Introducing PVP separated ranks. Why not?

[victor]

I take this from a discussion in another thread, to highlight the proposal.

Why not introducing a progressive PVP rank (calculated just by means of the number of PVP marks gained through combat) and visible in OS, that enters into the calculations of the numbers of the PVP marks that are awarded in case you sink the player?

I would start at rank O ("hopeless carebear" or "Victor" rank)  - and then when someone kills me he gets just 1 PVP mark no matter which ship I am sailing sail, but - after having gained 20 PVP marks in combat I become rank 1 ("noob") - and then when someone sinks me gets 2 PVP marks, no matter which ship I sail  ... and so on up to the rank "wtfuberpwnzrplayer" that - after 1000 marks - gets the one that is able to sink me 20 marks for  each sinking.

Of course number and names of rank can be different, but the concept is there.

A more sophisticated version could be using a formula to build up an algorithm that takes the PVP rank of the sunk player and the PVP rank of the winning one and modulates the rewards in a way that a lower PVP rank player will earn more PVP marks if he succeeds in sinking a higher PVP rank player, while if a higher PVP rank player sinks a lower PVP rank player, then he gets less PVP marks.

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by victor

[Slim McSauce]

Add this to a navy career system.

[Percival Merewether]

I'm not sure I'm too fond of the idea of 1 PvP mark for sinking someone in a 1st rate doing missions outside the protected area. If I manage to do that in a Cerberus I'd like a proper reward for it.

But I do like the idea of a PvP rank and your suggestion is not unreasonable - it's just a matter of making it work.

[HachiRoku]

nah rewards sealclubbers to much. There is a difference between sealclubbing and competitive pvp. Pvp marks and leaderboards are no way to judge skill. 

[victor]

24 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

nah rewards sealclubbers to much. There is a difference between sealclubbing and competitive pvp. Pvp marks and leaderboards are no way to judge skill. 

read better. The system has the aim to reduce rewards for sealclubbers, since if you have a high PVP rank and you attack a low PVP rank player, you get less PVP marks

[victor]

16 minutes ago, Rickard said:

very cool idea indeed! I would support this idea, but only if some special historical ranks are used and not names like "hopeless carebear" that's just immersion breaking and annoying.

yep, the name was just a placeholder

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, victor said:

read better. The system has the aim to reduce rewards for sealclubbers, since if you have a high PVP rank and you attack a low PVP rank player, you get less PVP marks

you still get marks and it wont work

[victor]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

you still get marks and it wont work

the actual system is far worse, since it does not incetivate PVP skilled people to fight each other.

[HachiRoku]

5 minutes ago, victor said:

the actual system is far worse, since it does not incetivate PVP skilled people to fight each other.

why would you care anyway? you dont even pvp

[victor]

2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

why would you care anyway? you dont even pvp

I do PVP from time to time. And a system that could induce more people to enter PVP should be good for the game too (and for PVPers too).

Stop with your elitism, PVP is not your little club.

Edited January 15, 2018 by victor

[Trino]

It wont work. Maybe it would make a difference if you had the choice between a Noob (almost no reward) and PvP-Pro (high reward), but actually it's pretty hard to find PvP anywhere, so you take what you can get.

I saw this at my beginning few months ago, i was in a Snow travveling on Sea, 4 Ahoy-Pirates hunted me ... i was fast, but they where a bit faster ... So they needed over an hour to get me ... How many Marks they got for my sunk snow?

[Ronald Speirs]

To me this just looks like another system that can be exploited, PvP marks shouldn't even be a thing in game much like trading ports for map win and victory marks, its a poor system that is easily worked around to exploit to their own advantage!

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

nah rewards sealclubbers to much. There is a difference between sealclubbing and competitive pvp. Pvp marks and leaderboards are no way to judge skill. 

We do need a reputation system in game though.  Though I don't think it should be tied to any rewardsi n battle other than maybe a boost to XP/Credits gained for sinking that player in another faction cause of there reputation. Say your a lowly British player and you catch me on a bad day.  I'm French but got a high rep of sinking nothing but British players.  You actually win the fight you get a 10-20% boost to the xp/credits rewards on top of the normal Player kill over AI boost cause of my reputation of killing so many ships of the British nation.   

Reputation system can replace Smuggler Flag too.  You get a high enough reputation with a certain nation trade faction you don't need to smuggle into the port, but on the flip side if you have bad enough reputation evne the smuggler flag won't let you into a port that isn't of your own nation or freetown.  So same example I only sink British Trade ships my French char has a very bad British Trade reputation I can't use any British ports for trade at all.  While you as the British player have never sunk a French trader, in fact sank many players with high bad British French trade rep so your reputation with French traders is that you help them by Privateering the bad guys....so you have a good reputation and can go into french ports with a trade ship and no smuggler flag at all to do trade with them.  The French Navy might still hate you, but the Traders don't.  POTBS kinda had a system like this with there reputation system.

[Liq]

 

[Norfolk nChance]

I like this idea, or reputation type system or even built into the current rank tiers. Unfortunately, each idea comes with its own major setbacks allowing exploits. @Liq post here of @zooloo suggestion sort of solves a lot of issues but complicated to construct in a fleet battle I’d guess.

Think this is Victors idea…

@victor idea I really like with the enemy earning more from the higher your rank. In GB Nation if your Post Captain (rank 7) then the player that sinks you he gets 7 PvP CM. This no matter what ship either of you sail.

Advanced algo would be GB Player Rank 7 say is in a fight with a Rank 9 player. Here I’d assume If Rank 7 player wins he would get 7+2 or 9 points. The maximum the Rank 9 player can get is 7 points if he wins only.

This makes the seal clubbers time very expensive, like wise an unrated ALT that just sails your Trade ships will be less worth while hitting.

 

This then I’d build into the “Career” or current Rank system. To elevate Rank you’ll need “x” amount of XP but also “x” amount of PvP CMs. This creates the Reputation however sidelines the RvR or Care Bear style of players. Getting to RA now should be a hard task and in the PvP world probably should include a PvP element. Probably most may disagree here.

Whatever the system it needs to be a simple mechanic calc. Adding groups and PBs will add a load factor.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, victor said:

the actual system is far worse, since it does not incetivate PVP skilled people to fight each other.

It incentivizes pvpers to go PvP. Skilled pvpers will run into each other constantly. Seals will get clubbed no matter what. 

Because of PvP marks (and horrible money inflation) , PvP in this game has never been so active. 

[victor]

8 minutes ago, Flinch said:

 Seals will get clubbed no matter what. 

 

Point is with a progressive reward system, if a PVP player has very little rewards in sealclubbing and has good skills in fighting he will seek better targets. If a PVP player has not enough skills he will indeed stick to sealclubbing, but at least he will get the mediocre rewards he deserves.

Now you get exaclty the same rewards in killing a noob and in killing a pro ... which one would you prefer fighting?

 

Edited January 15, 2018 by victor

[Farrago]

2 hours ago, victor said:

Point is with a progressive reward system, if a PVP player has very little rewards in sealclubbing and has good skills in fighting he will seek better targets. If a PVP player has not enough skills he will indeed stick to sealclubbing, but at least he will get the mediocre rewards he deserves.

Now you get exaclty the same rewards in killing a noob and in killing a pro ... which one would you prefer fighting?

 

I understand what you're trying to do but worry that simply doing this will tempt some to exploit the mechanic: You kill me now, next battle I'll kill you. The only way to avoid that is if being killed lowers your rank and I think we want to avoid that.

Your solution assumes most players will attempt to obtain the most rewards by giving themselves the greatest challenge. Although I'm a fairly recent returnee to gaming after a 25 year break, I've seen very little evidence that this is how most folks play this game. In reading about the constant use of game mechanics in RVR to avoid combat and competition, I'd say a large portion of the player base does not find competition desirable.

PvP opportunities are rare enough and the need for PvP marks great enough that few of us can afford to pass up the opportunity to kill another player if we think we can be successful.

BUT if your idea was part of a more developed reputation system pehaps it would work. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Farrago

[AeRoTR]

So what needs to be done is, divide current pvp marks into let’s say 4. New pvp mark is 1/4th of the old one.

BR of the ship will give some set pvp mark.

*** BR difference will give some pvp marks.

Pvp Rank difference should give additional pvp mark.

 

So when you sink an LGV (5) of Rookie(3) it will give let’s say 5+3= 8 new Pvp Marks.

But when you sink Endymion (8) of an 1st rate pvp guy (12) = 20 new pvp marks.

So you are a rookie and you are sunk, you managed to make set amount of damage to enemy, every 20 percent 1 pvp mark. You did 40 percent damage, you get 2 pvp marks ?

So this can be improved into a very enjoyable, addicting PVP system. People noob or expert will be more into pvp. Some special inventory chest from the nation you belong, becomes avaliable to you as you progress in Pvp Ranks.

Edited January 17, 2018 by AeRoTR
Added br difference