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Sunleader

Pls do Something about Idiotic NPC Ship behavior.

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Seriously.

NPCs have always been Incredible Intent on constantly Sailing Straight with their Face into the Wind.

For whatever reason they really Love to do just Turn away and Drive Straight against the Wind rather than trying any actual Maneuvers.

And while the Breakdancing Ships are Funny for the First Few Engagements.

When you have it constantly it becomes incredible Annoying.

 

Seriously by Now most of my Engagements look like this.

E418A618D3CF36D865780B48288ACE8E5CC5ABFD

I am doing Broadside Battles with Enemy Lineships while both of us are Sailing Backwards at 4 Knots....

And this happens all the Time. Because the Moment I attempt to go Broadside with an Enemy Ship with the Wind blowing from behind. The NPC will after short time just Break out and Immediately Go Full Facepalm Mode against the Wind again....

 

 

I understand that its Importand to Break Broadside Engagements if the Enemy has an Superior Ship. But could we please Teach NPCs some Proper Sailing Maneuvers of how to do that WITHOUT Facepalming into the Wind and Breakdancing with the Ship in Reverse Mode ?????

I mean seriously. There is alot of Naval Maneuvers available that should work for this and which NPCs could Pull off without Driving their Face straight into the Wind.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Seriously.

NPCs have always been Incredible Intent on constantly Sailing Straight with their Face into the Wind.

For whatever reason they really Love to do just Turn away and Drive Straight against the Wind rather than trying any actual Maneuvers.

And while the Breakdancing Ships are Funny for the First Few Engagements.

When you have it constantly it becomes incredible Annoying.

 

Seriously by Now most of my Engagements look like this.

E418A618D3CF36D865780B48288ACE8E5CC5ABFD

I am doing Broadside Battles with Enemy Lineships while both of us are Sailing Backwards at 4 Knots....

And this happens all the Time. Because the Moment I attempt to go Broadside with an Enemy Ship with the Wind blowing from behind. The NPC will after short time just Break out and Immediately Go Full Facepalm Mode against the Wind again....

 

 

I understand that its Importand to Break Broadside Engagements if the Enemy has an Superior Ship. But could we please Teach NPCs some Proper Sailing Maneuvers of how to do that WITHOUT Facepalming into the Wind and Breakdancing with the Ship in Reverse Mode ?????

I mean seriously. There is alot of Naval Maneuvers available that should work for this and which NPCs could Pull off without Driving their Face straight into the Wind.

Maybe you should go try some PvP? Most players don't suffer from the same deficiencies and you might find some challenge...  Newbs need idiotic AI or at the very least it needs to scale.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

Maybe you should go try some PvP? Most players don't suffer from the same deficiencies and you might find some challenge...  Newbs need idiotic AI or at the very least it needs to scale.

While i agree with you for the most part, most people who pvp are fitted out with many if not all of the elite books/mods. Im absolutely sick as hello kitty of farming ow ai for ingredients for these skill books and mods but unless i missed something huge there isnt a way around that grind for newer and returning players (if there is ffs tell me). Not to mention ship knowledge. And you absolutely need to be geared up for rvr these days.

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11 minutes ago, Potemkin said:

While i agree with you for the most part, most people who pvp are fitted out with many if not all of the elite books/mods. Im absolutely sick as hello kitty of farming ow ai for ingredients for these skill books and mods but unless i missed something huge there isnt a way around that grind for newer and returning players (if there is ffs tell me). Not to mention ship knowledge. And you absolutely need to be geared up for rvr these days.

It's interesting. I agree that the drive to get these elite books and mods is all consuming for a lot of people, and I would scream over and over that the RNG desire for the books and ingredients for the mods is counterproductive for the game as a whole, but the actual impact of these "elite" mods is actually pretty minimal, but the problem is that it reinforces who's already "winning." If you have Art of Ship Handling or Book of the Five Rings, or let's say mods derived from PvP marks, etc. it's basically like adding an extra slot on top of your permanent mods or skill books and the reality is that any of these advantages is essentially nullified by the addition of a fleet ship or an extra person in your hunting fleet.

I'd argue that this is consequential in 1v1 PvP.  Having these lottery-based items is important in certain contexts. And I'd fully agree that taking the RNG Jesus out of the game is the way to go. But in the big scheme of things, it's also a motivating factor. Without something to strive for that's rare or hard to get, some people won't be motivated to play the game...

Sooo, what do you do as a game developer?  My solution is to make two skill trees, one for the crafter and one for the sailor. Make specialization important and tied to experience and activity in the game and not to RNG. Crafters with the skills and the time craft all possible permanent mods into specialized ship fits (and each permanent mod should come with tradeoffs, bonus balanced with malus).  Sailors should have a skill tree as well that is not as malleable as it is at the moment, or at least not as RNG-based. If you put in the effort/time then you should be able to advance in the skills that your play style needs.

The RNG rewards should be limited to things that any one can attain and that are not game changing (e.g. paints, resources, materials, etc.). Sure, make them akin to winning the lottery, but don't make the game such that winning begets winning. 

It's the little guys that should be getting better faster, it's the losers of the battle that should be getting rewards at a faster rate than the winners, to encourage them to come back and lose again (in order to get better), otherwise all you'll have at the end of the day is a bunch of salty "winners" with no one to play against.

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Sail downwind and see what happen. If you fight for the wind AI gets stuck.

AI works like that: have to get weather gauge, have to shoot, have to get weather gauge, have to shoot....

You can even do realistic battles like pounding nonstop.

Here an example:

 

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

The RNG rewards should be limited to things that any one can attain and that are not game changing (e.g. paints, resources, materials, etc.). Sure, make them akin to winning the lottery, but don't make the game such that winning begets winning. 

It's the little guys that should be getting better faster, it's the losers of the battle that should be getting rewards at a faster rate than the winners, to encourage them to come back and lose again (in order to get better), otherwise all you'll have at the end of the day is a bunch of salty "winners" with no one to play against.

Well said!

I completely agree!

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Is there no place in which no pvp discussions are conducted? The AI is part of the game. If you do not want it on the PVP server, then at least on the PVE server.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
And I agree with the thread opener, the behavior of the AI, as described, is really idiotic and sweep off a lot of fun and immersion in that game, actually.
 
 
 
Edited by Holm Hansen
hotfix for spelling and grammar
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@Holm Hansen

Yeah, sorry, my first comment might be a bit off topic.

Back to the opening post:

@admin

This getting stuck in irons AND bouncing up and down of AI is a bug which needs to be fixed!

AI should also be smart enough imo to avoid going aground!

Edited by Navalus Magnus
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4 hours ago, Potemkin said:

While i agree with you for the most part, most people who pvp are fitted out with many if not all of the elite books/mods. Im absolutely sick as hello kitty of farming ow ai for ingredients for these skill books and mods but unless i missed something huge there isnt a way around that grind for newer and returning players (if there is ffs tell me). Not to mention ship knowledge. And you absolutely need to be geared up for rvr these days.

 

NPCs are Part of the Game. And thus Should be Expected to Work.

Pls keep the PvP Discussions in the Appropriate Topics for that.

 

3 hours ago, z4ys said:

Sail downwind and see what happen. If you fight for the wind AI gets stuck.

AI works like that: have to get weather gauge, have to shoot, have to get weather gauge, have to shoot....

You can even do realistic battles like pounding nonstop.

Here an example:

 

Your Video aint Surprising Mate.

Because currently NPCs have in Essence 2 Behavior Patterns.

1st. If they got a Bigger Ship (More Crew) than you. They will Sail Straight Broadside with you while attempting to creep closer and then turn into you to Board.

2nd. If they got a Smaller Ship (Less Crew) than you. They will on First Chance Break off from a Broadside Battle with you Facepalming right into the Wind....

 

I know that this behavior can be abused super easily to make the AI do exactly what you want.

But thats exactly the Complaint here.

 

1 hour ago, Holm Hansen said:
Is there no place in which no pvp discussions are conducted? The KI is part of the game. If you do not want it on the PVP server, then at least on the PVE server.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
And I agree with the thread opener, the behavior of the KI, as described, is really idiotic and sweep off a lot of fun and immersion in that game, actually.
 
 
 

 

54 minutes ago, Navalus Magnus said:

@Holm Hansen

Yeah, sorry, my first comment might be a bit off topic.

Back to the opening post:

@admin

This getting stuck in irons AND bouncing up and down of AI is a bug which needs to be fixed!

AI should also be smart enough imo to avoid going aground!

 

I dont know if its a Bug. But the Behavior is very Annoying and gets extremely stale very fast if the AI does it constantly.

Its almost always the same pattern in the Fight.

If the Enemy Ship has less Crew than me. I will Pass him, Rake his Stern knowing he will turn away anyways. And after Raking his Stern I will Follow after him and Nosedive into the Irons so I can leisurely Broadside the Enemy Ship while Floating Backwards...

If the Enemy Ship has more Crew than me. I will Pass him, And Hold my Fire till hes Aligned his Broadside knowing that he will turn onto me and go for a Broadside Duel.

1 out of 2. Extremely easy to abuse and very stupid to watch. Especially when more Crew does not Equal Superior Armor and Firepower.

 

 

2 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Well said!

I completely agree!

While I agree with some of the Named Notions. I would ask you to keep this Discussion out of this Topic.

This Topic is for NPC Behavior and this Screenshot of mine was in Fact done on the PvE Server.

So PvP Rewards and Discussion are an different and entirely unrelated Topic here :)

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Ai fleet IS a part of PVP. Because the ai ships accompanying me in PVP are there to cover my retreat if I'm ganked. They sail like they're drunk...what good is the high point fleet perk if the Ai fleet ship sail away from the battle when commanded to attack?

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I can live with the behavior of the AI itself.  It was not terribly good, but it first fulfilled its purpose, at times until other priorities of the game are completed.
 
But they do their scripts as if they were motorboats. That had worked reasonably well with the old sail mechanics. With the new, however, no more and leads to the results we have now. It does not mean that I want to go back to the old sailing mechanic, only the pursued maneuvers of the AI should be depend to the wind direction.
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23 minutes ago, Holm Hansen said:
I can live with the behavior of the AI itself.  It was not terribly good, but it first fulfilled its purpose, at times until other priorities of the game are completed.
 
But they do their scripts as if they were motorboats. That had worked reasonably well with the old sail mechanics. With the new, however, no more and leads to the results we have now. It does not mean that I want to go back to the old sailing mechanic, only the pursued maneuvers of the AI should be depend to the wind direction.

Oh absolutely! The sail mechanic now is spot on! Just need to teach ai how to sail it! 

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Pls note.

I attacked this Fleet from Straight behind with Wind coming from Rear Right of my Ship.

So the NPCs in essence had the Choice to either turn around Left or turn around Right to Face me.

Take a Guess which Direction they Turned.....

107E5554952D1FDBA728265E93EED2AAD7FF69EC

 

 

 

Sometimes I wonder if NPCs are Horny Cats.

Scratch their Back and your going to see them Lift their Tail and Offer their Rear to you....

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It would be enough if these specific wind directions avoided from them. In most cases they also come on the other turning direction to the goal. It makes they would also be able to handle with the new sail mechanics. 

... and it would also be a bit more of reality, I think.

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