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RNG Crafting Trim/Slots

RNG Crafting  

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  1. 1. Do you like recent crafting changes?



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1 minute ago, Palatinose said:

As far as I know, there is only one negative refit noted until now. Well, break off those ships then. So basically all you can then get is better ships than before. Get nothing? Your ship is still as good as before. Get cramped? Go for boarding. Get a Buc at very fast? Doesnt make sense but I'll take the 0.2 knots anyways. Even for pbs some differneces in ships aren't bad. Got a heavy rig? Well you will lead the line.

If we're honest we don't have enough wood for all the ships we would need to build till we get our perfect ship. So just use what we got. And as its RNG it's finally something that doesn't widen the gap between casual and pro.

Basically that is true. But this doesn't work in a world, where everyone needs to have the very best.

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The problem is most acute in PB ships. If the prevalent strategy becomes to take 5-5 ships with cartagena trim, cartagena caulking refit, navy structure refit and what not - then imagine the amount of first rates to be spewed out just to get those 5-5 ships? - Only three nations automatically gets a shitload of VM to keep spewing out the largest ships i.e. it will excacerbate an already screwed balance in favour of the strongest factions. This ofcourse will mean that most players will use forged papers to get into one of those factions and the balance becomes a distant memory.

How much fun is there when only two or three factions are actually viable to play? - Let's ask the globals, they've experienced it before.

#Globalserverfailedsohardsoletsalltryitalloveragain

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3 hours ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

But will these 3/5 or 2/3 vessels really sell???

 

they will, at a lower price.

As far as I see, purple are very rare and gold are ... yet to see one (both crafted by myslef and on the market).

Point is that if blue is 90% of total production, then this will be the "normal" ship, and purple/gold will be rare and pricey.

The difference between now and before is that before there was no RNG at all, since a crafter could decide to craft a gold ship by using pricey special ingredients and the result was 99% granted (this was the reason why only gold ships were in the market); now it's totally RNG and with a very low drop rate.

So - being myself a ship crafter and dealer - I do not see the problem, and - basically - I like the change since when I craft I could get a lucky strike from now and then

Edited by victor

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6 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

The problem is most acute in PB ships. If the prevalent strategy becomes to take 5-5 ships with cartagena trim

Lars how big is the chance for such a ship? One in a hundred? Not enough i think. Using these stats as a basis and taking in the availability of victory marks (I'm swedish, I got 7 VMs atm) and the costs for logs like white oak and teak into consideration: well the chance for a fleet of those ships are..let's just say rare. Anyone seeing exploit possibilities? To me it's totally fine.

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You could easily implement a system where you take a built ship and add upgrades to it with resources and labour hours. Then again by doing this, anything that hasn't been upgraded by a crafter would be useless.

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4 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

Lars how big is the chance for such a ship? One in a hundred? Not enough i think. Using these stats as a basis and taking in the availability of victory marks (I'm swedish, I got 7 VMs atm) and the costs for logs like white oak and teak into consideration: well the chance for a fleet of those ships are..let's just say rare. Anyone seeing exploit possibilities? To me it's totally fine.

Teak and white oak is in ready supply and you're forgetting the rate you actually loose first rates. It's not quite that often so if we take a longer perspective on the PBs in time the gravitation will pull to enforce those factions that are already at the top.

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I would have rather had fine wood back. At least then when i finally got all the special wood i needed i could craft the ship. Now i just have to roll and roll and roll. I feel it would have been a much better idea to have all these trims tied to rare mats that can then be added during crafting to add them to the ship like plank/frame. PVE, special port spawns like carta/copper i don't really care how you go about getting the mats.

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1 hour ago, victor said:

As far as I see, purple are very rare and gold are ... yet to see one (both crafted by myslef and on the market).

Gold ships (with max slots) never ended up on the open market last time we tried this. All the people and clans I know and knew pumped out ships to get the best for themselves and dumped the craft-waste in the shops for the poorfags.

Casual players may find more perfectly fine ships at cost based prices, that is a good thing. I worry about all the other known and unknown issues this will cause.

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5 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Gold ships never ended up on the open market last time we tried this. All the people and clans I know and knew pumped out ships to get the best for themselves and dumped the craft-waste in the shops for the poorfags.

Casual players may find more perfectly fine ships at cost based prices, that is a good thing. I worry about all the other known and unknown issues this will cause.

That's definitely not true, I distinctly remember buying multiple 3/5 gold ships off the market. I wasn't a crafter and wasn't interested in clans so it was my only supply of ships.

However this time I don't think it's possible to only use gold ships, they seem to be just too rare. So most of us will probably end up using 3/5 or 4/5 ships, some with and some without trims.

Yesterday I crafted 12 ships. eight were normal 3/5, three were 3/5 with a trim, and one was 4/5 without a trim.

It seems that perfect ships are so rare that they can't become a "meta".

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okay how about a compromise everyone. What if these RNG bonuses gave a reduced percentage and the odds of landing an amazing one is also reduced? While upgrades apart from the upgrades that were already tweaked in previous patch/hotfix were also reduced. Placing more emphasis on the wood types.

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1 hour ago, Palatinose said:

As far as I know, there is only one negative refit noted until now. Well, break off those ships then. So basically all you can then get is better ships than before. Get nothing? Your ship is still as good as before. Get cramped? Go for boarding. Get a Buc at very fast? Doesnt make sense but I'll take the 0.2 knots anyways. Even for pbs some differneces in ships aren't bad. Got a heavy rig? Well you will lead the line.

If we're honest we don't have enough wood for all the ships we would need to build till we get our perfect ship. So just use what we got. And as its RNG it's finally something that doesn't widen the gap between casual and pro.

I can see if you want a fast with the wind ship and get like something Nassey Refit that gives you Jib Sail that wouldn't be a good perk.  Mainly it would be the wind direction perks that some one might not like cause it would effect there ship. For me that might be a ship I ask if some one else wants for a special build and than post it for sail if no one in clan wants it.  Though the amount is so small I don't think you would notice it much unless that is what your build is about getting the best out of a wind direction.

1 hour ago, Palatinose said:

Lars how big is the chance for such a ship? One in a hundred? Not enough i think. Using these stats as a basis and taking in the availability of victory marks (I'm swedish, I got 7 VMs atm) and the costs for logs like white oak and teak into consideration: well the chance for a fleet of those ships are..let's just say rare. Anyone seeing exploit possibilities? To me it's totally fine.

The other night I made about a dozen ships between two chars.  I got a few good perks in there.  A mecury with 4/5 slots but no perks.  An Aggy Teak/WO with super fast I'll build up with my main for fighting.  I got a no perk Teak/Teak connie (sold) and an Strong Rig Wappen Teak/Wo that I sold cause I didn't want it but was testing the drops.   They where so minor it's not going to effect my over all play. I'm still going to burn through these redeemables ships I have before I go making a tons of ships. I might make some for PB's and such but for OW I'll keep to what I got until they run out.

8 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Gold ships (with max slots) never ended up on the open market last time we tried this. All the people and clans I know and knew pumped out ships to get the best for themselves and dumped the craft-waste in the shops for the poorfags.

Casual players may find more perfectly fine ships at cost based prices, that is a good thing. I worry about all the other known and unknown issues this will cause.

But those casual players are 90% of the game pop....so what if we pump out a bunch. I sold two ships the other night that I didn't like the out come, well one was a Wappen and I hate them, but was just playing around.  Both ships sold on themarket before I even logged out to go to work.   SO folks will buy them and use them cause well they are still better than AI shop or captured ships.   When BLACK was on GLOBAL we had a concept that keep folks fighting. IF you make ships, post them cheap as dirt (pretty much cost) and folks will buy them. They will sail them and they will fight and they did.  Unlike other nations that would post there ships up 500% mark up in profit and wonder why no one will buy them or if they do they cost way to much to risk in a PvP fight.

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I believe @admin said he loved this feature so complaining may be futile. What about if this RNG aspect did not happen to 1st rates? Throw us non VM producing players a bone here. 

Edited by Farrago

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1 hour ago, Palatinose said:

As far as I know, there is only one negative refit noted until now.

which is?

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8 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

That's definitely not true, I distinctly remember buying multiple 3/5 gold ships off the market. I wasn't a crafter and wasn't interested in clans so it was my only supply of ships.

However this time I don't think it's possible to only use gold ships, they seem to be just too rare. So most of us will probably end up using 3/5 or 4/5 ships, some with and some without trims.

Yesterday I crafted 12 ships. eight were normal 3/5, three were 3/5 with a trim, and one was 4/5 without a trim.

It seems that perfect ships are so rare that they can't become a "meta".

Sounds like you got about the same odds as I did. I'm going to test a few trade ships and light ships today as I have one lat still at crafting level 15 I need to grind up along with his main level.   

1 minute ago, Farrago said:

I believe @admin said he loved this feature so complaining may be futile. What about if this RNG aspect did not happen to 1st rates? Throw us non VM producing players a bone here. 

Are maybe the higher the rate of ship the more rare the perk/bonus is to get.  I made a LO/WO Santi in all that too and got a Sturdy.  Would of been nice if it was the Cart Refit but oh well it will get that when I finish gridning out the slots and turn it into a PB ship.  This does allow for a small chance of the folks that are sitting on stacks of VM's to get a nice speical ship.  Remember folks VM's are also bought with PvP marks, if you want them and you can get more than some top three nation, you just got to get out and PvP.  Which any nation can do.

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12 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

That's definitely not true, I distinctly remember buying multiple 3/5 gold ships off the market.

Did they have stiffness, by any chance?

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1 minute ago, admin said:

which is?

There is none per say unless your trying to build a ship with Jib force and you get Main force perks.  That would be the only negative perks I would see every thing else is nothing but postive.

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1 minute ago, jodgi said:

Shabby

awww I just refreshed the page didn't see that one on the list...lol  Well some times there where crappy ships...I'm sure some poor soul would buy it off the market not knowing what Shabby does...lol  Get your used car salesman shoes on for that one....

 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

that only spawns on npc captured ships

awwww hint the comments of then being shabby or more crappy ships than player built ones....cool

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33 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

It seems that perfect ships are so rare that they can't become a "meta".

yep, and that's basically why this new system is overall a good thing for crafters and is not like the "old" one

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Could get more people crafting , could also be an exercise in trickle down economics with the so called 3/5 no bonus ships being sent to the market cheaper than they have before.

I'm not so worried as some, but wasn't here when it was last in game so ... no real opinion

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10 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

Could get more people crafting , could also be an exercise in trickle down economics with the so called 3/5 no bonus ships being sent to the market cheaper than they have before.

I'm not so worried as some, but wasn't here when it was last in game so ... no real opinion

I sold that Wappen and Connie for 500K each and they went in seconds.  I mean they cost me permits I had sitting around but I would prefer them to be in hands of Casual players than breaking them up any way.  So yah I can see how it helps get ships into the majority of the players, which is in trueth the majority of the players on the game.  Us on the forums is only like 10% of the players.

25 minutes ago, victor said:

yep, and that's basically why this new system is overall a good thing for crafters and is not like the "old" one

Yah the old system I was cursed to always get a 2/4 or 3/4 ship when I built one for myself, but when I built one for a clan mate they got 3/4 3/5's....RNG hates me.  For the most part we aren't getting an RNG build ship as Dev said we are getting 3/5's every time with a slight chance my crew of crafty midgets did great work and earned there rum for the day and produced a great quality ship.

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For me its ok, having a % a luck to craft or captur in pvp/pve a rare ship its good and attractive

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NO. RNG Crafting is bad. Very bad. No. Pls remove. Pls nerf. Bad. Very bad. 

We tried it and it wasn't liked. 

If you absolutely positively have to have RNG in crafting, couldn't it be done differently? Instead of being able to get a 5/5 ship, why not have all ships turn out 3/5 but have a 4th slot that contains an RNG bonus. You would always get some RNG bonus when crafting, but you couldn't choose what it is. The current bonuses: fast/very fast, cramped/very cramped, agile/very agile, etc. would need to be adjusted: have only one bonus for each type: very fast, very cramped, very agile, etc. Then no ships crafted would ever be junk, just maybe not the build you wanted. But if you got "very fast" and wanted "very agile," maybe you could trade ships with somebody.

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