Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Some people are in it more to LOL at you than anything else. 

Exactly. This tactic was happening everywhere regularly a few months ago. The invisibility + speed boost period was added, and completely solved the problem. It didn't guarantee escape, but it gave you a fighting chance to get away. 
I believe the period was originally 50 seconds? Now it is 20, unless i'm mistaken. The tuning was too drastic, and I think the period needs to be increased again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

Exactly. This tactic was happening everywhere regularly a few months ago. The invisibility + speed boost period was added, and completely solved the problem. It didn't guarantee escape, but it gave you a fighting chance to get away. 
I believe the period was originally 50 seconds? Now it is 20, unless i'm mistaken. The tuning was too drastic, and I think the period needs to be increased again. 

Haha, I am lucky when I get 14 seconds invisibility. Can't even turn my ship into the direction I want in that time. I think the patch notes said 30 seconds timer. I never had that. Even if it is just 20, I never had that either. Some said it has to do with your hard drive and loading speed which make sense in a way but seriously, it shouldn't. So my loading times back into the OW are usually between 5 to 8 seconds. Bamm, 14 to 10 seconds invisibility. Then I see Moscalbs stream (just an example because I have noticed it during watching). He has comparable loading times back to OW, but he has a 17 seconds invisibility timer. That's also not the full amount. What is happening there with the calculation, that it is so inconsistent? Is it so hard to let the timer start, when you are actually in the OW and not during the loading time. Makes escaping a revenge fleet unnecessary harder. Imho this mechanic isn't working properly.

Edited by Cecil Selous

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

Haha, I am lucky when I get 14 seconds invisibility. Can't even turn my ship into the direction I want in that time. I think the patch notes said 30 seconds timer. I never had that. Even if it is just 20, I never had that either. Some said it has to do with your hard drive and loading speed which make sense in a way but seriously, it shouldn't. So my loading times back into the OW are usually between 5 to 8 seconds. Bamm, 14 to 10 seconds invisibility. Then I see Moscalbs stream (just an example because I have noticed it during watching). He has comparable loading times back to OW, but he has a 17 seconds invisibility timer. That's also not the full amount. What is happening there with the calculation, that it is so inconsistent? Is it so hard to let the timer start, when you are actually in the OW and not during the loading time. Makes escaping a revenge fleet unnecessary harder. Imho this mechanic isn't working properly.

Completely agree. I have a fast computer and strong internet, but I usually see 10-15 seconds on that timer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Kutai if you think that I talk only about Mortimer Town or KPR PvP, you're wrong. Ganking and revenge fleeting happens all across the map. Also, if you mind - I am a solo hunter / PvP player (at least I used to be). That's my prefered style. Since revenging and ganking was increasing (just like on old times of 2016 and 2017), I started to sail in small fleets of experienced players to increase chances of survival. This wasn't enough... because even 5 players can't fight 15 or 20. I am not complaining about capital PvP. Pay close attention, I even mention that safe zones are broken and mostly rookies and newbies are getting killed there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

Completely agree. I have a fast computer and strong internet, but I usually see 10-15 seconds on that timer. 

It's about SSD loading/reading times. My SSD allows me to load quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I completely understand the attitude of the people who gank; 
- They get rewards.
- Risk is extremely low compared to taking on a proper fight. 
- "ITS A WARGAME N00B!"

I honestly have no problem with that. I'll happily go get ganked on purpose just to shoot at some stuff, i've done that every time i play for a long long time now. 

To me however, it becomes an issue when you fend off a "Gank", but they just tag you again. And again. And again. Eventually you run out of repairs, or real life stuff takes over. (To name a few; Dinner, Sleep, School, Work, Kids, etc etc.) 
This is where i get frustrated. If the enemy wants you bad enough, they will get you. (And some will argue that you just need to sail the right ship. But as we have seen in the past with revenge fleets, even the fastest Surprises can get caught and killed by so called "revenge fleets". And especially now that repairs are limited to what you can carry on your ship.) 

Fix repeat tagging/"Revenge fleeting". 
Suggestions; 
- Exit to nearest port. (Only available if you are the "defender".) 
- Log off after battle. (Only available if you are the "defender") I am not sure how it can be implemented without the "After Battle Report" thing we used to have.
- Longer speedbost/invisibility. (Only available if you are the "defender"). I get about 9 seconds of it now, i can barely set my sails in that time.
This also solves one of those things that i have seen many a player complain about; "Counter Tagging". 
Only problem i see here is that first "gank fleet" you face will simply wait till they are right on your fight before they tag you. So your first fight will be alot tougher but if you win/escape you will be rewarded by not having to suffer repeat tagging untill you die or simply log off because you have more important stuff to do. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off... I agree with some of the mechanical issues (invisibility timer should be longer, ship rotation should match the speed boost, etc.) But other than that I'm not terribly sympathetic here.  Why are you denying them the ability to come out and get their revenge? I don't classify a 3v1 or a good net set up to grab you out of a nation's home waters as a "gank" either. I mean... if you're hunting solo, tag someone and kill them.. you got your fun now let someone else have theirs?

Is it perhaps because you're geared to the nines, giving you a massive advantage over and above whatever skill gap is at play, and it's costing you a shit ton to replace that ship you just lost?  I have a solution to that...

Is it perhaps that you just want to have your cake and eat it too with regards to PvP marks and the advantages they give you (winners keep winning, losers cheat or quit)?

Perhaps we should just take PvP marks out of the equation, since you're making a very strong case for the negative consequences/motivations they bring into play, and remove them from the game.  But all that said, perhaps you should just hunt differently and encourage a different kind of play style from your prey? 

And @TommyShelby, I love you man but there's no way in hell I'd welcome back log off or teleport after battle.  Increase invisibility and speed boost but back to the good ole' days of getting really "ganked" without the possibility of revenge?  Nah thanks.. And especially with all of the exploits it created with regards to RvR/trading, etc.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

@TommyShelby sorry, but teleporting ships to port and logging out will be as much exploited as avoiding screening fleets with alt accounts hiding in battle instance.

Demote everyone who exploit it to rank 0. :P

But i'm just a silly guy who loves sailing solo in OW doing PvP and enjoying the awesome combat model that NA offers (It might not be perfectly balanced but it is still superb compared to any other Age of Sail game out there.). 
I know very well that Naval Action is now a "RvR" game and there is little room for those like me. But since i love the game (I truly do, otherwise why the heck would i have spent 4.6k hours in it), i just can't be bothered anymore... 

Maybe some day, repeat tagging/revenge fleeting will be fixed again. I sure as hell hope so because i'd like to keep playing :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if you cant make it to the (already pretty long) 3 minute battle timer, you shouldnt be able to re engage them, simples

increase invis and speed boost timer after battle, also increase cannot attack timer after battle by a LOT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TommyShelby said:

Maybe some day, repeat tagging/revenge fleeting will be fixed again. I sure as hell hope so because i'd like to keep playing :(

They had fixed it with the speed boost and invisibility. But now it's so short it's a useless mechanic.

I Wouldn't bet money on them ever fixing it again, the people who have 24 hours a day to tag over and over will be upset if they can't keep you glued to your chair for hours just to escape. 

But one can hope I guess. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

And @TommyShelby, I love you man but there's no way in hell I'd welcome back log off or teleport after battle.  Increase invisibility and speed boost but back to the good ole' days of getting really "ganked" without the possibility of revenge?  Nah thanks.. And especially with all of the exploits it created with regards to RvR/trading, etc.  

Wraith my love, please read my suggestion again. If you get "ganked" you can still get your revenge. But if you go gank someone and they kill you, forget all about revenge. 

In my opinion its not hard to make it so people don't exploit it. A PB Fleet exploits it? Demote every single player and if someone feels like its unfair they can go make their case in the tribunal. 

Invisibility/Speed boost is alright for me too, but it need to be long enough that you can get past the "net" that a 15 man gank group can make. And it has to take into account that not everyone loads the OW in 1 second. 
(Oh, and ofcourse, decreasing the god damn time that battles are open would help too. But we all know the friggin outcry that comes every time someone mentions that...) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sureshot said:

They had fixed it with the speed boost and invisibility. But now it's so short it's a useless mechanic.

I Wouldn't bet money on them ever fixing it again, the people who have 24 hours a day to tag over and over will be upset if they can't keep you glued to your chair for hours just to escape. 

But one can hope I guess. :P

I also thought it was pretty perfect before..

It wasn't some kind of "get out of jail free card" because I remember catching plenty of enemies that were predictable when the tried to escape me. It was just enough to give the defenders a fighting chance, without eliminating the possibility of revenge from the attacker. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It's a war game noobs! This game simulates real life. You can't just vanish into thin air, so if you don't have 10 hours a day to play a real simulation of age of sail than bugger off! Cry me a river if you get tagged over and over, you took the risk by sailing on OW!"

(* Totally ignores the fact OW speed is compressed and is 10x faster than battle speeds. Also you couldn't call for help over voice chat (ts3, discord *)

It's always been a problem and always will be, that's how the game is designed and fixing it is most likely not an option. 

It sucks and I'm hoping they fix it before release. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kutai said:

do not sit by a Capital city jumping traders and new players

Where the F should they sit then? It's the fault of the game and mechanics that everyone comes to the safe zones to "gank" ( sometimes gank and sometimes just looking for fair fights ). It's the fault of experienced max rank players hiding like cowards in the zones to do PvE that the new players take the beating, because they don't understand the mechanics as well as the max rank players and are easier to get into a fight... I mean how hard can it be to only give new players untouchable status in the zones but exclude rank 6+ ? And "jumping traders" ... are you for real mate? It's retarded enough that you can trade / craft with immunity in the zones and you actually complain about people taking traders down, if they get the chance? Are we playing Hello Kitty online or something?

I used to play pirates too but kinda quit.... game is going to shit slowly and pirates became the biggest carebear nation of the server...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Safezones are Anti-PvP

I just think back to the days when you could capture all ships but much worse quality and all mods were craftable. People weren't terrified to lose ships so getting sunk didn't really matter too much. PvP was glorious then. All that PvP that could be just isn't, slowly turning the PvP server into PVE. :=p 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if asymmetric Br made it so the weaker side had a longer join timer. So a gank could turn into a good fight given a longer time to respond. 

 

Or.. Signal perk. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed to certain points here Banished: F11 coordinates in battle, mast thickness nerf, high ranks instead of newbies using the safe zones correctly - basically false design as you said, speed meta.

What I will never agree to is the hidden attitude of nearly all pro pvpers that they only want doable fights. Basically what signalling perk does. If the enemy is mediocre in skill level we will defeat them if not too heavily outnumbered. So we want the fights heavy and demanding but always want to win. I assume that, because in the most discussions there is nearly only pvpers discussing about mechanics that totally fit their purpose. What we forget and where the crux is: on our way to glory and the fancy screenshots and videos there is hundreds of bloody noobs or casuals just being quickly killed, not really mentioned and even faster forgotten. 

There may be some balancing needed here or there in the mechanics without doubt, but please be honest to yourselves here. If I get wrecked in front of a capital after I sank one or two noobs in their missions or found a poor fella that thinks he can kill my frig with his big guns on the big boat and tags me inside the safezone - to me this is only fair and square. Just try to change pov: to all the newbies and noobs the fight you or we won just weren't doable. You know what a success it is for casuals to sink known enemy players in front of the capitals? Even if some of them sink in this battle, they gonna come again and play. Win some, lose some that's how it should be - and for me it is currently.

I know you want to talk mechanics. To me this is more a matter of attitude.

Edited by Palatinose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TommyShelby said:

I completely understand the attitude of the people who gank; 
- They get rewards.
- Risk is extremely low compared to taking on a proper fight. 
- "ITS A WARGAME N00B!"

These are basically the issues;

- NA became a PvP arena purely driven by rewards.

- Mechanics result in matchmaking that allow you to leave when youre about to loose.

- No objectives, your actions dont serve any purpose. No reason to risk and loose stuff... as it would be the case in war.

5 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

There may be some balancing needed here or there in the mechanics without doubt, but please be honest to yourselves here. If I get wrecked in front of a capital after I sank one or two noobs in their missions or found a poor fella that thinks he can kill my frig with his big guns on the big boat and tags me inside the safezone - to me this is only fair and square.

How is mission jumping fair. The guy inside cant do anything to prevent it and has no chance to win. Bad gameplay and bad realism, i cant believe thats is still in the game.

From pure gameplay perspective. Isnt it stupid to give one side the 100% freekill, and then the otherside the 100% freekill? Freekills dont make sense, its boring for one side and frustrating for the other. Mission jumping and counterganks should equally not be possible. That it seems fair in the end is irrelevant, while it shouldnt be fair anyways. You should just get rekt at any capital without getting any freekill. Then we have functional mechanics and RoE.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Agreed to certain points here Banished: F11 coordinates in battle, mast thickness nerf, high ranks instead of newbies using the safe zones correctly - basically false design as you said, speed meta.

What I will never agree to is the hidden attitude of nearly all pro pvpers that they only want doable fights. Basically what signalling perk does. If the enemy is mediocre in skill level we will defeat them if not to heavily outnumbered. So we want the fights heavy and demanding but always want to win. I assume that, because in the most discussions there is nearly only pvpers discussing about mechanics that totally fit their purpose. What we forget and where the crux is: on our way to glory and the fancy screenshots and videos there is hundreds of bloody noobs or casuals just being quickly killed, not really mentioned and even faster forgotten. 

There may be some balancing needed here or there in the mechanics without doubt, but please be honest to yourselves here. If I get wrecked in front of a capital after I sank one or two noobs in their missions or found a poor fella that thinks he can kill my frig with his big guns on the big boat and tags me inside the safezone - to me this is only fair and square. Just try to change pov: to all the newbies and noobs the fight you or we won just weren't doable. You know what a success it is for casuals to sink known enemy players in front of the capitals? Even if some of them sink in this battle, they gonna come again and play. Win some, lose some that's how it should be - and for me it is currently.

I know you want to talk mechanics. To me this is more a matter of attitude.

You know what feels bad? If you sail with a fleet, you get suddenly attacked by 6 players and your fleet is spread out to cover bigger area. They can't join your battle in time because they need to sail upwind, battle timer 3 min and it closes. You end up in 1v6 with 3 of your friends just sitting outside. Signaling could be a great feature, even to balance fights with odds 2:1. Let's say I got attacked 1v6 and signaling would allow 2 of my friends to join making it 3v6 and giving us a chance to survive and fight it. 3v6 could be a nice fight, 1v6 will be always one side running , other chasing. Total waste of time for both sides. I might get away after 1h or might get caught after 1h. Obviously I will never say or call it "gg" or "wp". It's not a fight, it's a chase.

TL;DR signaling doesn't have to make odds 1:1, but should give a chance for inferior side to fight back, instead of just running.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

It's about SSD loading/reading times. My SSD allows me to load quickly.

Which doesn't change the fact, that it simply shouldn't matter. When I see a loading screen then I really should be in a loading screen and not already in the OW wasting valuable seconds without me even seeing it. And I think 5 seconds are fairly quickly (for the good old HDD) and doesn't justify a 11 second invisible timer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems to me many of you are looking at this only from one side. 

What seems to happen allot, is people go to an area to hunt players and have some OW pvp... fair enough... but more often than not they then wait till a player starts a mission or a fight with open world Ai fleets outside the reinforcement zone then jump into that fight. This is "ganking" in my book. The call then goes up " i just got sunk while doing..." and then/IF people respond, they come out to hunt the hunters. Now with the current invisible/speed buff after you leave a fight the chance 1 or two players outside of being in the right spot in the right ships to catch you is pretty dam remote even if they know the battles exact location. So you need allot more players to have a bigger "net" and therefore chance to catch the aggressors.

So then say you get caught by one of these "counter gankers" (who themselves have now become "gankers" in the others eyes) who happen to be in the right position and the right ships. (By luck or by planning it doesn't really matter). Generally the other X number of guys who then try to join the fight will take so long and join so far away that they will have no real chance of doing a thing but just watch. perhaps the lucky few guys who were close enough to be in the pull circle or join instantly, chase you in battle firing the odd chaser trying to reel you in while you fire back chasers trying to slow them down while you run which can take best part of an hour. (you can tell I've been there :P)

It's not always that way, you can get good tags and have a few guys close enough to get some broadsides off or the enemy may turn and fight, but with the difference of Open world scale to Battle scale, it can mean a guy right behind you in open world can be a long way off in the battle once you've joined.

What am trying to say is that neither side has it as easy as the other thinks.

Banished Privateer's comments (and others), are based from their point of view as players who's main game play is as an open world opportunist hunter (? hope that names ok)

Kutai and others is based on the guys who usually go hunt the hunters. 

Both sides see the other as "gankers".

and then there's the others who are just the poor guys who got "ganked" initally while doing farming/grinding/trading or whatever and are usually "new" players.

 

I agree the wind changes to fast in battles at certain times and Yes the increased turning circle while invisible after a fight is not good. To me, the speed/invisibility time is fine, if you changed the turn time.

As people are saying the re-tag drag into a fight, escape to be re-tagged again is a bad thing.

However, you should NOT be able to kill someone and sail away un-catchable. Nor should you have zero chance of escape when you do leave a battle. 

 

Some Suggestions: (doesn't cover everything raised)

1. Why not introduce a smaller tag circle after you escaped a fight for X mins. meaning enemy would have to be closer to you to pull you? and i do mean smaller not just 10%. This circle would then "grow" back to normal over time, but I'd also suggest combining that with a permanent scale change between open world and battle. So when you pull someone you start closer than you do now. If your two ship lengths away in open world when you pull someone and that is say, 8 lengths in battle, make it 4 or 6 lengths instead.

(Side note: join circles spawning in land is still an issue.)

2. Missions that are in a reinforce zone should say so when taken and offer a somewhat reduced reward. (perhaps not for new players for X days or X missions?)

3. Missions both in and outside of safe zones should NOT be joinable by enemy and be open for 10 mins on a "request to join" for friendlies (unless in same team/battle group/clan then you can just join in this time period). Markers should remain for missions outside the reinforce zone for a longer period (not forever) allowing hunters if they so wish to wait for a player/players to leave and attack them. (perhaps missions should not show exact numbers or BR but a range of numbers and BR) ( 1-4 players 150-450BR for e.g.)

4. Open world fleets "tagged" inside reinforce zones should  close instantly for enemy players (following same rules as missions above, request entry etc) while outside the zone they remain open for a time for anyone to join. If an enemy player does join the open world Ai fight then a timer for friendlies of the player who attacked the Ai fleet to join in would be started. e.g. Open world Ai fleet is attacked by player, after 3 mins battle closes. Enemy player joins at 2:59, time for friendlies to join is extended by 3 mins. (also see below)

5. The timer right now when a player attacks another player for others to then come help the attacked player seems to short. even if a player calls for help before the tag, most times people will not be able to get there and join in time before it closes. Perhaps a Dynamic timer based on BR difference. The higher the attacker BR compared to the defender the longer the battle stays open for the defenders to join, and if more defenders then join than attackers the attackers "open" timer increase's so they can get more help. in this way a battle could then "scale" up from a simple 1v1 to a 25v25 as the timer could get extended for each new joiner depending on who joins on which side and in what ships (BR). Just a thought. hope you get what i mean.

6. I also think that some nations ( GB is a prime example) have too big a reinforcement zone thanks to every port on Jamaica being "protected". Think Brits have 10 ports in total with zones, while other factions just have 2. seems unbalanced to me especially with no free ports (la Navasse for e.g.) no longer near Kingston.

 

This topic Banished has raised covers a significant part of Naval Action and is a major part of the game. You cannot change only the things to make life easier for one side. 

 

I think suggestion 5 might have some real potential though i may not of explained it right or missed a potential problem with it.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

P.S. will also post this in suggestions at some point. ( it's late)

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sureshot said:

I just think back to the days when you could capture all ships but much worse quality and all mods were craftable. People weren't terrified to lose ships so getting sunk didn't really matter too much. PvP was glorious then. All that PvP that could be just isn't, slowly turning the PvP server into PVE. :=p 

Ships are plenty cheap, but people still aren't going to leave port if they think it's more likely to get curbstomped than to find a good PVP battle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Ships are plenty cheap, but people still aren't going to leave port if they think it's more likely to get curbstomped than to find a good PVP battle. 

This, it's not fun to fight for an hour and get no rewards. Some fights are so unbalanced you can't sink anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×