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In preparation of part 5 (final changes) of the sailing model.


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4 minutes ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

All ships? The Constitution is currently at around  2.5 and short before the rework she was raised to 3.05 turn rate (maybe op). With this exception, yes all ships are turn buffed.

2.9 on Constitution would be ok with me, and not what we have now. I also could never understand why Belle P has defense bonus (curved hull/increased ball bounce) when compared to other ships? Why other ships have nothing similar or mods that could match that defense bonus? 

I feel like there are only few ships in game that are op and only designed for pvp, the rest is just junk. I feel like every ship must be unique or have mods to match others. @admin

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1 minute ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

All ships? The Constitution is currently at around  2.5 and short before the rework she was raised to 3.05 turn rate (maybe op). With this exception, yes all ships are turn buffed.

Turn rates are based on the hull shape, block coefficient, length to width ratio and depth of keel. 
Constitution is narrow has very deep keel and is very long - such stats reduce its turning capabilities compared to other vessels in the similar category 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Turn rates are based on the hull shape, block coefficient, length to width ratio and depth of keel. 
Constitution is narrow has very deep keel and is very long - such stats reduce its turning capabilities compared to other vessels in the similar category 

so the very low turn rate will remain? The ship will become obsolete at its current state. :(

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

Turn rates are based on the hull shape, block coefficient, length to width ratio and depth of keel. 
Constitution is narrow has very deep keel and is very long - such stats reduce its turning capabilities compared to other vessels in the similar category 

Ok so Constitution is junk now, but Belle Poule has OP turn and OP ball bounce defense. How can you compensate for that on Constitution? Can you at least add mods that (add teak planking +5% ricochet -5% stability) or something like that. Mod can't be installed on ships with high curved hulls. Something like that would make sense. Like I said right now there are only 4-5 ships that only worth sailing in pvp that is it. 

Edited by H2O
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6 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

I've only tested the new sailing model for a short while.

Sailing "feels" better and more realistic now imo.
The Balance might be out of whack (I've no clue, haven't tested enough), but it certainly feels better than before. 



 

the sailing is better man but compare connie with other ships :)

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1 minute ago, admin said:

I do not know what you read as we have not said what you wrote. Please avoid presenting your assumptions as our statements - better quote.
 

 

Please admin, i didnt. I clearly started my sentence with "I read it as...", but lets get back on topic. Please elaborate on my question: Why is this good?

You say that wind changes benefit groups with multiple sailing profiles. And you say that several players reported to you that they sail more heavy ships because they cant avoid the fight anyway. So far so good? Now, we know that words are tricky so here is my "interpretation":

First off, me in a tanky 5th rate versus 4 decent players in 4ths and 5ths results in me sinking. Only a squishy fast ship saves my ass. Now some meta thougts: Since wind changes always favor the side with more ships and more sailing profiles available, they always favor the ganker over the ganked. When you say the wind change is good because it leads to more fighting, the only reason for that is because it forces a ganked player to engage and (most probably) sink. I will just *assume* here that you as a dev try to promote good content (fair fights) over bad content (ganking). The tldr is (if my interpretation is correct) that someone who thinks wind changes are good for the gameplay also thinks that ganking is a good way to promote "fighting".

What do you think?

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

the sailing is better man but compare connie with other ships :)

That is what i'm saying babe. I've not tested more than 2 ships so i have no clue if it is balanced or not. But for sure the sailing model just feels much better. 

 

2 minutes ago, Havelock said:

What do you think?

I interpret it same way as you.. 
- My opinion; Small wind changes are great, but wind turning 180 in 10 minutes is ridiculous. (I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.) 

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2 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:


- My opinion; Small wind changes are great, but wind turning 180 in 10 minutes is ridiculous. (I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.) 

it does not turn 180 and never did
it does not turn every 10 mins as well 


 

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

Turn rates are based on the hull shape, block coefficient, length to width ratio and depth of keel. 
Constitution is narrow has very deep keel and is very long - such stats reduce its turning capabilities compared to other vessels in the similar category 

Alright, understand. May it possible to buff her sailing profile in the wind range from +60° to -60° ? I'm no specialist, but in the yacht segment usually long and narrow hulls have some advantages in the upwind sector and with tacking. It may compensate turn rate a little.

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1 minute ago, admin said:

it does not turn 180 and never did
it does not turn every 10 mins as well

admin please...

7 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

(I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.) 

 

Were all giving feedback here, if you dont want to comment on what we say its okay, but these kind of statements make it really hard to have a discussion going. Friendly advice, no ban plez D:

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1 minute ago, Bragan Benigaris said:

Alright, understand. May it possible to buff her sailing profile in the wind range from +60° to -60° ? I'm no specialist, but in the yacht segment usually long and narrow hulls have some advantages in the upwind sector and with tacking. It may compensate turn rate a little.

there could be a mistake in the calc.. we will check the constitution
 

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19 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:


Small wind changes are great, but wind turning 180 in 10 minutes is ridiculous. 

 

19 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:


I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.

 

10 minutes ago, Havelock said:

admin please...

 

Were all giving feedback here, if you dont want to comment on what we say its okay, but these kind of statements make it really hard to have a discussion going. Friendly advice, no ban plez D:

When one post has 2 sentences that completely contradict each other they indeed make it really hard to have a discussion going. 
those two statements cancel each other. they both cant be true
 

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

there could be a mistake in the calc.. we will check the constitution
 

please do, the connie is not just bad atm but is complete garbage. I know its harsh but its true :(

Edited by HachiRoku
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27 minutes ago, H2O said:

Ok so Constitution is junk now, but Belle Poule has OP turn and OP ball bounce defense. How can you compensate for that on Constitution? Can you at least add mods that (add teak planking +5% ricochet -5% stability) or something like that. Mod can't be installed on ships with high curved hulls. Something like that would make sense. Like I said right now there are only 4-5 ships that only worth sailing in pvp that is it. 

I disagree, consti is no junk now. She has a rather high thickness and if you can defend your stern against the lighter and nimbler frigates you could also win. More difficult are the other 4th rates, because her turn rate is subpar but the potentially better sailing profile isn't enough. Maybe with a buff in upwind capabilities, she could compete with the other ones.

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I am not sure why the wind changes direction in battle?  There isnt a lot of cases where that actually happened. 

And if it is because someone cant sail and gets stuck on a sandbar because they were to close to land.... well that is their fault.

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18 minutes ago, admin said:

it does not turn 180 and never did
it does not turn every 10 mins as well 

Admin, you only read half of my comment before answering? Please read again, i highlight last part so you don't miss it..

25 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

- My opinion; Small wind changes are great, but wind turning 180 in 10 minutes is ridiculous. (I know its not 180 in 10 minutes, but it is too extreme now which is my point.) 

(I'm not trying to be a dick here, but you read only half of my comment and then respond...  Hard to have proper discussion when you do that.)

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On 23.1.2018 at 12:18 AM, John Sheppard said:

if you are talking about the little degrees number we see left from the ship icon in the compass then i think you are confusing leeway with heel

No, I don't confuse leeway with heel. I wonder what makes you think I do though. 

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@admin and @Ink

If I understand you correctly you want to have sailing profiles and turn rates of ships as historic as possible (notes on your calculations of % of square as well as staysails / ratio of hull length, width, depth and so on), right!?

But you also want to have all ships to be usefull in game, also right!?

I appreciate both of your intentions!

But I ask you to make usefullness of all ships in game your first priority!

It would be a shame imo if nobody sailed some of these beautifully rendered vessels!

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55 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

I would say that about 50% of the ships in NA are irrelevant or useless.

iNb1Jm.jpg

If your goal is to make every ship useful and usable in combat, you should build the ships all the same. I mean: the majority of players wants a ship that is the fastest and the most powerful armed. Plus it shuold be also very, very thick and will forgive mistakes. That’s is sadly a truth in every PvP game i saw and played: all want the best and nothing less. Generally speaking, ppl don’t understand that Task Forces was made by several types of ships, and every ship plays a specific role within, for exemple the big, slow and powerful ships were intended as a floater tank, but due to their slowness, they had to be protected by the fast ships in the Task Force. 

But until players want to play as a lone wolf, of course they want an all-pourpose ship, powerful enough to survive a big battle and win. Win. Win. ;)

So, IMO the problem is in “uneducated” players to play together as a Task Force, and of course they ask for perks and so on to be the best ship.

That’s IMO is the reason why i see a lot of all the same ships ingame, and it changes as you Devs changes something. 

Edited by blubasso
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21 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

@admin and @Ink

If I understand you correctly you want to have sailing profiles and turn rates of ships as historic as possible (notes on your calculations of % of square as well as staysails / ratio of hull length, width, depth and so on), right!?

But you also want to have all ships to be usefull in game, also right!?

I appreciate both of your intentions!

But I ask you to make usefullness of all ships in game your first priority!

It would be a shame imo if nobody sailed some of these beautifully rendered vessels!

You will need 1000 ships to make historically correct thing work. With few ships that NA has it's impossible to make every ship sail as real one. You need to compensate by adding bonuses to each ship. Make them unique. Otherwise we always will have what we have today - Players pick only the best few ships and ignore the rest. Why did you spend money modeling those ships if they are never used? 

Example:

Essex (Bonus reload, Bonus Crew)

Constitution (Bonus Turn at Close haul ranges or bonus stern armor)

Wasa (Faster Crew Recovery)

etc... you know what I mean @admin

Small bonuses on all or some ships can compensate for their disability in some areas and make them unique or better. Such bonuses could be tied up to some content. ex. open bonus slot by doing so and so. I don't understand why it's so difficult?

Edited by H2O
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36 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

Admin, you only read half of my comment before answering? Please read again, i highlight last part so you don't miss it..

(I'm not trying to be a dick here, but you read only half of my comment and then respond...  Hard to have proper discussion when you do that.)

You have been around long enough to know he tends to do that when backed into a corner.

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