding, demasting etc to make the game not a meta build or overpowered modules etc, there needs to be slight characteristic changes and not massive ones that make players picking upgrades don't always resort to same old you need to have it to be competitive mentality, so proper balance and drawbacks needs to be considered.

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Just now, jodgi said:

I don't want to get in fight holding up Wargaming over your heads. Being spread too thin made sense to me.

When you have the energy, NAL will work as free 2 play, most likely better player retention than OW.

Doubt it, it's equivalent to PVE/PVP server fiasco. Why would I play PVE server when I can do everything and more in the PVP one? If warthunder released a actually good World War mode everyone would be playing it, people who don't even have the game would play it.

NA:L would be a gateway to NA, as PVE would generally be a gateway PVP, not reverse. Very few people would go from PVP to PVE or NA to NA:L as a mainstay. Many people would go from NA:L  to NA to get the full experience, if NA was rock solid it would hold those players fine as good MMO's tend to do.

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I believe NAL should be looked at as a "loss leader." A product that introduces customers into NA. It will not generate the numbers that WoWS currently commands. But as a free to play title more people would be willing to give it a try. The hope is that they either stay and pay for premium time and or ships, or they become interested enough to pay the $40 to play NA. I've played both for some time (two accounts, 1000 hours plus NA and a Victory in NAL) I prefer NAL even with the BoT's. Frankly I just can't stare at the back of a ship, sailing for 30 minutes on an empty sea, for another second.

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On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 8:09 AM, admin said:

Dear Captains

The goals of NAL were to:

  • Remove the open world (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the unbalanced battles and ganking (with all their negatives)
  • Remove time wasting and hunting 
  • Provide the pure unspoiled experience of pure combat.

10,000 captains tried Naval Action Legends. Approximately 7000 of them got to the second level ship. 6 Captains have reached the Santisima Trinidad. Numbers usually do not lie and despite being a theoretically better game on paper, it did not have player retention compared with Naval Action with all the ganking, sailing, unbalanced fights, and complete lack of UI. It just could not keep players, forcing those who stayed to fight with bots, repeating the situation with the original sea trials. 

As a result, Naval Action Legends idea is temporarily put on hold. 

Several best ideas from the NAL will be brought into Naval Action in the future: specifically tournaments, challenges, the seamanship experience, and officers. Learnings from NAL will be applied to NA; with the main overreaching goal - fill the world with players, remove gear fear, and reward players for action (not only for kills). 

Inexpensive limited feature edition of NA will be introduced in the future that will increase the amount of players in the world, giving the NAL experience of non stop battles against players, in the world filled with players. 

PS. Regarding the new game type that was prototyped. Testing shown that all game types that could keep players would revolve around new content and adding that new content to 2 games is wasteful.

Adrenaline, the feel of the hunt, or being hunted gives a lot more spice to battles and our current plan is basically give this NAL feeling (ability to quickly jump to combat and recover losses quickly) in one game without splitting the audience in two.

I would like to push back on the second bullet point "Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)." This was one of my biggest disappointments in NAL. I felt that the offered options limited  my ability to shape the character of my ship. I also felt that removing them was an over simplification. I would have been happier with the ships as they were from NA, dropped directly into NAL. I like to fiddle with the aspects of my ship, the wood types, the crew, the sailing characteristics and I believe most feel the same. NAL was a very good game as it was, I hope it comes back soon, even in its original form.

 

As for the limited reception of the game, you really didn't offer it to many to begin with. People I had played over 400 hours with on NA didn't even know it was available. You couldn't have expected more people who play the NA to play NAL. This was fine for testing, but popularity conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt.

Edited by rosebud2

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7 hours ago, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

This tells me:

  1. find an investor or funding (kickstarter-dlc?), expand your team and monetize. Build a great product 
  2. ...or focus on guerilla approach :) Invest in some PO/gamification skills, and sustainably build your product in time. You already have great developers and good efficiency. Your multiplayer mechanisms could use some polish. Once you focus on them, maybe by chance you could have profits of WOWS, with expenses you have right now :)

Anyway, I'm really impressed with what you've done so far. You have a big potential here, please use it :) 

I'd gladly help you a bit :) 

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4 hours ago, rosebud2 said:

As for the limited reception of the game, you really didn't offer it to many to begin with. People I had played over 400 hours with on NA didn't even know it was available. You couldn't have expected more people who play the NA to play NAL. This was fine for testing, but popularity conclusions should be taken with a grain of salt.

Thought basically the same. The only way to know about Legends so far is reading this forum, which limits the amount of people that are aware of the game to a small percentage of regular Naval Action's players. I talked to some players in Legends' chat that more or less stumbled upon the new Steam entry by accident. Combined with some people who stopped playing Naval Action a long time ago because they couldn't get into the open world, I'd assume that would make for quite a lot of players who'd like to play Legends - but simply didn't know they could. In addition I personally didn't thought of advertising the game to my friends yet because it clearly wasn't finished and wipes were inevitable.

I know that you're a small team and I'd actually say it's a good decision to focus on finishing one game first. I'd just like to point out that I don't see the numbers during this test as an indicator for Legends' potential. So I hope you'll give it another try once regular Naval Action is somewhat finished. Even without any marketing budget there are chances for more people to get into Legends. In the age of Youtube and Twitch sometimes good gameplay is all it needs to promote a game and the combat and sailing model in Naval Action definitely has the potential for that. A simple notification for everyone who bought regular NA might help too.

4 hours ago, rosebud2 said:

I would like to push back on the second bullet point "Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)." This was one of my biggest disappointments in NAL. I felt that the offered options limited  my ability to shape the character of my ship. I also felt that removing them was an over simplification. I would have been happier with the ships as they were from NA, dropped directly into NAL. I like to fiddle with the aspects of my ship, the wood types, the crew, the sailing characteristics and I believe most feel the same. NAL was a very good game as it was, I hope it comes back soon, even in its original form.

If I understand aright "remove the gear fear" means removing the fear of losing your ship and your upgrades and not removing upgrades in general.

Edited by Jeremiah Gunsmoke
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19 hours ago, qw569 said:

Wows have 4 servers. And real stats you can see there  And there were 28468 players online at March 18, 2018 19:50:03 on RU server.

And NA peak online was  789 players at March 18, 2018 20:10:00.

Why you not use social media for free to increase player base?

NA online

  Reveal hidden contents

мы постили только данные со стима - на стиме такой онлайн

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Think it's time to cut my losses on this one, hopefully someone else comes up with a good AOS game. Doubt it but who knows right lol.

 

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8 hours ago, Ruthless4u said:

Think it's time to cut my losses on this one, hopefully someone else comes up with a good AOS game. Doubt it but who knows right lol.

 

I'm heartbroken too, but don't run just yet. Patrol missions may turn out fine for us, try that for a week or two first. And that's just the first on a list of things to accomodate us.

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On March 22, 2018 at 6:15 AM, jodgi said:

I'm heartbroken too, but don't run just yet. Patrol missions may turn out fine for us, try that for a week or two first. And that's just the first on a list of things to accomodate us.

It's not that I hate the game or anything, but in about a month tiny version of me the sequal  2 will be here and my time will be reduced further.

With legends I could spend 60-90 mins playing, have my fun and log off. OW it's simply not possible, there is far too much time investment doing stuff I don't like( Econ, crafting) and to me it feels forced to accomplish anything. For me to spend a weeks worth of grinding Econ for an hour's worth of enjoyment doing what I like, just to repeat again is not worth the time investment.

I don't see NAL being brought back, the final nail has been put in its coffin and there is no hope of its return, despite what @admin says.

 

Not going to leave an angry steam review, just walk away. It was fun while it lasted. If anyone knows a good AOS game let me know( if you suggest SOT I'll stuff you in a cannon)

Edited by Ruthless4u

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2 minutes ago, Ruthless4u said:

With legends I could spend 60-90 mins playing, have my fun and log off. OW it's simply not possible,

That's exactly what the new patrol missions do... or intend to, we might have to lobby a bit for improvement. There won't be anything as great as the fighting system in NA over the next 10 years. We need you, even! The sandbox dudes say we're an insignificant minority.

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28 minutes ago, jodgi said:

That's exactly what the new patrol missions do... or intend to, we might have to lobby a bit for improvement. There won't be anything as great as the fighting system in NA over the next 10 years. We need you, even! The sandbox dudes say we're an insignificant minority.

Sounds interesting but if I'm still stuck doing 10 hours of Econ/trading for every shot at patrol missions then I still have the time issue.

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1 minute ago, Ruthless4u said:

Sounds interesting but if I'm still stuck doing 10 hours of Econ/trading for every shot at patrol missions then I still have the time issue.

I'll help you with that, no joke. PM me and you can poke me on steam or discord.

Also, I'm going to buy the announced premium ships to escape from eco snooze. That might agree with you too?

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21 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I'll help you with that, no joke. PM me and you can poke me on steam or discord.

Also, I'm going to buy the announced premium ships to escape from eco snooze. That might agree with you too?

Premium ships, missed that one. Need to find the details lol.

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On 3/19/2018 at 6:07 AM, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

This data isn't important. WoW is not a steam game. It is possible to play it through steam, but there is no point, so most people don't do it. In reality each of the four WoW servers hit 20-30k players per day. 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say WoW is better, I just don't like fake data.

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1 hour ago, EliteDelta said:

This data isn't important. WoW is not a steam game. It is possible to play it through steam, but there is no point, so most people don't do it. In reality each of the four WoW servers hit 20-30k players per day. 

Now don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say WoW is better, I just don't like fake data.

indeed. But because wows (at least initially) forced players to create a new account if you got the game from steam, and launched the game to get access to steam audience we can assume that this audience can be judged as a separate cohort: cohort of naval enthusiasts on Steam only. 

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34 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed. But because wows (at least initially) forced players to create a new account if you got the game from steam, and launched the game to get access to steam audience we can assume that this audience can be judged as a separate cohort: cohort of naval enthusiasts on Steam only. 

You also need to look at it's early numbers compared to now. In it's early days it's numbers where actually hurting compared to some other games.  Hell I never made it out of ALPHA/BETA testing on WoWp cause it was not even goign to touch War Thunder, which by the way ship version blows compared to WoWs.  WoWs actually has gotten better with the adding of more new material so it wasn't like the same three ships over and over again.  

I can see this game doing good, but maybe not at those levels, but the problem is it needs to be finsihed and released before that happens and it's no where ready for release.  Changing key things every other month doesn't help and some of the things it's really really really lacking needs to be added in game before you ever to expect it to be a top MMO Sandbox game.   NA:L isn't a bad concept, but it needs to come after the main game is finished and released, than it can be worked on and added later.  Just like WoT added WoWs and WoWp later.  

there is talks of a WWII/I game being worked on too, I think it might be best if ya'll stay out of that market and keep to the AGE of sail model, ya'll have a beautifull game here that can be so much more.  All the other age of sail games have either really crappy models/graphics or they are made more like a Disney game.  Love this game and want the best for it, but I'm not here to play an Arena death match game, I'm here for the OW sandbox and freedom of game play, but sadly if they never get proper Pirate Mechanics i"ll be honest i"ll slowly loose interest in this game when something bigger and better comes out that is currently being worked on.  Cause I'll have freedom to be a space pirate if I want to and not just some Nation with a black flag.

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20 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'm here for the OW sandbox and freedom of game play, but sadly if they never get proper Pirate Mechanics i"ll be honest i"ll slowly loose interest in this game when something bigger and better comes out that is currently being worked on.  Cause I'll have freedom to be a space pirate if I want to and not just some Nation with a black flag.

We made this mistake before (multiple times) where we confused open development (and speed of iteration) with movement (velocity)
AfePrha.png
The tornado of tunings: Lots of patches, lots of changes and improvements, yet if you try to recall 22 latest patches - only several things come to mind.

Pirate mechanics are going to be reviewed ONLY after we finish the main priorities. As if we start tuning pirates, we will continue staying in the circle. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

We made this mistake before (multiple times) where we confused open development (and speed of iteration) with movement (velocity)
AfePrha.png
The tornado of tunings: Lots of patches, lots of changes and improvements, yet if you try to recall 22 latest patches - only several things come to mind.

Pirate mechanics are going to be reviewed ONLY after we finish the main priorities. As if we start tuning pirates, we will continue staying in the circle. 

Yah don't want ya'll get stuck in the circle for sure, love this game even if we butt heads at times, but it does come down to it's truly ya'lls game first.   I think the main thing is folks would like to know that it's something in the future.  Like saying Pirate mechanics will be looked at after UI, and major game mechanics are done.  This year has been really great on the game mechanics patches compared to how I felt about last years patches.  It was like a lot of them keep hitting walls and keep going backwards instead of forward.  Keep up the great work, but don't let to many things side track you from the goal.

We are all crossing our fingers for this next month of April in hopes the UI will be ready to be put into game. I think that is going to bring back a lot of players that are taking off from the game until it is added.

 

PS drop some paints, ships looking bland we know ya'll got them and holding out on us after NYE gift....which sadly I don't use the Endy so that lovely paint isn't being used by me yet. lol

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Problem is there are competitors launching games soon, or at least before NA OW and NAL.

 

By the time either game labs game gets finished players will have moved on to other games in the genre due to being tired of waiting.

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I was one of those casual Players, who was bored out very fast by grinding through the OW. So by all means I quite the game still running a Cutter. I'm not really made for MMO's. I really like the Sea Trails though. Just go in, fight a battle and leave. With a better system for choosing ships and battles, it could have become my game. OW killed it for me. 

I just heard of NAL just a couple of weeks ago and wanted to give it a try. May by here i would get a game, i could live with, even when you need to grind again through the ships. When I loaded ist down and tried to log in, Servers were already down.

If you ever want to revive the Project, think of this:

The fun in a game like NAL should be playing with friends against others, not grinding XP to get a better ship. Like in a board game, the fun is in playing with and against others. Your experiance should help you to win, not XP-Points. People still play games like Chess and Monopoly, even if you can't get any bonus for winning the last game....

Some Ideas for such a game were written in this Forum, before Dev's made it clear, NA will be a MMO. Thought NAL would have had potential here. By staying close to NA with the battlemechanics and graphics, you would have reduced developing time. Just a good lobby, in game chat, balancing and flexible scenarios for the beginning. Would even have given you a nice test platform for Battles in NA. The lack of possibilities to set up an individual battle, was the most annoying point in the Sea Trails and this returned with NAL. Imo not a good choice.

Additionally Player from NA could test new ships, they plan to build, and you catch players, that would never go for an MMO. Even get back some of those you already lost would have been possible. Mayby some would have even gone from NAL to NA to get the full experiance (though, definetly not me).

OK, still have to wait for a god successor of AOS2 then...

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47 minutes ago, Bladerunner said:

Mayby some would have even gone from NAL to NA to get the full experiance (though, definetly not me)

I've gone back to OW, but I only play those patrol missions. They are very ganky for the time being but we're campaigning to make them more fun. You should try them out, you might find them fun.

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