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- any captain could acquire any ship through both methods, crafted -or- in Admiralty 

- all modules and books being acquirable through both methods as well, crafting or Admiralty

- raise crafting needs per ship to appropriate age of sail levels. Raise Admiralty marks requirement accordingly.

- actual trade or supplying the shipwrights - Trader occupation - would yield the most gold income and XP ? Can acquire whatever with gold.

- combat against enemies of the nation - Navy officer occupation - would yield the marks of valour and XP ? Can acquire ships and modules with marks.

- Reinforcement Zones become subject to Protective AI and Signalling effect ( active patrols and aggressive behaviour against enemy players ) as opposed to the present situation 

- trade ships do not yield marks

- ports PB BR be dynamic according to accumulated tax rate over 7 days - starting at (Sh/Deep) - 600/1200 - for 0 tax made - up to 2400/12400 - for 2 million tax

- Coastal defences being dynamically placed according to port tax - each tower equals 50k, fort equals 200k - for 2 towers and 1 fort, 300k net worth of tax.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Lord Bomgordel said:

What if... ?

- Buff santa cecilia so its not a complete waste of space dusting up in port?

And Connie too :(.

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- any captain could acquire any ship through both methods, crafted -or- in Admiralty ? 

I always prefer playercrafted ships, by myself or from others don't matter. But what about if the command of the Admiralty-ships is only temporary granted? For example for one session / day / week? Maybe with a certain set of modules?

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- all modules and books being acquirable through both methods as well, crafting or Admiralty ?

For books personally i like the fact that not every book can be bought from Admiralty. So you have some motivation to to go on OW to find them. A nice twist would be, if experienced players which own a skill could create a book by themselves. Maybe with some random variables? For modules i prefer them only to be crafted, to give the crafters a source of income (and motivation).

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- raise crafting needs per ship to appropriate age of sail levels. Raise Admiralty marks requirement accordingly.

Not sure about this, do you mean to raise the material and time costs per ship on a more realistic, higher level?

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- actual trade or supplying the shipwrights - Trader occupation - would yield the most gold income and XP ? Can acquire whatever with gold.

As passionate smug... ehm ... trader and shipbuilder i say okay for the gold income, but not for the XP.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- combat against enemies of the nation - Navy officer occupation - would yield the marks of valour and XP ? Can acquire ships and modules with marks.

Good idea, but who defines enemy of nation? And what about pirates?

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- Reinforcement Zones become subject to Protective AI and Signalling effect ( active patrols and aggressive behaviour against enemy players ) as opposed to the present situation.

I'm not sure about aggressive behaviour. Maybe it would be enough if AI fleets patrol certain important trading routes, so any player trader could sail together with them on their route. If he is attacked, the patrolling fleet would be pulled into battle also.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- trade ships do not yield marks

Trade ships can be armed and a hell of a fight, if the player knows what to do. So no, against it.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- ports PB BR be dynamic according to accumulated tax rate over 7 days - starting at (Sh/Deep) - 600/1200 - for 0 tax made - up to 2400/12400 - for 2 million tax

I'm no rvr guy, but sounds interesting.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

- Coastal defences being dynamically placed according to port tax - each tower equals 50k, fort equals 200k - for 2 towers and 1 fort, 300k net worth of tax.

 

 

Good idea, but is ist only for the defences being active or for building new ones, too?

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Scaling of coastal defenses is a great idea.  In no way should many of these backwater villages have 68-lb’er forts manned by hundreds of men. 

And for that matter, the entire compliments of a 1st rate should NOT fit into a T-brig.  

Good suggestions, Heth. 

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Bragan - some folks do not care a single bit about the age of sail experience, but they care about the ow pvp. Hence they can access any ship without resorting to economy, given they are proeficient in their pvp. Others that want to play the game and age of sail experience, with trade, crafting, etc, can access everything by other means.

So everyone has access to the stuff depending on their favourite past time in game. A natural born crafter will be as good as a natural born navy officer ( which didn't have to worry about crafting ).

Values would have to be reviewed of course. Both resources/materials and marks of valour. Just ideas to help the coexistence.

Trade WAS the money maker - naval officers had a fixed allowance, chase captains could win some prizes on top of that -  but it is unjust to keep pure naval career players tied to it and having to rely on economy when then adamantly are against it - just want to pick up a ship and fight. Hence they can rely only on themselves, their combats and the marks for new ships. At the same time the shipwrights/traders can make use of their gameplay without having to be reliant on marks.

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Yes, I mean aggressive AI ( kind of stolen from Elite ). You want to smuggle ? Make sure you run the gauntlet. Want to ambush traffic coming in or out ? You have to deal with the AI security forces. It gives both opening and space to friendlies and enemies without being a "always works" solution. I mean, a lot of people would sail along AI in gone times for a reason. As they are not dragged in anymore, at least in the "unconquerable zones" they should act as coast guard.

-

 

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9 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Yes, I mean aggressive AI ( kind of stolen from Elite ). You want to smuggle ? Make sure you run the gauntlet. Want to ambush traffic coming in or out ? You have to deal with the AI security forces. It gives both opening and space to friendlies and enemies without being a "always works" solution. I mean, a lot of people would sail along AI in gone times for a reason. As they are not dragged in anymore, at least in the "unconquerable zones" they should act as coast guard.

-

 

If... Ai would actutally have random behavior. Otherwise fake feature, time waste , annyoing feature...

Edited by z4ys

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Just now, z4ys said:

If... Ai would actutally have random behavior. Otherwise fake feature, time waste , annyoing feature...

AI warships of the nation safe zone you are in. Random behaviour ? Why ? The stakes are on the player, not the machine. 

Play Elite and you will know exactly what I mean. And I play both smuggler and pirate there. Running blockades to supply illegal trade or arms when civil wars about to erupt or going in with "stolen goods" ( basically all cargo stolen from a trader will be marked as stolen ) checking if the black market guys are around to buy the stuff as I cannot sell to normal market.

And it has both "ow travel" and be pulled into "instances" by the AI. You count on it when going into enemy space and the patrols also roam around. A smuggler has to run the gauntlet, evade the scans and make sure he enters the "port"; that's half the job. Exiting is the other half.

We cannot have free reign nor full shutdown. It locks out too much possibilities.

 

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1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

...

 

I am talking about the challenge to fight AI. Its so boring. They allways act the same. YOu fought 1 AI you fought them all. They only differ in gun accuracy. Thats kind of boring.

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9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I am talking about the challenge to fight AI. Its so boring. They allways act the same. YOu fought 1 AI you fought them all. They only differ in gun accuracy. Thats kind of boring.

Sadly AI will never have the behavior of a human player. Or, better, it could learn from its mistakes, but at the end it will be too strong for almost everyone, so newcomers will be completely out. More: AI cannot play "experience tricks" as an expert human can do. Anyway it cannot have the creativity of a human player.

I played in the past a game (War in the Pacific, from Slitherine, Matrix Games), with an absolutely awful AI, but wonderful against humans. NA is more or less the same: AI good for learn, but the real fun come from human opponent.

Edited by blubasso

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Mejorar el roll de los Artesanos y Comerciantes y hacer que en PVE existan conflictos entre naciones y IA piratas agresivos seria darle vida y realizar un juego excepcional.

Improve the roll of Artisans and Merchants and make that in PVE there are conflicts between nations and aggressive IA pirates would give life and make an exceptional game.

 

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3 minutes ago, blubasso said:

Sadly AI will never have the behavior of a human player. Or, better, it could learn from its mistakes, but at the end it will be too strong for almost everyone, so newcomers will be completely out. More: AI cannot play "experience tricks" as an expert human can do. Anyway it cannot have the creativity of a human player.

I played in the past a game (War in the Pacific, from Slitherine, Matrix Games), with an absolutely awful AI, but wonderful against humans. NA is more or less the same: AI good for learn, but the real fun come from human opponent.

True. Thats why I said Ai has to be improved otherwise features like heth suggested are just fake ones. There are currently so many ways to exploit AI. Thats why reinforcement fleets need those imba first rates in order to protect players.

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

Bragan - some folks do not care a single bit about the age of sail experience, but they care about the ow pvp. Hence they can access any ship without resorting to economy, given they are proeficient in their pvp. Others that want to play the game and age of sail experience, with trade, crafting, etc, can access everything by other means.

So everyone has access to the stuff depending on their favourite past time in game. A natural born crafter will be as good as a natural born navy officer ( which didn't have to worry about crafting ).

Totally agreed, I don't want to force the navy officers in the crafting business also. But the vision, to get every ship or mod or skill book by amount x foo marks sounds a little ... lame ;-) And there is the danger that all players, not only the navy officers prefer the Admiralty shop and this way we are loosing any incentive for traders/crafters/explorers.

Therefrom i would suggest, that the access to ships and modules from admiralty are in a form of command: You get command of a certain ship(type) with a set of modules (maybe via a market) and as long as you sank a certain amount of enemies (players and/or AI) you can keep it. If you don't sail it anymore, because you want to try something different or are fed up with a certain ship type, you give it back and get a new command. For example as british captain you apply for a command of a frigate and can choose between a Trinco with British rig refit and cotton sails or an fast Essex with Spanish Rig Refit and Copper plating. You choose one, get medium guns for free and are in command of this ship, can modify her on own cost and as long you regularly sank enemies. If you get sunk by yourself, you can choose a new frigate from the pool or, because you are rear admiral now, apply to line ship duty, also so if you get bored by frigates and give your actual ship back.

For player, who want to be navy officer and own their ships, there is also the possibility to buy - or build - their own ships, so you even could mix the two ways of life, if you want.

 

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

Values would have to be reviewed of course. Both resources/materials and marks of valour. Just ideas to help the coexistence.

Trade WAS the money maker - naval officers had a fixed allowance, chase captains could win some prizes on top of that -  but it is unjust to keep pure naval career players tied to it and having to rely on economy when then adamantly are against it - just want to pick up a ship and fight. Hence they can rely only on themselves, their combats and the marks for new ships. At the same time the shipwrights/traders can make use of their gameplay without having to be reliant on marks.

-

Nothing against trade as money maker as long navy officers get a salary or prizes, i'm only against trade as main source of XP.

1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

Yes, I mean aggressive AI ( kind of stolen from Elite ). You want to smuggle ? Make sure you run the gauntlet. Want to ambush traffic coming in or out ? You have to deal with the AI security forces. It gives both opening and space to friendlies and enemies without being a "always works" solution. I mean, a lot of people would sail along AI in gone times for a reason. As they are not dragged in anymore, at least in the "unconquerable zones" they should act as coast guard.

-

 

As smuggler i don't have a problem with aggressive ai, i even would appreciate more patrols because it's a little to easy. My main concern would be the solo ow hunters in small ships, the Privateers and Snows that hunt some lonely traders and will be crushed by 1524 BR AI fleets every then and now. And it's no fun to constantly run away from ai, also

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Really wish we had all those suggestions. I keep reading through them and thinking, damn if only we had these mechanics ingame....

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On 12/2/2018 at 11:06 AM, Hethwill said:

- raise crafting needs per ship to appropriate age of sail levels.

Maybe a time to craft the ship can be implemented... An instant Victory when u have the VM and the others needs is so unreal... Maybe contract the shipbuilders, the painters, buy the cannon balls, the sails, hire officers, cookers... (I'm inventing)

On 12/2/2018 at 11:06 AM, Hethwill said:

- ports PB BR be dynamic according to accumulated tax rate over 7 days - starting at (Sh/Deep) - 600/1200 - for 0 tax made - up to 2400/12400 - for 2 million tax

That's interesant. Maybe it can depend of the coast and port capabilities too (The port is surrounded by water or not, there is reefs or not, the amount of defences or... for sure the shallow waters) 

I think the question is: how can an important port like Cartagena de Indias be defended in the same proportion than other county capital like Soto La Marina, for example? There is maybe 5 kk (5 millions) of difference in tasks, more smugglers, more interests, more contracts...

On 12/2/2018 at 11:06 AM, Hethwill said:

- Coastal defences being dynamically placed according to port tax - each tower equals 50k, fort equals 200k - for 2 towers and 1 fort, 300k net worth of tax.

That would give more epicness to the game. Imagine a nation/clan which pay a lot of money on the daily maintenance due to, maybe, the 10 extra towers and the attack fleet destroy them all and the defender fleet in a port battle. 

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On 12.2.2018 at 11:06 AM, Hethwill said:

- any captain could acquire any ship through both methods, crafted -or- in Admiralty 

- all modules and books being acquirable through both methods as well, crafting or Admiralty

Sold! Don't need to hear more 

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40 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Sold! Don't need to hear more 

Jodgi, that little piece was a result of our talks. After all the sea belongs to all of us.

 

1 hour ago, SirAlatriste said:

Imagine a nation/clan which pay a lot of money on the daily maintenance due to, maybe, the 10 extra towers and the attack fleet destroy them all and the defender fleet in a port battle. 

It is not the money payed by the clan.

It is the amount of trade passing through the port - tax amount.

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