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SKurj

EVE... pvp vs pve

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1 hour ago, Hethwill said:

How long to assemble a 1st rate equivalent ? How much trade and hauling to assemble the equivalent of a PB fleet ?

 

Put it this way @Hethwill you will need 150 Real life Days just to learn the skills needed. Resource planning, delegating and out sourcing was on a colossal scale. Losing it within a month after completion was horrific. EvEs nickname “Spreadsheets in Space...” is an adapt one.

 We still need to compare NA-OW to EvE Online and learn from its success as well as its mistakes. Ignore the competition, sticking one’s head in the sand is tantamount to suicide. The EvE economy yes is massive but so too is the player base compared to ours.

They CCP (the EvE Dev’s) heavily influence the economy, it is nowhere near player driven don’t be fooled. A FREE MARKET economy cannot work in the real world, at some point you need a Government Overlay. EvE Online and Naval Action are exactly the same. At some point you need an NPC overlay to stimulate or dampen market forces.

This is no easy task in virtual or otherwise...

The Game I now look back on like that old Girlfriend with fond memories. But she’s now dated and now would be even more demanding. The Combat mechanic is not even in the same league as Naval Action. It cannot change its too old and set in its ways a bit like the author...

 

 

Norfolk nNyx

 

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Thank you for the description. I knew, by friends that played it for a decade that many, of late years, content is curated.

The same happens with Elite D, but is somewhat different.

The purpose was exactly...

150 planks !?

40 frames !?

No sir... it is a National Home Fleet ship, it is a death star of the seas. It will take as much manpower and resources as it befits a ship of such power.

It will allow you to conquer land and new resources.

 

CTRa882.png

 

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1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

but the fact that anyone can go make 10 mil in less than 3 hours simply by doing missions in the safe zone makes gold useless.

I don‘t know you mate, but I doubt that you are able to make 10 million in 3 hours, by doing missions!

Apart from that:

Yes, many people have too much gold for it still being a valuable currency.

But it‘s a hard task to get the right ballance, so that every type of player has the chance to achieve something in a reasonable amount of time (the occasional ones as well as those hard core gamers).

So what would you suggest to both keep the ballance and increase the value of gold!?

Edited by Navalus Magnus

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3 hours ago, admin said:

If it was broken like you described you would not be able to do anything (trade, craft, supply)
you can make money by trading and can make a lot more money by trading in dangerous waters
you can make most money by smuggling goods to enemy capitals or out of them
you can supply players by repairs, guns, ships, materials
you can only craft higher level vessels
You broken economy statement is wrong. 

I dont like it does not mean broken. so please use proper terms here. say things as it is .. say you hate it.

- Trading in dangerous waters and smuggling? People just use alts of whichever nation controls that area...

I wasted alot of time trying to do risky smuggling for profit because it was more exciting gameplay - until realizing that everyone else just used alts to do the same with supreme ease and without the headache of smugglers being unable to place contracts.

- Sure you can make lots of money, but who cares about money with the hyper-inflation that always takes place.

- With ship tow you can move ships and cannons around with extreme ease, and materials don't really matter when you can craft ships anywhere and just tow them. So that leaves only repairs at best...

- Up until the latest patch the Wasa was one of the best ships in the game - making many other "crafted higher level vessels" obsolete - and accessible through notes.

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5 hours ago, admin said:

If it was broken like you described you would not be able to do anything (trade, craft, supply)
you can make money by trading and can make a lot more money by trading in dangerous waters
you can make most money by smuggling goods to enemy capitals or out of them
you can supply players by repairs, guns, ships, materials
you can only craft higher level vessels
You broken economy statement is wrong. 

I dont like it does not mean broken. so please use proper terms here.

I worded it poorly yes, my apologies.

The economy in the games is different and it's not supposed to be the same as eve. That being said i do believe the economy and ways to make money or find materials in the world of Naval action should change. But that's for another thread.

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I might be in the minority but I believe the proliferation of ship mods and books has been one of the worse developments in NA. The more you add the worse things have become. Why? Because you are trying to balance things like cannon penetration, armor thickness, sail hp's, mast strength, ship speeds, even healing ability.....but its not being done using anything remotely resembling a stable baseline. There are so many damn possible variables it has become increasingly difficult to balance the game. Not only from a pure combat mechanics point of view but I would argue from a economy perspective as well. Were vanilla ships armor thickness too great before the latest patch or could it be that it was due to stacking of various mods that made ships armor thickness too high? Were masts too weak if you ran certain mods or were they only too weak if you didn't use those mods? Are cannons absurdly accurate compared to the Age of Sail time period or is it due to various mod stacking? I don't think most of this can be truly evaluated because you simply have too many variables.

It's going to get even more complicated with 4+5 and 5+5 ships.....sure the number of them is relatively small right now but give it 3-4 more months and I bet it is quite a different situation. Mods need a serious review and beaten down with a nerf bat. Make mods available to everyone and make pvp marks give access to more cosmetic upgrades maybe. I like that ships can have some customization but the bonuses need to be toned down and mods/books should be available to everyone.....

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On 2/8/2018 at 4:02 AM, admin said:

If it was broken like you described you would not be able to do anything (trade, craft, supply)
you can make money by trading and can make a lot more money by trading in dangerous waters
you can make most money by smuggling goods to enemy capitals or out of them
you can supply players by repairs, guns, ships, materials
you can only craft higher level vessels
You broken economy statement is wrong. 

I dont like it does not mean broken. so please use proper terms here. say things as it is .. say you hate it.

+ NA players like you are very sensitive to the ability to play solo- we tried fully player driven economy, that required players to cooperate and travel and such.. majority of players became very upset when it happened as a result. Now we have player driven economy for half of the content, and npcs support it at some areas that need help (areas that players ignore for one or another reason).

+ eve economy is heavily supported by hidden npcs pretending to be players just the same way as naval action. So instead of European traders you see some guys selling stuff in large quantities at high prices in most centers. 

It isnt?   So let me ask you this.  How does the economy work in this game?  So far I see a small group of people who pretty much can do EVERYTHING on their own.   There is very little need for any actual trade, no merchant ships hauling good, and the movement of freight is nonexistent. 

On 2/8/2018 at 4:53 AM, HachiRoku said:

If I wanted to grind stuff for months to PVE I would play eve. This is naval action and not eve. Stop comparing them. 

Dont you do this already?   Grind NPC ships to get the modules open, then grind NPC ships to get the books and modules you want.  

 

The thing is about Eve vs NA, is Eve has 15 years of experience behind it.  The economy was built by experts day one and managed by experts to this day.   It isnt built by a programmer who knows very little about world economy.    In Eve you can sit in a station and do commodities trading and actually turn a profit, in NA you cant even sit in port and set shipping orders for players to take.     The only draw to NA is the age of sail combat.  And even that has a limited life span.  Kind of like WWII games, they come and go in fads.  This was never a hugely popular time period and I dont see it gaining in popularity any time soon. 

 

I imagine if this game had more money, and developers and a bigger power behind it pushing it.  It could be Eve like in scale.  But not likely to happen anytime soon.

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15 minutes ago, Odol said:

It isnt?   So let me ask you this.  How does the economy work in this game?  So far I see a small group of people who pretty much can do EVERYTHING on their own.   There is very little need for any actual trade, no merchant ships hauling good, and the movement of freight is nonexistent. 

A lot of players are hauling and a lot of players are trading. As i said before the fact that you dont like it does not make it broken. 
There is a huge difference between "broken" and "you do not like it"

  • You cannot build any ship or function because economy does not work at all = aka = broken
  • You can do pretty much everything as a small group = economy works = but you want 100 players to cooperate in a construction of a single first rate over the course of 3 months. - and do not like that it is optimized for a small 3-4 player group and is even possible solo.

There is need of actual trade and you can make a lot supplying free towns by repairs and guns for example. First rates are built by players and it does not look like broken at all to a player who plays in a small group. 

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Just now, admin said:

A lot of players are hauling and a lot of players are trading. As i said before the fact that you dont like it does not make it broken. 
There is a huge difference between "broken" and "you do not like it"

  • You cannot build any ship or function because economy does not work at all = aka = broken
  • You can do pretty much everything as a small group = economy works = but you want 100 players to cooperate in a construction of a single first rate over the course of 3 months. - and do not like that it is optimized for a small 3-4 player group and is even possible solo.

There is need of actual trade and you can make a lot supplying free towns by repairs and guns for example. First rates are built by players and it does not look like broken at all to a player who plays in a small group. 

I am thinking you are taking the strawman stance on things.  While the economy is not "broken" it is, non-functional.  

 

And you CANT build any ship.  Last time I was able to build a rattlesnake was nearly a year ago.  The idea of a functioning economy is an economy that can stand on its own.   It isn't capable of doing that here in this game.  It came close a few times with the regional goods and materials for ship crafting.   But that was scrapped almost as fast as it came out.  

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Odol said:

In Eve you can sit in a station and do commodities trading and actually turn a profit, in NA you cant even sit in port and set shipping orders for players to take.     The only draw to NA is the age of sail combat.  And even that has a limited life span.  Kind of like WWII games, they come and go in fads.  This was never a hugely popular time period and I dont see it gaining in popularity any time soon.

Sure, the only draw is age of sail combat.

Unlike that hugely popular goliath of the videogame market... commodities trading.

Uh, yeah, gimme some more of that sweet unobtainium futures portfolio...

I'll stick with the unpopular naval combat if it's OK with you.

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Just now, maturin said:

Yeah, the only draw is age of sail combat.

Unlike that hugely popular goliath of the videogame market... commodities trading.

Uh, yeah, gimme some more of that sweet unobtainium futures portfolio...

That is someones version of fun.  Market pvp.

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On 2/8/2018 at 12:09 AM, SKurj said:

1. Its been a long time since I played EVE... How could we bring that to NA?  Right now the best gear, combined with a little skill makes you OP, especially when combined with the best books...

2. How can we make it so you put away that op stuff that cost a fortune, or took months of grinding, and bring back cheap ships, pvp fits easily and cheaply replaced?

1. EVE has its issues.  NA could and should be something better.

Our community has plenty of members who believe in rare mods.  There are plenty of players who think that it is not gear based PvP.  It would be nice if you could make them understand that NA is today a gear warrior game.

2. I don't recommend EVE way of life.  It should not be about some expensive or rare gear etc.  Better remove/minimize gear advantage so that from veteran to new players everyone has equal change to win.  Should alone make people to sail out from the green more often.

 

On 2/8/2018 at 12:19 PM, King of Crowns said:

Gold is almost useless as a result. you need to have more things server side that absorb money. such as crew or port costs.

I liked your post in general but crew costs part is something I want to make clear here.

Before the last wipe crew was expensive.  It was an issue for new players.  I told here on forum that it is too expensive for new guys.  Nothing was done, EVER.

After Mega patch when none had gold, everyone was crying from crew costs.  Now we sure get more gold than those early days after wipe but I would be very careful with this one.  Crew is something that hurts early economies.  New guys lose most ships, they lose most crew.  This is not that big issue for players who have healthy economy and money already.

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