Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
admin

Hotfix for patch 14.

Recommended Posts

While I have not been playing long, I find it is a good idea to remind myself and others on occasion, that this game is still in ALPHA! Think on this. The developers have thousands of hours of work to do, while still having to pay their individual bills along with the bills that come with hosting servers and maintenance, all the while getting (random guess) less than 50 copy's purchased a month.  I am happy that @adminactually posted patch notes this time. Never saw the hotfix patch notes from the release last week.

In short:

Keep up with the patience
Don't stop critiquing (because this is important for the devs to get a read on players)

"And don't stop... believing!"

Edited by Molder169
Grammer
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Lieste said:

Depends on muzzle velocity ;)

For a gun of 7.5ft (Frigate and 1st rate Qtr deck @ 1536fps for full charge (1/3rd shot weight)):
1100yds full charge, 1000yds first reduce, 875yds second reduce.
Double shot:
475/675 yds for first reduce, 300/525yds for second reduce (second/first ball)
 

Let me get this straight, a 12-pounder penetrates 22" of oak when the velocity is only 734ft/s? That's way into the subsonic range. And the shot only falls to that velocity after 1100 yards if fired with full charge (1526 f/s)?

That's impressive, so a frigate will be hulling SoLs even at extreme range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, troody said:

oh great....more thickness.....

 

did they read any of the last 20.000 comments from players in the last 2 months.....?

You probably didn't convince them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, maturin said:

Let me get this straight, a 12-pounder penetrates 22" of oak when the velocity is only 734ft/s? That's way into the subsonic range. And the shot only falls to that velocity after 1100 yards if fired with full charge (1526 f/s)?

That's impressive, so a frigate will be hulling SoLs even at extreme range.

That is what the contemporary (early C19th) experimentations show, and also supports the use of double shot & half charges within musket shot as being entirely valid (until you meet overbuilt Live Oak frigates of course).
Note that shots striking water first may lose some velocity. Shot hitting iron fittings may shatter, or have reduced penetration (while affecting more of the side than only the subcalibre shot path). Shot defective in weight by voids will slow faster and penetrate less (but may start a fraction faster). Shot defective in weight by being under-gauge will have defective velocity, reduced range at which they lose a certain amount of velocity beyond the defect, and reduced penetration. Bulk timber isn't exactly the same as plank over frame, and curvature and angling of the face can result in deficiencies in penetration.... but overall iron shot at 7.4 specific gravity wins against timber at 0.4-1.0 specific gravity under most conditions. Excessive penetration yields a shot path you cannot introduce fingers into, and a fine cloud of splinters which are mostly nuisance only. Correctly tuned penetration (or a lucky hit into thicker timbers) gives larger chunks of timber capable of lethal injury and a ragged hole.

SoL have thin upperworks, and much more solid waterlines. 22" is around a common frigate of the larger sizes at the waterline.

The Vasa 24lb shot testing (with less powerful powder by design) was not resisted by the 18" side at any of the tested velocities (sadly full data and minimum value not given), and only a very low velocity scissor shot lodged in the side.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After fastly reviewing the patch I'd say: $£"&&//("£$£!%$%&/()!! ??

Better expressed: the ideas are good (Wasa higher BR, wood type affecting mast bonuses, review of speed/turning books). In general much appreciable*.

The real choises still are totally out of target IMO.

1. Devs nerfed (aside loodsman and the small -0.5 copper speed) mainly easily obtainable books/mods (like Speed trim - that bring a malus too - and Gazelle; or staysails/square treatises) and not really rare super books/mods. If you nerf Gazelle to 1% (making it almost useless) you should nerf NHR too to 2% for example as a bare minimum.

Are Devs aim to widen the gap between rich vets and new/casual players??? or what?

WHY?

2. FAR WORST, even if almost EVERY SINGLE POSTER SAID "Nerf Wasa Buff Constitution/Agamennon" NOTHING ON THAT SIDE.

Ok. Wasa will be less used in PBs. Still unbeatable in OW PVP. Well done. And Constitution/Agamennon still unusable (almost).

So the question. WHY?

3. Mast thickness from LO (and Caguarian) IS WORTHLESS (5%? kidding?? what is this espected to change in demasting???). May be it helps a bit in 1st rate PBs... still in OW raiding NOTHING CHANGES... granted that NOBODY will ever use LO (damn -9% speed) in PVP being like a suicide.

Again: WHY???

Can a Devs explain the reasoning behind such weird decisions?

Just to understand. I want to think there are sound reasons to act this way I'm too stupid to see.

Explanations would be really appreciated. Thanks in advance.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Banished Privateer said:

In fact, SOLs have super weak boarding mods. All marines, muskets, most of that is pretty much useless for SOLs. Hence why the easiest way to kill the 1st rate is to board it. 

And IMO it's totally counter intuitive.

The bigger the ship, the more free possible space. So the more extra Muskets, Marines, Hammocks SHOULD be able to load in respect of smaller ones.

Personally with game mechanics I have a Niagara with 204 crew - LOL: more than a Cerberus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not a good patch, sorry to say.

Losing turn rate with every patch is getting old. Wasa is still Wasa. I'm not saying nerf it, I'm saying buff the Constitution and make it 5th rate, and do SOMETHING to Agamemnon because it's just about on par with the 3rd Rate in terms of usefulness.

Still no help with the RNG grind of rare modules.

Very counter-intuitive patch, I don't even know why it was put in place. Not trying to be excessively negative, it's just not a great step forward.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Lieste said:

That is what the contemporary (early C19th) experimentations show, and also supports the use of double shot & half charges within musket shot as being entirely valid (until you meet overbuilt Live Oak frigates of course).
Note that shots striking water first may lose some velocity. Shot hitting iron fittings may shatter, or have reduced penetration (while affecting more of the side than only the subcalibre shot path). Shot defective in weight by voids will slow faster and penetrate less (but may start a fraction faster). Shot defective in weight by being under-gauge will have defective velocity, reduced range at which they lose a certain amount of velocity beyond the defect, and reduced penetration. Bulk timber isn't exactly the same as plank over frame, and curvature and angling of the face can result in deficiencies in penetration.... but overall iron shot at 7.4 specific gravity wins against timber at 0.4-1.0 specific gravity under most conditions. Excessive penetration yields a shot path you cannot introduce fingers into, and a fine cloud of splinters which are mostly nuisance only. Correctly tuned penetration (or a lucky hit into thicker timbers) gives larger chunks of timber capable of lethal injury and a ragged hole.

SoL have thin upperworks, and much more solid waterlines. 22" is around a common frigate of the larger sizes at the waterline.

The Vasa 24lb shot testing (with less powerful powder by design) was not resisted by the 18" side at any of the tested velocities (sadly full data and minimum value not given), and only a very low velocity scissor shot lodged in the side.

One of the reasons to use reduced charges was to maximize splinters.

Also as you noted a shot that theoretically should pen sometimes does not - the Cheasapeake v Shannon dual has documentation of this and that was fought at pistol shot range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Shannon was a fir (pitch pine) ship, right? *scratcheshead* 

By the way, my post of the month award goes to...Lieste. Good stuff!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Malachi said:

Shannon was a fir (pitch pine) ship, right? *scratcheshead* 

By the way, my post of the month award goes to...Lieste. Good stuff!

Yeah... even at point blank range I'm amazed at how weak fir was, even before the patch.

I was sailing along in a fir Belle Poule last night, looking for a quick fine. I happened upon an AI Belle Poule and thought I'd sink it for the knowledge slot. Was already half asleep at that point and sidled up alongside to trade double shot. No maneuvers, just 1:1 broadsides.

The bastard sank me. Granted, I was too unmotivated and sleepy to change tactics or disengage, but yeah, fir is wicked fragile.

If we toned down the speed advantage, we wouldn't need such a big durability advantage. Gank-fit boats aren't very fun for anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, maturin said:

If we toned down the speed advantage, we wouldn't need such a big durability advantage.

Yeah, totally agree.

Cheasapeake´s balls must have gone through Shannon's hull like butter, leaving nice and clean holes along the way. Makes you kind of wonder how Leander/Newcastle vs Constitution would have played out.

 

That reminds me of an account I read in James' propaganda pamphlet Naval History a while ago. It was about the fight of La Forte and her squadron against a couple of british ships. One of La Forte's 24s made a hole in the Great Cabin, leaving a guy standing right next to the impact zone almost completely unharmed and went out the other side.

#overpenetration

 

Here´s an example of what Lieste was talking about earlier, the increased dimensions of scantlings etc for fir ships:

8pounder.thumb.png.98d2c8f44887239f630439ad91f07dd2.png

It´s for a danish 125' frigate, left side is fir/pine (except the keel), right side oak. The differences are substantial, ranging from 5 to 15% (taken from the corresponding dimensions table)

Edited by Malachi
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Was it typical for Danish shipbuilders to put support pillars between the guns, instead of on either side of the midships hatches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, maturin said:

Was it typical for Danish shipbuilders to put support pillars between the guns, instead of on either side of the midships hatches?

Must be because of the Danish beer so guns crews had something to lean on while being tipsy ;-)

Edited by z4ys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, z4ys said:

Must be because of the Danish beer so guns crews had something to lean on while being tipsy ;-)

Beer? Pffffft.  Danish sailors, just like their swedish brethren, got Aquavit.

#drunkenvikings

 

9 hours ago, maturin said:

Was it typical for Danish shipbuilders to put support pillars between the guns, instead of on either side of the midships hatches?

The stanchions are on the lower deck, just like on british frigates of the time (they used iron knees on the upper deck, tho).

Or did I misunderstand your question?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Speed trim

Don't think that one was nerfed tho.... iirc it was 3% (6-7), 2% (4-5) and 1% (1-3)... which seems fair, because it actually has a downside that can make the difference.

Edited by Landsman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Landsman said:

Don't think that one was nerfed tho.... iirc it was 3% (6-7), 2% (4-5) and 1% (1-3)... which seems fair, because it actually has a downside that can make the difference.

It was 3% on 4-5 rates.

So good but with TWO downsides.

Again and still, super books are OP and very difficult to obtain for casual/new players. This widen the skill/experience gap... And other weird mechanics (demasting and multi reps) make viable for a vet to fight and win 1v5+.

Is this a good way to get and keep new players?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

It was 3% on 4-5 rates.

Nope, it wasn't. 

You can check here, if you don't believe me. Last edited 2017 and it also still shows AoSH giving 2%, which is now 3%.

Someone else apparently thought aswell, that trim speed 4-5 was nerfed.... I just bought one for 1mil in the shop. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Nope, it wasn't. 

You can check here, if you don't believe me. Last edited 2017 and it also still shows AoSH giving 2%, which is now 3%.

Someone else apparently thought aswell, that trim speed 4-5 was nerfed.... I just bought one for 1mil in the shop. :D

Oook. Probably lost previous nerf.

Still the point stands.

Copper is super rare, AoSH out of target for new/casual player, NHR costs 10 PVP marks (something for sure) ... And what devs nerf to void? Gazelle.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

Gazelle.

Yep, the nerf to Gazelle was very uncalled for. It was already the poor mans bovenwinds...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Yep, the nerf to Gazelle was very uncalled for. It was already the poor mans bovenwinds...

It is even worst.

Gazelle was the only +2% speed usable perm: cotton sail and crooked hull come with dangerous downsides and using bovenwinds is mutually exclusive with French rigging that's, with crappy and un-real demasting mechanics, a must have. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Problem with ships is: still only few are used as a meta - rest are obsolete. Why we got so many nice ships in game but current balance favor only few? 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny thing is, we know the structure, and armor HP of our ships in real time, and that of our enemy.   BUT we dont know what the condition of our own masts are.... hmm...

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×