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Gunnur

Safe Zones - A better way

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Just to preface - I haven't been around as long as many of you guys have, but I have been around long enough to see the back and forth regarding safe zones.

As a noob I was a victim of seal clubbing, and I understand and support the desire to avoid it. However the current system of blocking off significant portions of the map and basically making them safe from PVP means that 80-90% of players at any given time seem to be hiding in a safe zone where they can't get attacked until they are comfortable that they outnumber the opposition by a significant margin and willing to initiate combat.

In order to help support pvp (as a building block towards active rvr conflict outside of just port battles) is there any chance to move to a middle ground where the reinforcement zones only protect players below a certain rank or battle rating?  That way experienced and skilled players would have to be active and on their toes even in local waters, where as new players still won't be getting crushed by experienced hunters.

Thoughts?

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I would make it so that the CAPITAL is the ONLY place with a safe zone. A big one. And that NO OTHER places are safe. Including NO reinforcements.

But i would make the capital zone quite large.

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18 minutes ago, Ligatorswe said:

I would make it so that the CAPITAL is the ONLY place with a safe zone. A big one. And that NO OTHER places are safe. Including NO reinforcements.

But i would make the capital zone quite large.

How would it be a safe zone without reinforcements?

 

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31 minutes ago, seanjo said:

How would it be a safe zone without reinforcements?

 

He suggested to only have a safezone around the capital. A rather big one though, nothing else

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6 hours ago, Gunnur said:

only protect players below a certain rank or battle rating?

Honestly, this seems like a no-brainer and I have suggested this time and time again.... thank you for bringing it up once more. Rank 5+ players should not get any reinforcments at all...

If someone doesn't make any effort to get into PvP on the PvP server while leveling up, that is his problem - you don't need a big ship to do PvP ( watch the prussians with their prince fetish ) and if you do PvP every now and then you'll be at least acceptable for your rank at 5+.....

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Don't think the devs should change it to be honest. The safe zones are bullshit but sadly we all see how effective they are.... There are so many rear admiral that are so bad they need the zones more than newbies that come to game. The way to deal with it is with events. The ship wrecks could spawn better loot like rare books and I would hunt there everyday. A few of us brits went there yesterday and got some marks and capped some chests and it was very fun indeed. If there was better loot in those wrecks. More would come. 

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1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

The ship wrecks could spawn better loot like rare books and I would hunt there everyday. A few of us brits went there yesterday and got some marks and capped some chests and it was very fun indeed. If there was better loot in those wrecks. More would come. 

Anything really but having these zones for vets without any incentive to leave them is just a bit silly.... I know there are PvP marks but people alt farm those anyways...

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Just now, Landsman said:

Anything really but having these zones for vets without any incentive to leave them is just a bit silly.... I know there are PvP marks but people alt farm those anyways...

Vets? You think all the youtube videos of 5vs25 and loosening 15 ships are vet players? The zones are fine and who cares about mark farming.... I care about the battle im in and if I win or not. If im playing vs a guy that just farms alts and he has the best books and best ship Ill still beat him cause I am a pvper and he isnt. So I will cap his ship and his farming goes into my pocket :P

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2 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Vets? You think all the youtube videos of 5vs25 and loosening 15 ships are vet players?

No, but the zone works for all, so yeah vets too.... and that is what I said.

4 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

The zones are fine

For new players yeah, but for experienced without incentive to leave them not so much...

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

who cares about mark farming

I don't know, maybe someone who doesn't play 24/7 and also earns them legit?

6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

. I care about the battle

You will be shocked to hear, that there would be more battles, if there were more reasons to leave the green zones...

8 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

If im playing vs a guy that just farms alts and he has the best books and best ship Ill still beat him cause I am a pvper and he isnt. So I will cap his ship and his farming goes into my pocket :P

Well yeah, if you find him outside of the green zones and he hasn't used the marks to get PvP books or traded them to PvE players for rare books, then sure...

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@Landsman Hachi gave an excemple to give players a reason to leave the safe zones (better loot in ship wrecks).

And I agree. We need way more reasons (Content) to do so. 

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

He suggested to only have a safezone around the capital. A rather big one though, nothing else

Yeah quoted the wrong fella, meant to quote Ligatorswe

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1 hour ago, seanjo said:

How would it be a safe zone without reinforcements?

 

I think @Ligatorswe means the zone were the battles are allways open for the "home" team.

Thow, i allready see the abuse potential, like... If a group of players tag an alt, and thus create s trapp for those who come in that battle thinking they will help.

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2 hours ago, Landsman said:

Honestly, this seems like a no-brainer and I have suggested this time and time again.... thank you for bringing it up once more. Rank 5+ players should not get any reinforcments at all...

 

Again, since it seems that someone did not understand that: huge safe zones that extend to several port around the capital city have not (only) the function to protect newbies but (also) the function to let "easy" factions (like GB, Spain and US) to develop a crafting/haversting self-sustainable basic economy.

Edited by victor

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I would like to keep safe zones at the capitals AND get more incentives to sail out of these!

In more detail I imagine it like that:

1. Safe zones:

- only in capital areas

- available reinforcements when attacked and inside the zone

- PvE inside those zones and you just get basic upgrades, gold and xp.

This would secure the basic trade and those who want to level their ships up.

To make the leveling more comfortable I‘d even suggest, that missions picked in the capital just spawn inside the safe zone.

2. Incentives to go out of those zones:

- make rare books, ressources and upgrades available by regularly appearing wrecks or optimized versions of epic events (like already mentioned by someone else)

- make successful smuggling / risky trade far more rewarding than sailing pve missions inside the safe zone

- at best let smuggling contribute to the player driven economy, instead of just being some kind of trade mission - e.g. extra stacks of precious woods in the concerned ports, which could just be bought / traded by smugglers

- PvP and Victory marks unlock rewards / as option of payment

- maybe extend the nations getting one Victory mark per round down to the 5. place (more would see a chance of getting those marks -> fiercer fights!?)

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3 hours ago, Stepp636 said:

Hachi gave an excemple to give players a reason to leave the safe zones (better loot in ship wrecks).

And I agree. We need way more reasons (Content) to do so. 

Yeah, and I agreed too... ?! I said anything that gives incentive would be welcome and this is one example indeed.

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The intention of safe zones was only to deny sealclubbing. Question is, why not let low rank players choose to be immune instead?! Another very annoying problem people also used to justify safe zones is mission jumping. But why not just reduce the jump timer to ~1minute, so youre safe in the mission when no enemy was in sight.

Bear in mind that we always had some kind of save zones. Inside a port you and your stuff is 100% safe. Around capitals battles stayed open for the defender.

The major point is that current safe zones are addressing the symptoms, but not the cause of the gank problem. Specific mechanics are allowing and even promoting gank tactics. Imbalanced weak ships in addition promote people to avoid fair battles. Improve this and you dont need such strict safe zones. Dont change this and everything you do is going to be restrictive by not solving any issues. Problems are just transferred, and when you force people not intending to PvP to leave safe zones, same problems are going to return.

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I can suggest safezones as outposts. If players supply them they last and grow up to maximum size set by developer. If players do not supply them then they shrink and can drop. Safezones should not be enabled all the time, but rather start with set amount of supplies that fleets/forts consume while patrolling waters and it should be Nation task to keep all zones up and healthy. Only rookie areas will never drop, but only get small circle size if not supplied. The Larger the port more supplies needed per day. 

-2 - Empty (Safe zone drops)

-1- Low

0 - Normal <-------- Starting point

1 - Protected

2 -Well Protected (Largest circle).

Edited by H2O

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Vet players can be ganked as easily as newbs.  For vets who are trading for their clan or gathering resources to build ships, I'm not sure how one can justify taking away their protection while performing those activities, then at the same time protect someone else because of lesser rank?  You either take away protection entirely or you leave it for all.  If a player wants to stay in the protected zone, it's their own decision to do so no matter what rank they are.  But like above, if you want to get them out of it, incentivize.

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1 hour ago, Jean Ribault said:

Vet players can be ganked as easily as newbs.  For vets who are trading for their clan or gathering resources to build ships, I'm not sure how one can justify taking away their protection while performing those activities, then at the same time protect someone else because of lesser rank?  You either take away protection entirely or you leave it for all.  If a player wants to stay in the protected zone, it's their own decision to do so no matter what rank they are.  But like above, if you want to get them out of it, incentivize.

Protection is magical. I understand it's ok for rookie zones, but the rest of the world is simply magic. 

Questions:

1. Who is protecting safe zones? (Fleets/Forts)

2. Who is supplying protection? (Magic) Cost/resources are non existent . (Magic)

Tell me who is supplying energy to hold the shield (stupid Harry Potter movie)? You see the hole there? That would be NA players not supplying enough resources and constantly under attack from enemy who damages protection (zone) creating/reducing it's size. @admin

3433646.jpg

 

Edited by H2O

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3 minutes ago, H2O said:

Protection is magical. I understand it's ok for rookie zones, but the rest of the world is simply magic. 

Questions:

1. Who is protecting safe zones? (Fleets/Forts)

2. Who is supplying protection? (Magic) Cost/resources are non existent . (Magic)

@admin Yeah, green zones should have like 20% taxes... players should pay for it. Mabye not new players but max rank certainly.

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14 minutes ago, Landsman said:

@admin Yeah, green zones should have like 20% taxes... players should pay for it. Mabye not new players but max rank certainly.

There should be a supply meter and required supply packages must be made by players. Food, Wood, Ammo etc.. all this will maintain Fleets and Forts that patrol safe zones --> Zone size and prevent risk of Zone drop. Also, sailing activity should increase. 

Enemy on the other hand can supply their offensive fleets that will attack players in safe zones. The more enemy supplies the fleet the more NPCs will appear in safe zones and will be aggressive vs players. Such NPC fleets should only operate in safe zones. 

Imagine if enemy supplies offensive fleets well enough that they populate all safe zones forcing other side to clean the mess (eliminate aggressive NPC threat). Now that is a game I would pay monthly subscription for. :o

I simply see it as miniature home waters wars that do not require long sail and can provide nice activities to all player bases. 

It also can provide new player style - Gate keeper (players who protect safe zones). @admin

Edited by H2O

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Really like many of the suggestions posted here and even agree with many points people have mentioned. However, why does this even concern people? Fools anyways take the greenzone for granted and casually sail out in thier santis to do missions and get ganked by some wasa, die, then complain that nobody helps them. There is no shortage of such incompetent players and this really shouldn't be an issue for gankers. What do you want? Your prey handed to you on a silver platter? They kinda already present themselves to you in that fashion anyways. 

Any discussion done with regards to greenzone is pretty redundant thanks to moronic players like this. If you're a ganker, be an opportunist and understand that there are risks of sailing towards an enemy port to catch prey. Wait for someone to make a mistake and have them suffer the consequences of their dumb decision. :)

I totally agree on more incentives to leave the greenzone, however. They're fantastic for leveling up ships and that's what I use 'em for, but in theory I can keep doing this until I can buy stuff from others... If I were to get an incentive to leave the greenzone for say.. better rewards for some loot, or increasing the drop rate of bottles so people would sail out of the greenzone... multiple options, IMO. Greenzones serve their purpose just fine, you just dont have many people getting out because there's no reason to, so give them a reason and the problem will disappear. 

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Imop safezones should only be big enough to support postcaptain missions by the capital. Anything higher spawns outside of it. These massive safe zones are making the NA PvP server feel like a PVE server/ PoTBs 2018. 

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I believe the problem lies at the very foundation of what the game is intended to be. Is this a PvP focused game or is it a PVE focused game? The devs have obviously struggled with this very simple yet core question. by there own admission, when it was in very early development, it was to be primarily a PvP game with PvE available. Somewhere during the course of development the need to shift focus more toward PvE and the more "traditional" grind of PvE as a source of accomplishment or achievement crept into their minds. I'm not sure exactly why this happened....change in the money backing the development or just a belief that they needed to appeal to a larger audience? Regardless, I understand the desire to provide content that appeals to a wide variety of players but i don't agree with the implementation of the strategy.

I'm not a PvE player so correct me if i'm wrong on this folks.....but I believe what you desire more than anything is actual content. For example, a much more developed and interesting mission system. Something where your "missions" are closer to what one might call "quests" in other MMO's. Not so much kill "x" number of NPC's but rather more complex and interesting. Currently, there is nothing interesting about the mission system. If someone had this as an assignment and came back with the current mission system as content I would give them an "F" as it lacks even the most basic of effort.  The truly sad part is that they have a wealth of opportunity to develop PvE content that would be interesting to PvE focused players but would add to the PvP and RvR world. Of the top of my head I could think of things that could be created like exploration missions, Trade ship cargo escorts missions, more developed and interesting treasure map/ship wreck exploration, war zones that pay out larger monetary rewards for captains who bring in desired cargo to specific ports....I could go on but you get the idea. This kind of stuff is actually interesting and fits right in with the PvP/RvR game world.....you can actively support your nations war effort but not have to be a PvP guy while doing it.

Don't try to eliminate the possibility of PvP by having artificial safe zones. It really doesn't accomplish anything other than offer a half measure that nobody is satisfied with. What I have seen over numerous years and wipes is an attempt to make ships valuable and make the loss of them carry "weight". The problem is that after a relatively short period of time many accumulate so much wealth that the loss of a ship becomes virtually meaningless. This is not going to change.....making ships or gear harder to replace simply shifts the burden of loss to the newer or less experienced players. It widens the gap between the haves and the have not's. Those that are newer to the game shun PvP because they cannot afford the risk associated with losing a fight....and it promotes the gank makes right mentality. This is such a dated way of looking at MMO's....stop trying to copy other games and stick with what you preached from your early days. In all honesty, the devs have completely gotten away from what they said NA would be about.....this is why I firmly believe something changed during development in regards to who was guiding it. 

True PvP'ers want to have good challenging fights. They want to face an opponent where the outcome of the fight is not determined by gear but rather by skill. This is not to say they do not want customization....but this customization should not be dependent upon RNG drops from grinding AI. I do not see how the current system is really appealing to the PvP focused player or the PvE focused player. It simply is in a really crappy no mans land that leaves everyone disappointed. This is why I stopped playing. I simply hate having to grind NPC's for countless hours so I can accumulate the various gear and unlocks to be on the same footing as my opponents during PvP. Yes, I know some will say that is what Legends is for but I think that is missing the point. I love the OW aspect of the game and the random encounters you face....I simply do not like having it tied behind an artificial grind wall that isn't making anyone happy. It isn't adding "content" to PvE'ers and it certainly isn't appealing to PvP'ers....so what the hello kitty is the point of it?! You know what reward I found to be the greatest in PvP? Facing another human opponent and coming out on top or at least giving them one hell of a good fight....that's it. Pure and simple. True PvP players want that competition and challenge.....I don't want to know I won because I outnumbered my opponent 5 to 1 or that I simply had better gear. Anyone who disagrees with those sentiments is not a PvP'er....regardless of what they want to call themselves.

 

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