In preparation of part 5 (final changes) of the sailing model.

[Navalus Magnus]

8 minutes ago, DesMoines said:

 

1- Wind....

Good work on this subject guys. But one BIG mistake is Storm in battle... I have ever say it was incredible before OW....i say ever the same thing..When it will be return? (Simulation Game) In add of visual effect it s a possibility for a ship to escape in the fog and agitated sea....really really schame it s delete atm

 

Although i can’t say that I completely understood what you’re saying and it seems a bit off topic to me:

If you vote for storms in battle to come back (with a low rate of occurance) you‘re my hero of the day! 😊

[Moscalb]

21 minutes ago, Amihai said:

Непись. На ней невозможно тренироваться, ибо она крутит так, как среднестатистический игрок без зафита на ускорение и маневр не может. Это не мое мнение, это мнение тру-пвпшеров из рублей.

 

Дело не только в повороте неписи но и в целом в поведении..... Еще раз скажу то что говорили 100 раз - нужно тренироваться ПвП в ПвП)

 

21 minutes ago, Amihai said:

Наблюдать, как корабль прет почти не снижая скорости имея ПОПЕРЕК НОСА другой корабль, пусть и меньший по массе, по меньшей мере странно в игре, жертвующей геймплеем в пользу аутентичности. Абордаж имхо должен быть возможен и на более высоких скоростях, если скорости согласованы и расстояние позволяет.

такое...)  Просто вспомнить пару последних крупных битв, например с Редсами, и становится понятно, что бафать возможность абордажа точно не стоит. Так как избежать абордажа когда тебя толкают с носа против ветра нереально сложно, а если еще и с кормы помогут то GG:)

Переменный ветер в бою это вообще шняга полная. Ну зачем в скилловую пвп игру добавлять рулетку? 

Убирать не стоит ) Как по мне это прикольно, что он меняется. Но понерфить думаю надо. Так как действительно он меняется очень спонтанно и не предсказуемо. Быть может стоит сделать, что то типо 2 оборота ветра за 1:30:00 боя. Что бы можно было предугадать что произойдет с ветром и от этого строить тактики.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Moscalb

[Navalus Magnus]

@admin

Why „In preparation of part 5 ...“?

Did I miss the 4th part of the sailing patch?

[vazco]

Regarding wind in PB - I think the amount of change into a given direction could change randomly, so that it's eg:

15% change - 10% chance

30% change - 15% chance

45% change - 40% chance

60% change - 15% chance

75% change - 10% chance

90% change - 10% chance

This way it's more random, yet still it's worth to fight for the wind.

 

[Navalus Magnus]

1 minute ago, DesMoines said:

Low rate???

Yeah, I think as devs tried out to have storms in battles they happend quite too often. And therefore many people started complaining about it.

4 minutes ago, DesMoines said:

I m a hero everyday ^^

I‘m glad for you mate! 🙂

[H2O]

21 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Yeah, I think as devs tried out to have storms in battles they happened quite too often. And therefore many people started complaining about it.

so they removed it instead of adjusting it? kek

Edited January 15, 2018 by H2O

[Navalus Magnus]

23 minutes ago, H2O said:

so they removed it instead of adjusting it? kek

Yes, look into the storm / big waves threads in the categories „suggestions“ and „generall discussions“.

The discussion there explains a few things!

Edited January 15, 2018 by Navalus Magnus

[Navalus Magnus]

5 minutes ago, DesMoines said:

And if we ask them ..Fog and small waves a little bigger than very very small waves?

Yeah, lets keep asking for storms!

... but in a different thread i‘d suggest!

[VirtuallyIdiotic]

15 hours ago, admin said:

Captains .Please review and suggest improvements to

1. wind changes
2. heel
3. leeway (sideforce) and ship differences
4. general turnrates (using rudder or yards or both)
5. speed curves and ship difference
6. tacking time
7. downwind turning time

Feel free to propose buffs or debuffs if necessary

I have a few suggestions concerning mostly other mechanics but one or two concerning wind and buffs/debuffs

1. Wasa as great of a ship it is needs something to be done to it to balance out its use. Right now for a fourth rate ship it out classes the majority of its fellow fourth class ships in almost every aspect and even if it does not out match an aspect such as speed or firepower of another fourth rate the wasa out matches that said fourth rate in all the other aspects. Not to mention it does need an adjustment to its battle rating. In port battles since there is only a slight difference between the Bellona, let's say, and the Wasa that people will choose the Wasa for its lower battle rating.

2. When going against the wind in open world it has become a struggle hitting 4 kn to even want to be traveling. It significantly increases the time you are out there in open waters just waiting for the wind to turn ever so slightly. Maybe just a few more knots would be alright in open world. In battles I am okay with it. So far I been loving the wind mechanics and feel like they are a breath of fresh breeze. 

3. Victory Marks. I play as Poland and going up against other nations such as Pirates and Great Britain you see a significant difference in the use of first rates. I personally do not think the permits and blueprints should be worth a victory mark but rather PvP Marks. Granted maybe make the instantly built ships worth an increased amount of Victory Marks and make the Wasa a craftable ship. Maybe make those Navy upgrades worth a victory mark with slight changes to the upgrades for instance but nothing significant to make them absolutely outstanding.

4. Port Battle Timers. I love the concept so please do not remove it. My suggestion though is increase the windows of time for setting up the port battles and for the port battles themselves. Possibly letting other people from different timezone participate in the grind and port battle itself because right now the timers either decide if an attacker can go after a certain port or if they just cannot attack it because that set time is out of their availability to play. Maybe because of work, sleep, school, or other real life responsibilities. So possibly broadening the port battle windows time frame might help alleviate some of those issues.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Davos Seasworth

[H2O]

I think creative part of this forum is not active anymore. I see same request from the same people over and over again. Nerf Wasa , fix timers ,remove marks... etc.

[Stepp636]

6 minutes ago, H2O said:

I think creative part of this forum is not active anymore. I see same request from the same people over and over again. Nerf Wasa , fix timers ,remove marks... etc.

We don't need creative ideas

We need to fix the current problems first. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Stepp636

[vazco]

7 minutes ago, H2O said:

I think creative part of this forum is not active anymore. I see same request from the same people over and over again. Nerf Wasa , fix timers ,remove marks... etc.

It's probably because people don't invent problems, just report existing ones. I guess that's a really useful feedback  

[H2O]

8 hours ago, admin said:

1. speed curves and ship difference

As for ship curves I don't know because I don't know where to look for them from official source. 

As for ship difference we need at least 3 types for each ship with significant bonuses:

-Regular - Default specs across all types of ships no bonuses. (CHEAP MAN OPTION)

-Naval Issue - Boosted specs in Reload, Armor and penetration. (TANK)

-Sleek Hull Build - Boosted Speed and Sailing characteristics, no bonuses to armor, reload or penetration. (SKIRM)

Now starting players can start with default ships, it's fine, but as they progress they can aim towards ships that fit their play style. If they play in heavy groups they can go with Naval Issue ships that are tougher and produce heavier punch, but are not maneuverable. They can also pick Sleek Hull build for maneuver and lack of firepover, but in large groups they can still be deadly. 

This would bring more colors to this game for sure. Also, Constitution is ruined. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by H2O

[H2O]

8 minutes ago, vazco said:

It's probably because people don't invent problems, just report existing ones. I guess that's a really useful feedback  

Since Wasa was added and they keep reporting it, something must be really broken here. It has been a long time since. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by H2O

[Jorge]

To all those who ask the nerf to the thickness of the masts and the hull of the line ships it is seen that they want to sink or capture more powerful ships with the much cheaper frigates. While it can already be done, considering that any type of frigate far exceeds the maneuverability of a line ship, what do you expect? What do these big ships stop using?

It is true that NA is not a pure simulator, but what can not be is an arcade. In real life not a single frigate would come close to fighting a ship of line because of a single broadside would send it to the bottom.

Everything that has been said in this thread can be improved, but please do it with a head.

Edited: If you nerf SoLs, you must nerf frigates too. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by Jorge

[Malachi]

3 minutes ago, Jorge said:

In real life not a single frigate would come close to fighting a ship of line because of a single broadside would send it to the bottom.

Not true. 

[Demsity]

42 minutes ago, Davos Seasworth said:

2. When going against the wind in open world it has become a struggle hitting 4 kn to even want to be traveling. It significantly increases the time you are out there in open waters just waiting for the wind to turn ever so slightly. Maybe just a few more knots would be alright in open world. In battles I am okay with it. So far I been loving the wind mechanics and feel like they are a breath of fresh breeze. 

Yes please

[H2O]

7 hours ago, EliteDelta said:

Constitution - Painful to sail. It has serious trouble dueling other 4th rates in terms of maneuverability, and doesn't stand a chance vs. most 5th rates. I think it needs a buff to turning, could be rudder, yards, or a mix of both. The profile and speed are fine, it just needs help with turning. 

Indefatigable - A good ship overall, but it is completely ruined by the strangely weak rudder. The rudder health isn't different from other 5th rates, but there is something incredibly bad about the rudder placement or hitbox. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but if you ever get stern raked, the rudder breaks. It is without a doubt the worst ship I have every sailed in terms of rudder health. I realize there are mods to help buff the rudder health, but they don't fix the problem. I have tested them. I think it is just too easy to hit the rudder when stern raking, and if this were adjusted, the indefatigable could actually become a useful ship in PvP again. 
Side note: Strangely, the Agamemnon does not seem to suffer from the same weak rudder, in my experience. 

Belle Poule - Needs a small turn rate nerf, I think. It is strange that it has a turn rate on par with the surprise, even though the BP is much longer. At the moment this very high turn rate is making the BP somewhat OP against similar ships, because the ability to angle, especially with the strong armour, makes it an exceptionally powerful 5th rate. I have a feeling many other hunters will not like me for saying this, but it is needed, in my opinion.
Base turn rate for BP is 4.23 (I think it should be closer to 3.5)
Base turn rate for Surprise is 4.11

That's all for now, I may think of more later. 

 

 

From this we can come up with a conclusion that Turn Rates on all ships are broken and they need to be increased to return that Fun feeling. I think boosting 1-2 ships will not change anything. I really liked 1st patch when new sailing was introduced, all the changes after that destroyed that fun sailing part for me.

Once again, if ships had passive bonuses on each ship turn rates would not be that big of a problem .

Edited January 15, 2018 by H2O

[Jorge]

1 minute ago, Malachi said:

Not true. 

Please Give an example

[Malachi]

from the top of my head: Randolph vs.Yarmouth, La Forte plus four other frigates vs two British 74s, Venus vs Rättisvan, Venus plus a 74 vs a turkish threedecker

[Gav]

1. wind changes
2. heel
3. leeway (sideforce) and ship differences
4. general turnrates (using rudder or yards or both)
5. speed curves and ship difference
6. tacking time
7. downwind turning time

1, Variable wind speed and weather both in open world and in battles would be my wish. - As regards the wind changing in port battles i think it's a nice tactical addition. I would however suggest that it doesn't just rotate in direction but varies side to side with a 50% chance? So a northern wind can become either a westerly or easterly wind over a given time.

2, 3 5, - Both the heeling and leeway additions that i've noticed since returning to the game are really nice. Love the more natural feel of the ships and the difference between them. One thing i do find strange though is the fact that some of the larger vessels can overtake or at least keep up with the light 6th and 7th rates. Not sure if it was like this in real life but it feels odd in game not being able to get away from a Endyimion in a 6th rate square rigged ship.

All other changes i thought were fine or didnt notice due to being away from the game for so long.

Crosbie
 

[z4ys]

2 hours ago, rediii said:

thats still the case in my oppinion. Its maybe even worse now since you turn less fast with less crew

No it is not. I did a fight with Hachi (trinc) vs me (Santi). He was able to tag me from any position he wanted.  So ofc i head no weather gauge. Ofc The way to succes depends on the captains you are facing but the rule of thumb is:

• Gain weather gauge at all cost
• Use Chain (its much more effective especially when no time to mast snipe)
• get some space between you and the enemy
• now either outrun and sail away (leave battle) or keep weather gauge  and pound his hull from distance.

The biggest mistake you do is by getting cocky and try to hunt him down (going close) when the enemy is low on health especially when you give up weather gauge. That really can flip the tide of the battle.

[SS Minnow]

Why are there 2 different API terms for yard turn speed?

 SHIP_TURNING_SPEED_RHEAS is used for Bovenwinds Refit.

RHEA_TURN_SPEED used for all the other modules.

Is the bovenwinds not giving the yard turn bonus?

[Tiedemann]

Wind changes
Please slow down the how fast the wind turns to 1/3 of the current speed.
Suggestion: I would personally like to test random wind change. The way it works now is to predictable. So for example we could get from 0 to 3 wind changes during a 1,5 hour long battle. When the wind changes should be random, what direction it changes to should be random and in which direction it turns should also be random. Should make chasing players down/ or upwind interesting when the wind could all of a sudden do a 180 turn  

General turnrates (using rudder or yards or both)
Buff St Pavel turn rate. I think it should match the Bellona's stats (it has no chasers so it needs something and it has a long water line, so the Bellona should be able to out turn it in battle)

Speed curves and ship difference
Would like to separate the Bucentaure and St Pavel more. St Pavel should be faster and have a better overall sailing curve than the Bucentaure. If they are to similar I'm forced to chose the Bucentaure 10 out of 10 times because of the better broadside weight.

Feel free to propose buffs or debuffs if necessary
Please nerf the Wasa's. Reduce it's speed curve overall and increase it's BR so it is closer to the 3. rate, rather than the other 4. rate's.

[Jorge]

39 minutes ago, Malachi said:

from the top of my head: Randolph vs.Yarmouth, La Forte plus four other frigates vs two British 74s, Venus vs Rättisvan, Venus plus a 74 vs a turkish threedecker

3 in 200 years... Awesome.