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Announcement on the Legends server status and long downtime

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29 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

You know @admin ... maybe do some research before trowing so much energy on a gut feeling. U still have us...(500 players)

:)

7000
7000 (+/-1000)  unique player IDs logged in over last 2 weeks

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5 minutes ago, admin said:

The new idea is that an active pvp player should be able to get everything from the government. Crafters can just give you this content faster and cheaper, or give you access to ships of the line, but the rest should be available from the government if you sink enemies of the state in patrols or elsewhere. 

Fantastic.

As usual; I'm worried about the budding pvp-player who struggles sinking the enemies of his state. Back to pve for cash, upgrades and inefficient fighting-skills training in order to become an active pvp player... or?

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Is there a slight chance, that the shallow mechanic from the battles in NA:L will or can be implemented in NA?

Edited by Cecil Selous
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This is REALLY disapointing.

I admit playing less NA:L than I would have liked, but that was due to real life reasons unrelated to the game.

 

But I guess, we did see that NA:L might not have reached the critical mass of players needed for an Arena multiplayer game.

I hope NA will get some way of playing without the need of heavy grind to replace lost assets.

(And I do not concider clan support a valid way for this)

:angry::angry:

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Dear Captains

The goals of NAL were to:

  • Remove the open world (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the unbalanced battles and ganking (with all their negatives)
  • Remove time wasting and hunting 
  • Provide the pure unspoiled experience of pure combat.

10,000 captains tried Naval Action Legends. Approximately 7000 of them got to the second level ship. 6 Captains have reached the Santisima Trinidad. Numbers usually do not lie and despite being a theoretically better game on paper, it did not have player retention compared with Naval Action with all the ganking, sailing, unbalanced fights, and complete lack of UI. It just could not keep players, forcing those who stayed to fight with bots, repeating the situation with the original sea trials. 

As a result, Naval Action Legends idea is temporarily put on hold. 

Several best ideas from the NAL will be brought into Naval Action in the future: specifically tournaments, challenges, the seamanship experience, and officers. Learnings from NAL will be applied to NA; with the main overreaching goal - fill the world with players, remove gear fear, and reward players for action (not only for kills). 

Inexpensive limited feature edition of NA will be introduced in the future that will increase the amount of players in the world, giving the NAL experience of non stop battles against players, in the world filled with players. 

PS. Regarding the new game type that was prototyped. Testing shown that all game types that could keep players would revolve around new content and adding that new content to 2 games is wasteful.

Adrenaline, the feel of the hunt, or being hunted gives a lot more spice to battles and our current plan is basically give this NAL feeling (ability to quickly jump to combat and recover losses quickly) in one game without splitting the audience in two.

I think that your research on the feasibility of the NAL's existence as a stand alone game lacks validity (as in you are not measuring what you think you are measuring).  If I understand you correctly, you wanted to measure how a stand alone battle arena type game focused solely on the NA combat model would fare and whether it would hold players' interest. You are using players' playing times and progression as a measure of engagement with the game without taking into account a multitude of other factors, which results in a spurious relationship between progression and engagement. There is a very good chance that your conclusion that the battle system alone without the open world will not hold players' attention is false. NAL was not a pure test of the battle system - the battle system alone is superb, however, you also have several factors that you did not account for such as the progression system, cannon grind (most likely the greatest cause of loss of interest as it guaranteed losing), matchmaking system, player population (you took people who were used to the much larger ship and upgrade variety and asked them to enjoy less variety and to work extra hard to be able to sail a very limited number of ships that they could not design or customize to the degree that they were used to)... I believe that when you account for all of those factors and find out how great of a detriment to player retention each one of them was, you will find that NAL could have a life of its own with removal of or tweaks to the "fun reducing" factors. For me personally cannon grind and the lack of a greater variety of ships and upgrades drove me from NAL back to NA, while I did enjoy the arena setting and the quick availability of a fight even though the matchmaking was not always working as well as I would have liked it to. 

If your new goal is to fill the NA world with players, please consider investing time into PVE content. You have to build the foundation first in order for the high end content to thrive. Fill the forest with deer and rabbits by giving them plenty of nice green grass and the wolves will grow fat and happy when the prey becomes plentiful... You have a wealth of player suggested PVE ideas that would also fill the empty seas - please consider using those ideas to build a more thriving ecosystem for the beautiful game that you have created. If you build it they will come, if you force them into content they don't want they will leave for greener pastures. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Random said:

if you force them into content they don't want they will leave for greener pastures. 

Everyone would want to fight if eco wasn't forced on them. 

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What NA is doing great and NAL lacked is a sense of some purpose (fights have some meaning), and community you operate in. You're forced to cooperate at some point, which I think gives unique experience in NA.

I like your decision. On the other hand though if I were you, I would probably test NAL on a completely new audience, which wants arena-based fights. Testing NAL on NA players doesn't give you meaningful results - NA players want something different than an arena gameplay. There are probably others who would want an arena gameplay.

It's a good decision to not to spread your resources thin though. There is a potential in NA - especially once you monetize it in a sustainable way.

Edited by vazco
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It's obvious that Legends had a problem with few players resulting in bot matches resulting in even less players. But I actually had hope that this would change with a full and more fleshed out free to play release. All the ships from regular Naval Action to unlock, more options to customise these ships (upgrades, officers, paints, whatever), a better progression and reward system (still not a fan of gun progression) and - most important - no impending wipe on the horizon would have been quite good reasons for players to actually stick to the game. The new sailing model, the adaptions to thickness and maybe even a lobby for predefined battles could have been additional improvements.

However I'll admit that this is absolutely theoretical and there wasn't a guarantee for it to work. I think the initial thought behind Legends - two different groups of players that can't be satisfied within only one game - is still kind of relevant though. Uncomplicated, more or less even and easily accessible fights in the OW sound good to me on paper as well, but I doubt you'll reach that goal without making those players unhappy, that actually enjoy features like the economy that only work within the open world environment. Even the proposed BR limits for the new patrol areas already caused opposition on the forums because they are considered as contrary to the idea of an open world.

So yeah, all in all I'm not sure if this is the right decision, but at least for me it's sad to read.

Edited by Jeremiah Gunsmoke
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@admin & team

 

It’s a shame, but you understand the business better than I. If I may suggest a view just from an older players perspective. I’ve loved my time on NA-OW and NA-L and will continue to support you and the game.

NA-L was mis-understood by most NA players including myself (the reason for the guide). It as a standalone unit was 75% of the way there and was enjoyed by most. However, the final polish to get it ship shape from a tutorial to better scenario content was lacking. Retention is hard to judge from the test as we all play NA-OW as well. This for me was hard to balance the two games and you must take that into account. Managing [ELITE] and NA-L was impossible and needed in the end to focus on one.

I’ve played WoWs and although it’s got vastly more resources than GL it has a very small tutorial. Most information comes from player guides and such. They use BASIC YouTube to give regular updates and keep in touch with the player base.

At the end of the day its Polished. It works... just look at it...

NA-OW, likewise is 75% there but that last push is badly needed. Above game mechanics it does need polish to attract. The models are wonderful but how much more is needed to do? The game needs finishing...

I hope NA-L dose make a return, but I’d rather see NA-OW finished properly first...

 

Norfolk nChance [ELITE]

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Norfolk nChance said:

@admin & team

 

It’s a shame, but you understand the business better than I. If I may suggest a view just from an older players perspective. I’ve loved my time on NA-OW and NA-L and will continue to support you and the game.

NA-L was mis-understood by most NA players including myself (the reason for the guide). It as a standalone unit was 75% of the way there and was enjoyed by most. However, the final polish to get it ship shape from a tutorial to better scenario content was lacking. Retention is hard to judge from the test as we all play NA-OW as well. This for me was hard to balance the two games and you must take that into account. Managing [ELITE] and NA-L was impossible and needed in the end to focus on one.

I’ve played WoWs and although it’s got vastly more resources than GL it has a very small tutorial. Most information comes from player guides and such. They use BASIC YouTube to give regular updates and keep in touch with the player base.

At the end of the day its Polished. It works... just look at it...

NA-OW, likewise is 75% there but that last push is badly needed. Above game mechanics it does need polish to attract. The models are wonderful but how much more is needed to do? The game needs finishing...

I hope NA-L dose make a return, but I’d rather see NA-OW finished properly first...

 

Norfolk nChance [ELITE]

 

 

 

thank you Norfolk all active players/testers for NAL will be remembered. We learnt a lot  - thank you for your support!

Just like you said we found it very taxing on the team to work and market 2 games. We would chase 2 rabbits. Lets launch NA first and take it from there.

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42 minutes ago, admin said:

Just like you said we found it very taxing on the team to work and market 2 games. We would chase 2 rabbits. Lets launch NA first and take it from there.

I get that, thanks for trying.

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Have to say I'm really disappointed but obviously you guys know the business side of things. I would have loved to see how the game got on with an early access release to all (even with an extremely slow dev schedule)

I'm just hoping there will be chances for players to simply jump into instant access 25v25 fights - even if they're just a daily battle (similar to the old small battles challenge). Being someone who only has an hour or so a day to spend on the game it seems there isn't a huge amount of easy access content on the horizon?

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10 hours ago, admin said:

Dear Captains

The goals of NAL were to:

  • Remove the open world (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the unbalanced battles and ganking (with all their negatives)
  • Remove time wasting and hunting 
  • Provide the pure unspoiled experience of pure combat.

10,000 captains tried Naval Action Legends. Approximately 7000 of them got to the second level ship. 6 Captains have reached the Santisima Trinidad. Numbers usually do not lie and despite being a theoretically better game on paper, it did not have player retention compared with Naval Action with all the ganking, sailing, unbalanced fights, and complete lack of UI. It just could not keep players, forcing those who stayed to fight with bots, repeating the situation with the original sea trials. 

As a result, Naval Action Legends idea is temporarily put on hold. 

Several best ideas from the NAL will be brought into Naval Action in the future: specifically tournaments, challenges, the seamanship experience, and officers. Learnings from NAL will be applied to NA; with the main overreaching goal - fill the world with players, remove gear fear, and reward players for action (not only for kills). 

Inexpensive limited feature edition of NA will be introduced in the future that will increase the amount of players in the world, giving the NAL experience of non stop battles against players, in the world filled with players. 

PS. Regarding the new game type that was prototyped. Testing shown that all game types that could keep players would revolve around new content and adding that new content to 2 games is wasteful.

Adrenaline, the feel of the hunt, or being hunted gives a lot more spice to battles and our current plan is basically give this NAL feeling (ability to quickly jump to combat and recover losses quickly) in one game without splitting the audience in two.

Good decision. Age of sail is not only about ships and cannons. Its the world too and NA has it big and with great potential. Lets finish it properly.

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The arena based game may have had more of a chance if it was released closer to the Sea Trials period.  I would have been interested in it then, since I was very confused by the Open World when it launched.  By now the only people left are players that are used to the Open World game.  The "fleet practice" is now an alternative, too. 

 

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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12 hours ago, admin said:

Several best ideas from the NAL will be brought into Naval Action in the future: specifically tournaments, challenges, the seamanship experience, and officers. Learnings from NAL will be applied to NA; with the main overreaching goal - fill the world with players, remove gear fear, and reward players for action (not only for kills). 

Nice to read. I really like that! Espcially this: reward players for action (not only for kills), Participation must be rewared! And i never understood why the damage dealer get all rewards? What about a tanky ship that strategically takes all damage to guard the glascannons and let them shoot their deadly ball for the team win. Or the fast frigate class ship that has made riskful sail damage to slow down the heavy armed enemy ships, wich was most important, cause without this there were no battle. 

Quote

Adrenaline, the feel of the hunt, or being hunted gives a lot more spice to battles

Yes, exactly that is what makes me play NA since Steam release. And the depth! Additionally the flowing diplomatic relations between nations/clans. Teamplay in economiy and fleet compositions and several more. I would wish to see these things better realized, with more functionalities in diplomacy, clan management, ship customisation and more love to economy But if fear my wishes are too high^^.

..and NAL is: just another arena game

 

Edited by Sven Silberbart

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21 hours ago, admin said:

Inexpensive limited feature edition of NA will be introduced in the future that will increase the amount of players in the world, giving the NAL experience of non stop battles against players, in the world filled with players. 

THIS is a great idea that needs to happen. I remember when steam relase happened. naval action was so much fun and addicting it was crazy. NA has gotten much better since steam realease. however  while getting better as a game it has become pretty boring because the lack of players. once the UI drops and the idea quoted above hits I hope people will return to the game and stay. game will be great if you devs can figure out how to get the numbers constantly above 700   24/7. one big way to achieve this is remove the daily down time. that will bring your ausez and Asians back. 

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I must admit I am back in NA now that the economy seems a bit more fair. Shipbuilding is a bit on the hard side though, but it is acceptable. 

Put longer joning timers for battles back in and the game could be superfun again.

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23 hours ago, admin said:

Dear Captains

The goals of NAL were to:

  • Remove the open world (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the gear fear (with all its negatives)
  • Remove the unbalanced battles and ganking (with all their negatives)
  • Remove time wasting and hunting 
  • Provide the pure unspoiled experience of pure combat.

10,000 captains tried Naval Action Legends. Approximately 7000 of them got to the second level ship. 6 Captains have reached the Santisima Trinidad. Numbers usually do not lie and despite being a theoretically better game on paper, it did not have player retention compared with Naval Action with all the ganking, sailing, unbalanced fights, and complete lack of UI. It just could not keep players, forcing those who stayed to fight with bots, repeating the situation with the original sea trials. 

As a result, Naval Action Legends idea is temporarily put on hold. 

Several best ideas from the NAL will be brought into Naval Action in the future: specifically tournaments, challenges, the seamanship experience, and officers. Learnings from NAL will be applied to NA; with the main overreaching goal - fill the world with players, remove gear fear, and reward players for action (not only for kills). 

Inexpensive limited feature edition of NA will be introduced in the future that will increase the amount of players in the world, giving the NAL experience of non stop battles against players, in the world filled with players. 

PS. Regarding the new game type that was prototyped. Testing shown that all game types that could keep players would revolve around new content and adding that new content to 2 games is wasteful.

Adrenaline, the feel of the hunt, or being hunted gives a lot more spice to battles and our current plan is basically give this NAL feeling (ability to quickly jump to combat and recover losses quickly) in one game without splitting the audience in two.

Personally it might have done better if all the players who already went through multiple wipes and grinds didn't have to go through it all again, i understand the fact you wanted us to the new game and give feedback but my guess is everyone is worn out from the same grind to unlock and move forward, i only did 3 battles and that was enough for me to be sick of grinding it all again.

Sea Trials when that was all we had, would have shown the numbers with abit more perspective, how many from the number of players in ST reached the Santi? NAL has it potential and could launch well to a new audience with the proper advertising but once they reach end game im not sure how long it would survive just as big line battles etc. NAL has only really be tested on the old burnt out population and from the numbers its only showing me that they don't wanna go through the grind again to unlock and play the ships.

As for the Adrenaline and feel for the hunt i lost that feeling a long time ago when you would get defensively tagged from the slowest ganker and they would start at max range and leave long before you even had a chance to get close to them in a quicker ship, then you would proceed to do the same again with more helpers defending their territory from the group gankers and the same process would go on again, im not sure if you have changed that mechanic and made the starting distance closer or circle smaller to combat the defensive tagging.

Another example was 1 Ingermanland (recently killed using a lower tier ship to get the tag and deny PvP marks) who tagged an Indie, the Indie's national players were close enough around the area to be able to jump in to support their own kin making it a 1 sided battle with like 8 higher tier frigates mostly made up of players still grinding proceeded to all agree to target and shoot the sails/ masts of the Ingermanland and through the whole hour battle weren't even able to destroy a single piece of mast while all 8 frigates were demasted on multiple occasions with 1 single broadside that was from a quick turn shoot return and only a few cannonballs actually making contact to the masts of the friendlies, it kind of makes wanting to go out and participate for alot of new players feel as if its a waste of time when these kind of things are happening. 

Now TBH i've been sick of the game that long that going back and trying to participate in PvP with these kind of unrealistic overpowered upgrades/ Knowledge and mechanics just making it that much easier for players to not bother with playing this part of the game, I've seen on multiple occasions that players want more PvP and complaining about the lack of it or even fair fights its not hard to see when the game has been designed the way it is its hardly seems worthwhile for many to get involved in.

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On 17.03.2018 at 2:23 PM, Ronald Speirs said:

I've seen on multiple occasions that players want more PvP and complaining about the lack of it or even fair fights its not hard to see when the game has been designed the way it is its hardly seems worthwhile for many to get involved in.

NAL was giving fair fights with all upgrades open to everyone. The online started falling down before cannon unlocks was added and before leeway was added to NA open world.  I would even go further - if progression was not in NAL testing, participation would fall even earlier. 

See, previously I would stop and say " He has the point, and we need to think about it"
But we tested it. Fair fights/No upgrade influence was not enough. 

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13 minutes ago, admin said:

Fair fights/No upgrade influence was not enough. 

Sorry, but I don't agree. I tested it and I liked the NAL project, didn't like implementation. I explained earlier in this topic why.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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28 minutes ago, admin said:

NAL was giving fair fights with all upgrades open to everyone. The online started falling down before cannon unlocks was added and before leeway was added to NA open world.  I would even go further - if progression was not in NAL testing, participation would fall even earlier. 

See, previously I would stop and say " He has the point, and we need to think about it"
But we tested it. Fair fights/No upgrade influence was not enough. 

Well to be fair... even if people tried NAL and liked it ( like me ), they probably just didn't feel like grinding out the xp for frigates and higher + upgrades for it all to be wiped anyways. NAL was nice but "fair fights" wasn't always the case with the horrid matchmaking. People just want the OW... a age of sail game without open sea / world just gets boring really fast and also ship loss doesn't matter in NAL and it takes quite a bit of excitement and sense of accomplishment out of the game - having 1 dura ships and being able to cap or sink high value ships is one of the best things in NA and it is completely lost in NAL, where when you lose your ship you only pay repairs and get it back.

People don't want "no upgrade influence", they want upgrades to be balanced and while valuable to be available to everyone. Giving upgrades through sealed bottles was a really nice change that rewards OW sailing (and less useless garbage in sealed bottles )and gives more people access to good upgrades. So good job on that.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

NAL was giving fair fights with all upgrades open to everyone. The online started falling down before cannon unlocks was added and before leeway was added to NA open world.  I would even go further - if progression was not in NAL testing, participation would fall even earlier. 

See, previously I would stop and say " He has the point, and we need to think about it"
But we tested it. Fair fights/No upgrade influence was not enough. 

If WoWS player retention was predicted at closed beta phase Wargaming wouldn't have released the game.

 

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49 minutes ago, jodgi said:

If WoWS player retention was predicted at closed beta phase Wargaming wouldn't have released the game.

 

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.
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8 minutes ago, admin said:

If we look at the online numbers its somewhat puts things in perspective.

  • WOWS: Free 2 Play; Peak Steam online yesterday 4200. 150 developers, 50 mln marketing budget
  • NA:       $40 dollars; Peak Steam online yesterday 823.    4 developers, 0 marketing budget.

get a Kickstarter going and sell special items that players in NA can use but don't affect the player's ability in the game (AKA don't make a pay to win) like paints for your ship and cool non-gameplay-affecting features like that.

I would gladly gift you some money to keep the development of this game going.

Edited by Rickard
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14 minutes ago, Rickard said:

get a Kickstarter going and sell special items that players in NA can use but don't affect the player's ability in the game (AKA don't make a pay to win) like paints for your ship and cool non-gameplay-affecting features like that.

I would gladly gift you some money to keep the development of this game going.

Pretty much this.

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