Battles should not close

[GrubbyZebra]

1 minute ago, Pada said:

And how do you want to fight people? Do you just want to trade and craft and forget about the combat?

You fight them in OW! It's not a hard concept.

[Pada]

Just now, BPHick said:

You fight them in OW! It's not a hard concept.

Aha you mean the entire open world is one big battle. Okay good luck in finding a server that can run that shit.
Why do you think battles are limited to 50 players max? Do you know how many cannon balls are calculated in a battle with 50 players? If there where more players the server would most likely crash. Now imagine a battle with 500 players or a 1000. I think we have to wait some more years until this is possible.

[HachiRoku]

irl you couldnt call for help in nation chat or ts. This is a bad idea

[Vernon Merrill]

 

[GrubbyZebra]

3 hours ago, Pada said:

Aha you mean the entire open world is one big battle. Okay good luck in finding a server that can run that shit.
Why do you think battles are limited to 50 players max? Do you know how many cannon balls are calculated in a battle with 50 players? If there where more players the server would most likely crash. Now imagine a battle with 500 players or a 1000. I think we have to wait some more years until this is possible.

You do know there are games that do this, right? And they have no problem whatsoever? Because some things, like cannon ball trajectories and ship locations can be calculated client-side and then sent to the server for rebroadcast.

[GrubbyZebra]

23 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

 

Never said it was an original idea.

Most of the objections raised in that thread deal with people TPing in, which I think I've addressed in this one.

As for the "we had it before" argument, again I see it stated, but not supported.

Also, some of the problems with the short timer and invisible battles are also mentioned there by people against the idea here, which I find interesting.

[GrubbyZebra]

2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

irl you couldnt call for help in nation chat or ts. This is a bad idea

It is a game, after all. Take away the f11 coords dramatically reduces the effectiveness of calling for reinforcements from half a map away.

[jodgi]

6 hours ago, BPHick said:

Literally all of this happens under the current system, except the big battles. Therefore, the premise that it happened before and using that to conclude the current system is better is flawed logic.

Ok, if you say so.

[GrubbyZebra]

4 hours ago, jodgi said:

Ok, if you say so.

I watch the danes do it daily outside willemstad. I watch players doing it around aves and la mona and the small islands in the east. You can act incredulous if you wish, but it doesn't mean players don't use these tactics.

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, BPHick said:

doesn't mean players don't use these tactics.

I never meant to imply shit isn't going down as is. I'm simply saying it's even worse with always open battles.

[Tomms123]

What?

 

No, this has been debated tons and tons of times. This doesn't even work with land in battles, why does it not work?

I will tell you, If land in battles shall remain (which it will, you got a bigger chance to be the first man on Pluto than GL removing land in battles) you can't put an offset on the spawn as this can and will cause spawns inside the land. If you now think "Hey just make it impossible to spawn inside land then" well here is the crux with that, the most normal way to do this in the game industry is to put a hitbox which lets the engine know "I cant put stuff here". This drains power which you want to be focused on the battle aspect to calculate trajectories etc.

Now you might say "Just calculate it from x,y,z,c,v,b,n positions of the land", well that will once again drain the power from other key aspects which are needed for the battle.

 

 

And this short argumentation that you don't want battle instances and put in fights on the OW won't work with the current engine and the idea to put the calculations on the client side opens up a road to a bunch of more problems like cheating which you don't want and that is why you put calculations on a server which is then private for the code and cant be changed by the players communication.

 

Summary of this is that the short answer is no, longer answer is it wont work.

 

[GrubbyZebra]

7 hours ago, Tomms123 said:

What?

 

No, this has been debated tons and tons of times. This doesn't even work with land in battles, why does it not work?

I will tell you, If land in battles shall remain (which it will, you got a bigger chance to be the first man on Pluto than GL removing land in battles) you can't put an offset on the spawn as this can and will cause spawns inside the land. If you now think "Hey just make it impossible to spawn inside land then" well here is the crux with that, the most normal way to do this in the game industry is to put a hitbox which lets the engine know "I cant put stuff here". This drains power which you want to be focused on the battle aspect to calculate trajectories etc.

Now you might say "Just calculate it from x,y,z,c,v,b,n positions of the land", well that will once again drain the power from other key aspects which are needed for the battle.

 

 

And this short argumentation that you don't want battle instances and put in fights on the OW won't work with the current engine and the idea to put the calculations on the client side opens up a road to a bunch of more problems like cheating which you don't want and that is why you put calculations on a server which is then private for the code and cant be changed by the players communication.

 

Summary of this is that the short answer is no, longer answer is it wont work.

 

What? First, I know OW battles won't work. I am not asking for them. I just prefer them to instanced battles in OW games.

Second, where did all this talk of spawning inside land come from? It doesn't even make sense.

[Odol]

On 1/14/2018 at 2:48 PM, BPHick said:

um, what? 

More like sailing along, you see a ship from your nation in battle and sail over to help at 10 kts or whatever, just like irl.

The f11 coords will likely disappear at some point, so no GPS. The chat is a gameplay consideration, and not a game killer anyway. 

You do realize that 10knts OW is about 40knots in battle right?

OW speeds are 2x faster than battle speeds, AND the map is HALF scale to Battle Scale.   So you effectively are getting a 4x speed jump. 

Here is an example for you.

A Trader Brig sails out of La Navas at 0815 heading north west to George Town.   A Pirate jumps out in a Belle Poole 20min later, and catches him 40min after that, so at 915 the battle starts.  The T-Brig screems for help in national chat, and a Victory and a Surprise jump out of Kingston at 930, then sail around the cape, head north to where the battle is, and arrives at 1845, they then jump into the battle spawning damned near on top of the Belle Poole pirate who had an easy prey.   Because for the Pirate and the Trade ship it has only been 20min real life in battle. 

Hmm... I dont know what the average sortie time for a 5th rate was back in the 19th century, but I am pretty sure it wasnt instant sail from port.  And the average pirate encounter with a merchant ship was less than 30min in game, and less than 60 min in real life.  

So how is it fair, plausible or even realistic, that a ship is magically caught up to even though that battle would have been concluded by the time anyone got there to help.   Fact is if you cant see the start of the battle, you should not be able to enter the battle.   And you should load in on the edge of the map from the direction you were sailing from. 

 

If you want escorts, have someone escort you and stay within tag range the WHOLE time, this is how escorts worked, and how they STILL work.  

 

 

 

 

[Hethwill]

75x

[GrubbyZebra]

43 minutes ago, Odol said:

You do realize that 10knts OW is about 40knots in battle right?

OW speeds are 2x faster than battle speeds, AND the map is HALF scale to Battle Scale.   So you effectively are getting a 4x speed jump. 

Here is an example for you.

A Trader Brig sails out of La Navas at 0815 heading north west to George Town.   A Pirate jumps out in a Belle Poole 20min later, and catches him 40min after that, so at 915 the battle starts.  The T-Brig screems for help in national chat, and a Victory and a Surprise jump out of Kingston at 930, then sail around the cape, head north to where the battle is, and arrives at 1845, they then jump into the battle spawning damned near on top of the Belle Poole pirate who had an easy prey.   Because for the Pirate and the Trade ship it has only been 20min real life in battle. 

Hmm... I dont know what the average sortie time for a 5th rate was back in the 19th century, but I am pretty sure it wasnt instant sail from port.  And the average pirate encounter with a merchant ship was less than 30min in game, and less than 60 min in real life.  

So how is it fair, plausible or even realistic, that a ship is magically caught up to even though that battle would have been concluded by the time anyone got there to help.   Fact is if you cant see the start of the battle, you should not be able to enter the battle.   And you should load in on the edge of the map from the direction you were sailing from. 

 

If you want escorts, have someone escort you and stay within tag range the WHOLE time, this is how escorts worked, and how they STILL work.  

 

 

 

 

The speed in the instance itself is 1x. It would be blind luck to spawn in to the middle of the fighting.

[Odol]

5 minutes ago, BPHick said:

The speed in the instance itself is 1x. It would be blind luck to spawn in to the middle of the fighting.

And outside is 4X.... so how does that match up?  I know before you used to just tag someone to stop them, while your heavy hitters caught up to the battle and joined.  You could keep this up till server reset if you wanted to.   It was horribly abused and will be abused again.  If you think the PB timers are bad, just wait if they add that back you will rage quit in a matter of days because of the abuse that will bring.  

1 or 2 Prince used as a tagger, and 4 Wasa as the hammer.   Yeah.. that sounds like a good current meta to bring anything down. 

The Prince could be well out of sight of the Wasa ships, and still slow down ANYTHING on the OW by just tagging it and drawing it into battle, then sitting at max range and hitting it every 60sec with a single shot to keep it there, till the Wasa fleet arrives. 

If it is a bad entry for the Wasa, and they are to far away, they just leave first and wait for the pray to get out... then the prince RE-Tags it and they get into BETTER position to hit it again. 

 

Yeah fun... no not really.

[Farrago]

1 hour ago, Odol said:

Here is an example for you.

A Trader Brig sails out of La Navas at 0815 heading north west to George Town.   A Pirate jumps out in a Belle Poole 20min later, and catches him 40min after that, so at 915 the battle starts.  The T-Brig screems for help in national chat, and a Victory and a Surprise jump out of Kingston at 930, then sail around the cape, head north to where the battle is, and arrives at 1845, they then jump into the battle spawning damned near on top of the Belle Poole pirate who had an easy prey.   Because for the Pirate and the Trade ship it has only been 20min real life

[snip]

If you want escorts, have someone escort you and stay within tag range the WHOLE time, this is how escorts worked, and how they STILL work.

We're not anywhere near "real life" in this game.

And I'm not looking for help for the Trader Brig in your example. Reinforcements from KPR will not be able to save him 20 minutes later. They'll spawn nowhere near him.

BUT in a game with low population and interesting PVP between multiple ships difficult to find, I want those KPR reinforcements to run in to the sortied ships from Mortimer who have all set sail to join the action.

Keeping battles open does not necessarily save the weak or help the ganker. Additional players can join on both sides.

[Odol]

Just now, Farrago said:

We're not anywhere near "real life" in this game.

And I'm not looking for help for the Trader Brig in your example. Reinforcements from KPR will not be able to save him 20 minutes later. They'll spawn nowhere near him.

BUT in a game with low population and interesting PVP between multiple ships difficult to find, I want those KPR reinforcements to run in to the sortied ships from Mortimer who have all set sail to join the action.

Keeping battles open does not necessarily save the weak or help the ganker. Additional players can join on both sides.

No but it leads to the my above statement... of tag griefing.

[Hethwill]

28 minutes ago, Odol said:

And outside is 4X.

75x

[Cmdr RideZ]

Signaling Perk for all

[Farrago]

12 minutes ago, Odol said:

No but it leads to the my above statement... of tag griefing.

I do see how this would be a pain.

Perhaps there needs to be a higher threshold of damage caused to be considered a tag in battle  

[Odol]

4 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

75x

Thank you...

75x that of Battle speed. 

[Hethwill]

Just now, Odol said:

Thank you...

75x that of Battle speed. 

Can be even be more iirc but not under. You can chronometer it in a short run even, for example from La Tortue to Port de Paix. Sail in OW. Then do it in a battle.