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King of Crowns

Safe zone Rework

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So I recently had a guy get the game and I was trying to get him into the game. so we spent the first 20 hours of his gameplay grinding AI. so we finally got him undercrewing a ENDY and we went out to find pvp. So we sail over to KPR and Tortue and USA east coast. long story short in over 80 hours since then he has been in 3 PvP fights with a total of almost 100 hours in game. Main reason for the waste of 80 hours was safe zones. so this guy is done he will never play the game again and I don't really blame him. if that was my experience in the game I wouldn't play it either. 

Suggestions

Safe zone rework. all you did with the safe zones was put a band aid on a broken arm. You have given no reason any player to leave the safe zone. Everything in this game can be done inside the safe zone. This removes any hopes of finding players outside the safe zone. Newbs need to be protected, that is true. rear admirals do not. max rank players use the safe zones more than the newbs do. Create a non PVP zone in the pacific and throw every new player regardless of nation in that area of the map at the same port and give them the tutorial and missions to do. they can have 0 interaction with anyone from the Caribbean. When they are ready they press a button and get a BIG BIG BIG BIG BIG  warning sign saying your are now entering the hostile world of the carribean where you can be killed by enemy ships and you cannot return are you sure you want to do this area. then remove all safe zones from the carribean map.  PVP is your content. and your safe zones have killed your content in the game. a bear minimum only make the safe zone apply to their capitals. and then make it so that no missions or econ spawns inside that safe zone. 

Allow the new player to pick one random port somewhere on the map belonging to his nation to put his first outpost. (a new player having to AFK sail for 4 hours to get to the frontline is a major turn off. 

Remove your captain rank. The leveling up system is just a burden and nothing more. "oh before you can be in a good ship you need to go shoot ai for 30 hours." there is no reason for this. if a player can afford a ship they should be able to sail it. there should be no limit to the amount of his max crew because of his rank. the system is old and outdated. it has no point. you could say that it was for new players to learn to play the game. but you now have a tutorial. 

Maybe bring back the pvp events or something for the non rvr players to do. 

UI....... enough said.. needs a soundtrack and some other feel good things. tooltips.

just more content in general. raids/escort missions/ bounty stystem/ reputation system/ all  the other crap that the community has suggested in the last 2 years. open world is still empty and mostly pointless. 

at the current state of the game if your not a hard core gamer or an age of sail fanatic then your not going to stick around. 

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Well, I wont say I disagree with a lot of what you have suggested and agree that a lot of the grind and RNG loot is so dated they never should have introduced it. However, I don't have a huge problem with the safe zones and really they have made the game so skewed toward gear it almost necessitates it. The truth of the matter is that new players already have, and always have had, very limited chance of success against veteran players. However, this game has become so gear driven that whatever slim chance they had before is a million times smaller than it is now. In fact they have ZERO chance of success.....absolute ZERO. Why the hello kitty would these guys leave a safe zone when the only outcome they will experience in any fight against another player is to lose everything?

If you take two very experienced pvp'ers and give one mods and the other no mods they all agree who wins. Hell....you give one certain mast mods and not the other and we pretty much know who wins. This game has way less to do with skill and way more to do with mods and skillbooks.....so why the hell would they leave the green zone? Meanwhile, we got the pros camping outside these zones feeding on easy targets with little risk vs the reward. The whole game is in a way shittier state than it was when I stopped playing I'll say that. You want to encourage PvP? My first suggestion would be to make the playing field a bit more level for starters. Nobody wants to be cannon fodder for guys with gear and skillbooks that make them untouchable to those who don't have them. And anyone who tries downplaying the effect of mods and books is so full of shit I for one laugh in your face and will be the first to tell them they are a complete hypocrite. Anyone who really likes competitive PvP doesn't hide behind exclusive gear and try acting like it doesn't matter. 

 

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17 minutes ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

Well, I wont say I disagree with a lot of what you have suggested and agree that a lot of the grind and RNG loot is so dated they never should have introduced it. However, I don't have a huge problem with the safe zones and really they have made the game so skewed toward gear it almost necessitates it. The truth of the matter is that new players already have, and always have had, very limited chance of success against veteran players. However, this game has become so gear driven that whatever slim chance they had before is a million times smaller than it is now. In fact they have ZERO chance of success.....absolute ZERO. Why the hello kitty would these guys leave a safe zone when the only outcome they will experience in any fight against another player is to lose everything?

If you take two very experienced pvp'ers and give one mods and the other no mods they all agree who wins. Hell....you give one certain mast mods and not the other and we pretty much know who wins. This game has way less to do with skill and way more to do with mods and skillbooks.....so why the hell would they leave the green zone? Meanwhile, we got the pros camping outside these zones feeding on easy targets with little risk vs the reward. The whole game is in a way shittier state than it was when I stopped playing I'll say that. You want to encourage PvP? My first suggestion would be to make the playing field a bit more level for starters. Nobody wants to be cannon fodder for guys with gear and skillbooks that make them untouchable to those who don't have them. And anyone who tries downplaying the effect of mods and books is so full of shit I for one laugh in your face and will be the first to tell them they are a complete hypocrite. Anyone who really likes competitive PvP doesn't hide behind exclusive gear and try acting like it doesn't matter. 

 

those mods and books are the only reason they have to leave the safe zone... sorta...... they can only be found from open world fleets....... its not newbs sitting in the safe zones that I have a problem with... its the max rank players grinding money or ship xp or books and upgrades (if ai fleet happens to sail into the safe zone). 

The game is still about skill and a good player will be able to defeat several newbs. Yes some of that is due to upgrades. but the better ships and better upgrades give you progression the game. if you take those out or make them useless you give people even less reason to play the game. There does need to be a better way to find them other than RNG drop from ai. but admin has said this is what he wants.  

 

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Well they might want it but this game is becoming a joke of a pvp game if you ask me. I still will take that $100 bet with any pro players over on Legends.....5 average players versus 1 veteran....all in the same ship and all with the same gear and see who wins. Nobody became uber pro post 10.0 patch.....hell the same "pro" players were playing prior to the patch and were not even remotely close to pulling off the same "heroics". Anyone who is saying otherwise is full of shit.....

The fix is not that complicated:

1. NERF THE HELL OUT OF ALL MODS

2. LIMIT THE ABILITY TO STACK MODS

3. MAKE MODS THAT GIVE BONUSES TO STATS HAVE NEGATIVES AS WELL

4. FIX MASTS SO THEY ARE NOT MADE OUT OF PAPER

5. ELIMINATE RNG.....EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO HOW  THEY WANT TO CUSTOMIZE THEIR SHIP

6. DEVELOP SOME REAL CONTENT AND REASON TO EXPLORE THE WORLD

 

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1 minute ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

Well they might want it but this game is becoming a joke of a pvp game if you ask me. I still will take that $100 bet with any pro players over on Legends.....5 average players versus 1 veteran....all in the same ship and all with the same gear and see who wins. Nobody became uber pro post 10.0 patch.....hell the same "pro" players were playing prior to the patch and were not even remotely close to pulling off the same "heroics". Anyone who is saying otherwise is full of shit.....

The fix is not that complicated:

1. NERF THE HELL OUT OF ALL MODS

2. LIMIT THE ABILITY TO STACK MODS

3. MAKE MODS THAT GIVE BONUSES TO STATS HAVE NEGATIVES AS WELL

4. FIX MASTS SO THEY ARE NOT MADE OUT OF PAPER

5. ELIMINATE RNG.....EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ACCESS TO HOW  THEY WANT TO CUSTOMIZE THEIR SHIP

6. DEVELOP SOME REAL CONTENT AND REASON TO EXPLORE THE WORLD

 

4. and 6 are good.  RNG has been put back in the game for good. admin has said that its staying.    mods just give you something to work towards. and it makes each ship more unique. even though you may have the exzact same ship it has a totally different role. example. fir fir trinc rigged for boarding. as aposed to a LO/WO trinc rigged for gunner. Mods are a good thing. you can buy them with in game currency most of the time. pvp marks/combat marks/victory marks. 

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Admin said that the game will be balanced so that 1 good player can win 4-5 new guys.  Add there the gear advantage and we have something called Naval Action.

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2 minutes ago, King of Crowns said:

4. and 6 are good.  RNG has been put back in the game for good. admin has said that its staying.    mods just give you something to work towards. and it makes each ship more unique. even though you may have the exzact same ship it has a totally different role. example. fir fir trinc rigged for boarding. as aposed to a LO/WO trinc rigged for gunner. Mods are a good thing. you can buy them with in game currency most of the time. pvp marks/combat marks/victory marks. 

I did not say to eliminate Mods though.....I have NEVER called for eliminating mods. What I said is that they should be nerfed so that they do not play such a dominate role in determining the outcome of fights. This is exactly how NA was for it's first 2.5 -3 years of existence.....this dumb shit didn't go full retard mode till the 10.0 patch came out. I don't know what acid trip they decided to go on over in the planning room to go down this path. Nobody should be able to stack mods so many mods that there ship becomes virtually impenetrable to cannon fire....or ships that are going way faster than what was even close to historical.....or masts that become virtually indestructible....or boarding mods that turn your crew into shock troops of instant death.....or penetration mods that turn your cannons into rail guns. STOP THE INSANITY!!! 

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1 hour ago, King of Crowns said:

Create a non PVP zone in the pacific and throw every new player regardless of nation in that area of the map at the same port and give them the tutorial and missions to do

1. That might be a good idea!

If the playerbase grew devs could even create a safe haven / area to train things for each nation, back in Europe / North America.

There every player could do some missions, even trade and afterwards move to the carribean (frontier) with all stuff achieved so far.

2. Of course others mentioned other ideas before. For example to let safe zones stay like they are, but only for players up to a certain rank!

The downside of this particular idea is it’s potential for exploits: Low level alts could be used for purposes of safe trading.

With the above mentioned idea (1.) this kind of exploit could be denied.

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cadets should start at the Naval Academy on PvE server.

Upon passing final exams have the choice to graduate and be stationed in the Caribbean or remain at home.

( meaning free character transfer to the pvp server )

No idea how easy or hard this is to the database works.

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I think that pushing solo & new players out of safe zone is a real problem right now, maybe the solution would not be to nerf the safe zone, i still see plenty of noobs killed there via mission jumping or any other trick, maybe the solution could be to bring back the secondary capital outpost on the bahamas (close to the center of the map) so new players, after spending some time under capital protection, can tp  to the bahamas where there is no safe zone, and start in the world of unsafe ow pvp & rvr in the shallow, wich is pretty accessible to anyone and cheap to participate and replace. Plus there is quite some valuable ports there now.

If players have no interest into shallow fights, they can still sail to a deepwater freetown nearby and drop their shallow outpost.

I say that because  as a french, i talk to a lot of players who ask to join for pvp / rvr, but never want to take the time to sail from Fort Royal to La Navasse / Great Corn / la Tortue / Shroud Cay.

 

We had those shallow capitals back in the day, but newbs were thrown there with no protection and when it was empty, those could be more viable as a second step imo.

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1 minute ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

I think that pushing solo & new players out of safe zone is a real problem right now, maybe the solution would not be to nerf the safe zone, i still see plenty of noobs killed there via mission jumping or any other trick, maybe the solution could be to bring back the secondary capital outpost on the bahamas (close to the center of the map) so new players, after spending some time under capital protection, can tp  to the bahamas where there is no safe zone, and start in the world of unsafe ow pvp & rvr in the shallow, wich is pretty accessible to anyone and cheap to participate and replace. Plus there is quite some valuable ports there now.

If players have no interest into shallow fights, they can still sail to a deepwater freetown nearby and drop their shallow outpost.

I say that because  as a french, i talk to a lot of players who ask to join for pvp / rvr, but never want to take the time to sail from Fort Royal to La Navasse / Great Corn / la Tortue / Shroud Cay.

 

We had those shallow capitals back in the day, but newbs were thrown there with no protection and when it was empty, those could be more viable as a second step imo.

The noobs die in safezones because:

1. someone from another nation sails there and waits to get tagged. Now noobs get slaughtered even if they have more ships

2. they are close to friendly AI. AI gets tagged and they get pulled

 

The 2nd point has to be fixed. The first I dont know

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I think the safe zones are generally fine and it does not stop the constant farming at KPR. AI fleet tagging is a bit of a pain though. However, they could vary in size  based on the prevailing visibility - out of sight = out of safe zone. Night and rain storms etc. After all if your  signal for reinforcements can't be seen from the shore they can't help!

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Safe zones in some places are absolutely massive. The US coast from Brunswick to Charleston is all safe zone. 

I'm in Prussia and we don't have a safe zone. It's never been a problem. I believe they are nessecary around capitals for some nations because once upon a time we would camp Charleston and totally lock in the US all night. 

Only one capital per major nation should be a safe zone and it should be 25% smaller. 

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Safe zones and their existence isn't a problem.. I feel they need to be there to protect younglings and be a buffer for people who are truly interested in more PvE in their mix of PvE:PvP. But I think you could encourage people leaving safe zones by hobbling the economy and rewards within the zone. Raise taxes to 50% for the safe zone. You'll have to pay for the protection a nation offers.

Make it so only level one production buildings can be built inside safe zones. Only level two within a county's distance of that safe zone, and level three everywhere else.  Next, make it so missions and AI kills within a safe zone pay 1/4 in xp and gold that they do currently. Increase to 1/2 one county distance away, and full rewards elsewhere. 

All of these changes could come with a significant buff to low level mission rewards and 6-7 rate kill/assist bonuses, to help the new players along. But by the time they are leveling 5th rates they should be establishing forward operating bases to make money and xp.

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I like pacific idea, and complete removal of reinforcement zones.

To protect new players to pvp simple captain ranking can be added where high points captain would get only minimum rewards, hence they will stop focusing new players as this would not be worth an effort. 

Captain ranking should add up in bigger battles too, to provide incentive for fights with ranking disadvantage. This would also impact pvp mark farmers as everone will focus them due to their high captain ranking :)

 

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Nothing bad in safe zones in general.  It can be that those are slightly too big but in general idea there is nothing wrong.  I like the idea that people are able to farm bots to get xp and gold for their future PvP actions.

The game needs content that is rewarding enough to make players to sail out from the green zone.

A very simple idea: A clan captures a port.  If they do missions in this region/port they get something extra.  Either clan gets or players get.  People wont be doing missions in capital green zone as they want to support their clan port.  Why don't we have this already?

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There could be also a "Quest" system.

Quest you get from different ports but once done there may not be new quests from the same port immediately.  You would not get these from green zone.

Quest could be like a mission but random location etc.  Combat quest could be that Governor asks you to get rid from local pirate problem -> Which would turn to normal mission, but you can do it only once and get additional reward.  Trade quest could be that part of port housing got burned and they need new materials asap.  Then you get some lumber for these guys.

Eventually you could make different contacts that give quests.  Later give them faces. etc.

Reasons for people to sail out from the green zone.

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14 minutes ago, Przemo said:

Protecting PvP players in PvP game on PvP server prom PvP... ;D

No safe zones above Commodore please.

You sound like you love to play gank PvP.

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Safezones are large and full of loopholes. Better to have a small, perfect safezone that a large half useless one.

We should be encouraging people to leave the zone, not push them out.

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50 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

A very simple idea: A clan captures a port.  If they do missions in this region/port they get something extra.  Either clan gets or players get.  People wont be doing missions in capital green zone as they want to support their clan port.  Why don't we have this already?

They won't. The possibility of reward does not surpass the need of safety.

The possibility of experiencing the full age of sail in the west indies simulation must be the driving force behind it and not only the  - pvp for the sake of pvp.

It is a volatile mixture of not embracing the full experience, both wins and losses come what may and learn as you go, and the non stop ego wars, as many fellows confide - no godamn way they gonna give some brat the satisfaction of posting a silly chat box or a gank screen, they came after work to have a good game and not to feed some needy ego that doesn't even GG.

I totally get them and try, at best, to encourage to go out and learn as the vets did. And I am talking for long years and thousand of hours of game with tons of changes every month, as a game under development is meant to. Still they strive due to basic knowledge never gets lost.

Grab your buddies and get out there.

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35 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

They won't. The possibility of reward does not surpass the need of safety.

I think they will.  If a guy cannot lose his last ship it can be that he will be grinding in green zone.

Clans would definitely risk to get something for their clan/port or that some additional personal reward.  Your clan captures a port and you want to build forts.  It could be a clan event to defend traders who transport materials to port.

Quest are content for PvE and PvP server.  You could have PvP quests as well.  PvE and PvP missions can both lure you out from safe zones.

 

What do I know... Maybe it is then better to stick with our s.hitty missions to grind bots and camp and gank around safe zones. GG

...

We could also add German 88mm gun.  Just to F up the balance a bit more.  None seems to care about it anyway, right?

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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2 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

You sound like you love to play gank PvP.

Never judge someone without proper info because someone might judge you with the same bullshit thinking :)

Protect newbies - yes

protect commodore/ rear admiral - NO

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3 hours ago, Przemo said:

Never judge someone without proper info because someone might judge you with the same bullshit thinking :)

Protect newbies - yes

protect commodore/ rear admiral - NO

Max rank does not really mean that someone is not a newbie or that he has not lost all his stuff in recent PvP activities.

Think safe zones as end game zones to make money to buy/craft a ship for PvP.

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