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vazco

Perspective of a new player

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In last months I had an experience of training a community of new players into becoming a somewhat cohesive RvR group. I want to share my experiences of perspective of new players, as I think that if we want to have more people playing the game, we need to make some improvements.

Issue

A path of a new player is rocky. It's even harder if they're in an inexperienced community of new players (let's say, a new community that doesn't speak english). It's not just about lack of experience. It's a quite often scenario that many inexperienced players fight a few veterans and they all sink, without sinking any enemy. In my opinion such battles should end with at least a few ships sunk or near-to-be sunk on a winning, experienced side. Otherwise, end effect will be that noone will fight experienced teams, or that inexperienced players will quit, fed up by constant losses. Not able to have a more or less even fight is what kills activity the quickest.

In my opinion battles like these shouldn't be possible:

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(ship on the right sinking only due to a manual sail mistake of an inexperienced player)

5Nv7ZwD.jpg

In both those battles some experienced players destroyed inexperienced ones with BR advantage, without having (m)any losses on their side.

 

What in my opinion should be fixed.

1. repairs - inexperienced team can't use repairs effectively. Sure, single ships will repair, however they will often sink before retreating fully, and inexperienced team usually can't protect them in time. On the other hand experienced players can repair many times through the whole battle. Limiting number of hull repairs further will at least give the inexperienced side a kill or two, limiting advantage of vetans.

2. mods - having carpenter reports, carpenters and northern carpenters with proper perks is a deadly combo. There are some others as well (which I won't reveal, since they give me an advantage in game :ph34r: ). New players usually don't use mods well, and treat unusual properties of their enemies as cheats. I think it would be good for the game if all bonuses from all mods were lowered by 30-50%. It would make NA more about skill, less about finding this one deadly combo and whacking other players with this knowledge. The most important part though is it would give inexperienced players some chance to sink a few enemies before they all sink in an even battle.

3. armor mods - fixing point above should help already. The issue of new players is that they usually don't have an alt in Sweden/Russia, or a contact there, and they can't get mods which would make their ships much more powerful. They also don't have PvP marks to spare in larger quantity for PvP upgrades. Giving a limit to armour improvement, or limiting influence of all mods, would solve this issue.

4. demasting - ships should be probably by default harder to demast. Right now they can be configured to be so, however it still gives you a huge advantage over a less experienced crowd.

5. VM's - small nations with inexperienced players don't have means to train in RvR on even terms. I won't write about this here, I think I already wrote a lot on this matter.

 

In my opinion if we won't fix those issues, most new players will quickly come and leave the game, regardless of tutorials, or promotions.

Edited by vazco
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Btw, some of the last changes already improved situation a lot :

New sail model making demasting harder, new anti-demast mods, wind changing in battles, cheaper pvp mods. Good work there. More can be done though. 

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I agree on point 1, disagree on point 2 - but only because I think mods should be removed, point 3 becomes moot if we removed all mods, point 4 - totally agree.. It's a demasting game and it doesn't take much skill to take down masts, on point 5 I'd just say remove all VM and make the first rates prohibitively expensive to make - this would ofc req an overhaul of the econ system in general (much needed and much overdue).

 

But good points m8..

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While I agree with some things you write... I’m looking at the battle pics you posted and there’s just as many “curses” and “Rear Admirals” on each side....  

I see 2 issues here:

1) The ability of people to achieve high ranks without ever having to really learn sailing/fighting mechanics and then getting mad/discourages when they are subjected to people who can.

2) The long-standing debate of “mods” and the ability to stack them to create unrealistic ships made of steel.  

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In my opinion there should by tutorial for new players - it would be very helpful for new captains. NA can be very hard at the beginning of adventure. I think I would leave if my clan wouldn't invited me to play with them.

Edited by Parchin

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2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

While I agree with some things you write... I’m looking at the battle pics you posted and there’s just as many “curses” and “Rear Admirals” on each side....  

It's not the rank that decides about experience :) We actually had 3 experienced players in a first battle, and 2 in a second one. Others had some experience in PvP, but not big afaik. Still it was enough. In first battle enemy had 1 experienced PvP'er from what I saw, in second - none.

Rank is not showing experience, however it's not such a big issue for me personally. Other issues are.

Edited by vazco

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3 hours ago, vazco said:

What in my opinion should be fixed.

1. repairs - inexperienced team can't use repairs effectively. Sure, single ships will repair, however they will often sink before retreating fully, and inexperienced team usually can't protect them in time. On the other hand experienced players can repair many times through the whole battle. Limiting number of hull repairs further will at least give the inexperienced side a kill or two, limiting advantage of vetans. I will bet, That both of the battles mentioned above the higher br teams,  Did not Attack or press the attack TOGETHER.      Almost every battle like this is is lost for one reason,  They didn't stay together.  You can have 5 1st rates and 3 4th rates can easily kill every single one, if they the 1st rates split up and Do not protect each other. I can not tell you how many times I have seen this. (Some dumb ass shooting Chain 700m away at me while his buddy just lose 500 crew). I have even been on the losing Side of this.  People to scared to lose a ship or get shot at will hang back even with over whelming odds.  There is/a Domino effect. Good players use this like putting butter on bread.  IT only takes 1 player in a group to Fubar the/a "ok" group up.  Smaller groups that work together as a group and will split up all the time, but they are never to far away from each other until they break some one loose.  Then they will all break off and attack that ship.  Then do it again until battle is over  

 

2. mods - having carpenter reports, carpenters and northern carpenters with proper perks is a deadly combo. There are some others as well (which I won't reveal, since they give me an advantage in game :ph34r: ). New players usually don't use mods well, and treat unusual properties of their enemies as cheats. I think it would be good for the game if all bonuses from all mods were lowered by 30-50%. It would make NA more about skill, less about finding this one deadly combo and whacking other players with this knowledge. The most important part though is it would give inexperienced players some chance to sink a few enemies before they all sink in an even battle.

This whole Statement is not true hate to bust your bubble. (A myth just like alt abuse)  Having every repair mod in game, or Having every Planking / "Steal" upgrade and Don't forget about the reloading upgrades. (Not going to list them all) They Do not matter one bit.  You just change your tactic soon as...... You and your group figure it out.  Everyone of the upgrades has a Counter.  The Crtl -L with one broad side into someone Will tell you everything you need to know about a boat,  What cannons they have how much damage you did at what range bla bla.  Adjust adapt..... You will win if you did it fast enough and lose if you didn't.  But again it 95% working as a team.  Mods mean nothing if you know how to react to them.  Its been proven on Legends and still is every weekend.  The good player wins more than the not so good players. 

3. armor mods - fixing point above should help already. The issue of new players is that they usually don't have an alt in Sweden/Russia, or a contact there, and they can't get mods which would make their ships much more powerful. They also don't have PvP marks to spare in larger quantity for PvP upgrades. Giving a limit to armour improvement, or limiting influence of all mods, would solve this issue. Again You are just asking for even fights. (I get it) But you can take away all mods and all officers and anything else you can think of form everyone and the battle would still end up the same every time if you do not work together.  Mods do nothing but make the battle end faster for the better group in the long run.

4. demasting - ships should be probably by default harder to demast. Right now they can be configured to be so, however it still gives you a huge advantage over a less experienced crowd.  This one I can kinda agree with you some, Maybe.  Not so much tho, Maybe just a little.

Bad or not so good players shoot chain from start of fight no matter what, trying to run or attacking it almost comical. Chain not knock mast down nor does it do anything to the side of a boat(FYI).  Good players only ever Shoot Chain when chasing people down(True Story).  The rest of time they are shooting Ball or Grape.  Laffing at the guy that just shoot full BS of chain into their side. Shooting Chain is truly the stupidest thing you can do in a battle unless your are chasing some one down.  So when or if they switch from spree and Prey to actually hitting something it take a very long time to adjust.

5. VM's - small nations with inexperienced players don't have means to train in RvR on even terms. I won't write about this here, I think I already wrote a lot on this matter.

Switch Nation Mate, Or ask Someone to switch for a while to teach you, it not like every player in game atm, not got like 5-10 forged papers they can burn.

 

 

Edited by JobaSet

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2 hours ago, Parchin said:

In my opinion there should by tutorial for new players - it would be very helpful for new captains. NA can be very hard at the beginning of adventure. I think I would leave if my clan wouldn't invited me to play with them.

They are working on an in game tutorial, I believe. 

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4 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

They are working on an in game tutorial, I believe. 

Devs said that tut is ready, but they are still testing it.

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I'm hoping tutorial fixes this. I still see flag captains and up who aren't manual sailing their turns and don't range their shots. A new player wouldn't know these things are 100% necessary in PVP without explicitly being told, which they aren't at all until a more experience player explains it to them.

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Wouldn't mind seeing ranks attributed to a pvp kill counter or level of influence within a nation.  Game still has a lot to "fix" before a compromise is achieved.

 

Hopefully before the two upcoming pirate/naval warfare titles get released.

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6 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I'm hoping tutorial fixes this. I still see flag captains and up who aren't manual sailing their turns and don't range their shots. A new player wouldn't know these things are 100% necessary in PVP without explicitly being told, which they aren't at all until a more experience player explains it to them.

I never range shots.  It puts up a cloud of smoke that obscures your target so you're basically providing a smoke screen for them, and then by the time the shot has registered both the enemy ship or your ship have already moved so the information is old news and it may be too late to fire the broadside at all.

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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Some other fights which shouldn't be possible (someone should sink on the winning side):

a.thumb.png.0688f3730eaaeeb30e8c170f2fb262b5.png

b.thumb.png.d96e9d9de9585d68ab0189a1c6b4222e.png

This result in large part is possible due to overpowered ship mods and repairs.

A response that we get sometimes is "fck that, I won't fight with them again". After a few battles like these many probably quit.

@admin, please address issues mentioned here. Even when the battle is lost, it should be more balanced.

People should also have more incentive fighting with experienced players, so that when they win, they get a better reward.

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@vazco I respect your approach and attitude, you have made some good points. I hope they listen.

PvP guys who destroy fleets of enemy players and accept the role of mods and other differentiating stuff which they use. Anyway may be without skill books and modules you should be getting similiar results due to your skill level and experience, but it is showing your humility to adress the situation like the way you did.

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1 hour ago, AeRoTR said:

I hope they listen.

Luckily last patch already adresses points 2,3 and 4.

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I guess this post requires an update. People suddenly started to complain about mods now, when they were mostly fixed. It's impossible to stack OP amount of repairs now. It's not that important to have mast upgrades. Due to thickness change, thickness is no more OP, as to have significant amount of thickness you need to sacrifice a lot. 

Right now only sail mods are OP, as well as planking and hammocks upgrade on 6th rates. All other mods are fairly balanced, as far as I know. Good work devs!

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