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SKurj

So you want to hunt player traders...

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I see it brought up often that the peeveeps want player traders to hunt...  They exist... and they will be the most risk averse players you will find (at least when in a trader).  They are out there, I just think the typical peeveep is NOT willing to put in the work/boredom to find them.

Yes the reinf zones protect the traders working in the home zone, but you can't find everything in the safe zone.  I spend 90%+ of my time outside safe zones in a trade ship, and rarely see another player except at each end.

I have considered going for 3 ship fleets and adding a combat ship to the fleet but AI captains in player fleets are idiots.. likely not worth it.... mebbe a 3rd indiaman...

 

 

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Why would you ever leave a green zone, though?

Everything is right there, with short distances and zero risk. Taxes are the same. You've got everything but the exotic woods.

Most factions also have ports with trade goods quite close to the green.

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3 minutes ago, maturin said:

Why would you ever leave a green zone, though?

Everything is right there, with short distances and zero risk. Taxes are the same. You've got everything but the exotic woods.

Most factions also have ports with trade goods quite close to the green.

Don't we see this as a problem for the game? Shouldn't there be significant incentives for leaving the green zone?  Mechanics that encourage fleeting, escorting, raiding, and other opportunities for player-generated content?

For example, I still would like to see resource gathering spots that are discoverable along coast lines (call them trading posts, etc.) where players can loiter, spend labor hours and/or gold and collect resources at rates much better than in-port production buildings.

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everything to be meh is in the greenzone sure i can make teak ships, or oak or fir, but i can't make LO or WO , I also can't trade in other nations goods to make some money in between.

 

There are reasons to leave the safe zone..  perhaps it is diluted by the crazy mission rewards these days.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Don't we see this as a problem for the game? Shouldn't there be significant incentives for leaving the green zone?  Mechanics that encourage fleeting, escorting, raiding, and other opportunities for player-generated content?

My point exactly.

Once upon a time, the economy got overheated in the capital region and competition was fierce, but now the buildings are just the same for everyone.

Quote

everything to be meh is in the greenzone sure i can make teak ships, or oak or fir, but i can't make LO or WO , I also can't trade in other nations goods to make some money in between.

Most nations have 1-2 special woods in their green zone. In Spain there is plentiful WO and LO, and I'm not even sure that it drops nearby.

Gathering rare woods via contract is a business for only the few traders that pay the premium prices. Then the wood trickles down to your average crafter/trader who has no reason to leave the green.

The most you need to do is little puddle jumps to the nearest (former) free port.

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2 hours ago, maturin said:

Why would you ever leave a green zone, though?

Everything is right there, with short distances and zero risk. Taxes are the same. You've got everything but the exotic woods.

Most factions also have ports with trade goods quite close to the green.

The correct question is another: why would you ever trade in safe zones when farming high level combat missions in the same zones will give you much more money per hour?

A dedicated trader knows perfectly that making big money with trading (that is more money per hour than farming missions in 1st rates) requires a fleet of three indiamans and trade routes  that take you almost always out of the safe zones.

 

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1 hour ago, maturin said:

 In Spain there is plentiful WO and LO, and I'm not even sure that it drops nearby.

 

In safe zones of Spain there is NO white oak nor live oak nor teak (which are the only three woods worth trading).

If you make trading more difficult the only consequence will be that traders will never leave safe zones since they will start grinding missions.

Then you will cry for eliminating safe zones.

And eliminating safe zones will make ex-traders and casual players leaving the game.

Surgery perfectly accomplished, what a shame that patient died

 

Edited by victor

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Where is the adventure in riskfree trading? The safezones make no difference to me, i only leave from them or arrive at them, so, like others said already +90% of time spent is outside the safezone.

Trading those fantasygoods is not very interesting, it brings nothing to the world (except maybe to farm/harvest a region to make the normal users have to go elsewhere or are able to buy less resource ... oh wait, that doesn't work in this game :-p ). Might as well play a singleplayer. And fantasygoods are only profitable (time invested and all) if you trade in bulk (3 indiaman at once).

Trying to find the rare stuff is what makes it fun, exactly because you have to sail into enemy waters to get them. Unfortunately, all the alts make it an an unfair/unwinnable goal (as in a normal player can't compete against a player with an alt as he can't set up contracts (apparently this is not an issue for the devs, I really don't get why people don't (want to?) understand that?)).

VP doesn't have any rare woods that spawn in any of their ports and alts are competing for the stuff that does (some of those seem to be selling upgrades in quantity, similar names pop-up in freetowns aswell).

Making money from missions is far more profitable goldwise, but i rather get payed in resources anyway (they have more value atm).

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I find it sad that recently high experienced players and their alts take basic cutters to haul  high value mats. That makes every basic cutter a target which is bad in my opinion. That started to occur as mats got reduced in weight.

Edited by z4ys
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7 hours ago, maturin said:

Why would you ever leave a green zone, though?

Everything is right there, with short distances and zero risk. Taxes are the same. You've got everything but the exotic woods.

Most factions also have ports with trade goods quite close to the green.

Have you actually done any trading? Trading within the green zone is only useful for gathering materials for crafting. I have yet to find a trade good that I can make profit from by trading entirely within the green zone.

There may be a few ports close to the green zone that have trade goods that you can make a profit from on the short run, but they are few and far between and usually you will find these are already monopolized. 

In general for crafting goods, these can be done completely in the green zone and I believe that was the intention, so no nation could be reduced to a level where they could not craft ships. But for trade goods you usually have to travel some distance out from the green zone to make any worthwhile profit.

Crafting goods do not give much profit till they are used in crafting, and I actually do not believe you can make any profit trading crafting goods to the NPC.

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43 minutes ago, z4ys said:

I find it sad that recently high experienced players and their alts take basic cutters to haul  high value mats. That makes every basic cutter a target which is bad in my opinion. That started to occur as mats got reduced in weight.

I'd always prefer a Lynx over a Basic Cutter for that job ^_^

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44 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

I'd always prefer a Lynx over a Basic Cutter for that job ^_^

But people trying to mask their intents behind the aura of basic cutters ( denying pvp marks, looking like noobs) is bad for the real noobs. Suddenly noobs are becoming vicitms, because 4 of 5 basic cutters i recently captured were crowded with long cannons + rar woods and other crafting stuff. That makes me hunt basic cutters and newcomers suffer, because they get in the line of fire.

In my opinion Basic cutters should only able to put stuff from looting ships in battle into hold. But deny access to hold other than putting stuff out in ports. That would underline the intend, of the basic cutter, as noob ship + last hope for broken captains.

Edited by z4ys
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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

But people trying to mask their intents behind the aura of basic cutters ( denying pvp marks, looking like noobs) is bad for the real noobs. Suddenly noobs are becoming vicitms, because 4 of 5 basic cutters i recently captured were crowded with long cannons + rar woods and other crafting stuff. That makes me hunt basic cutters and newcomers suffer, because they get in the line of fire.

In my opinion Basic cutters should only able to put stuff from looting ships in battle into hold. But deny access to hold other than putting stuff out in ports. That would underline the intend, of the basic cutter, as noob ship + last hope for broken captains.

Just reduce the hold space on the BC to say 50 and job done.

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Most shipbuilding goods are way too light, a legacy from the days where you had to sail half the map to find any iron, or cart all the supplies there for the construction bonus.

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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

But people trying to mask their intents behind the aura of basic cutters ( denying pvp marks, looking like noobs) is bad for the real noobs. Suddenly noobs are becoming vicitms, because 4 of 5 basic cutters i recently captured were crowded with long cannons + rar woods and other crafting stuff. That makes me hunt basic cutters and newcomers suffer, because they get in the line of fire.

Nobody's suffering - Basic Cutters are free.  Even noobs don't care much if they sink. 

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5 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Nobody's suffering - Basic Cutters are free.  Even noobs don't care much if they sink. 

So you dont think it is a bad game experience when a victory or other big ships shoot them in a few seconds to oblivion because they dont know how the game works?

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2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

So you dont think it is a bad game experience when a victory or other big ships shoot them in a few seconds to oblivion because they dont know how the game works?

How is it any better when you do the same to an even more helpless but actually expensive t-brig? 

   

 

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18 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

How is it any better when you do the same to an even more helpless but actually expensive t-brig? 

 

 

A player who *buys* a T-brig is like a Middle Schooler wearing a diaper.

They should definitely be potty trained by that point. But if you can show me a whole class of them, maybe we do have to accommodate their needs.

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36 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

How is it any better when you do the same to an even more helpless but actually expensive t-brig? 

   

 

The difference is the basic cutter is a ship of new players . They get their first impression of the game in them. While a tbrig is a merchant vessel and a choice. Sail it and make yourself a target because of the goods you might carry.

Or do you want to tell me that merchants should be untoucable because they are traders?

I am just telling that vets ruin new player first impression by using BASIC cutters for trading and by this making them to targets.

Edited by z4ys

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4 hours ago, Archaos said:

Have you actually done any trading? Trading within the green zone is only useful for gathering materials for crafting. I have yet to find a trade good that I can make profit from by trading entirely within the green zone.

There may be a few ports close to the green zone that have trade goods that you can make a profit from on the short run, but they are few and far between and usually you will find these are already monopolized. 

In general for crafting goods, these can be done completely in the green zone and I believe that was the intention, so no nation could be reduced to a level where they could not craft ships. But for trade goods you usually have to travel some distance out from the green zone to make any worthwhile profit.

Crafting goods do not give much profit till they are used in crafting, and I actually do not believe you can make any profit trading crafting goods to the NPC.

Might as well make crafting resources other than woods buyable with combat marks, if everything is available in safezone already, its just an unnecessary time sink to haul mats around. The real money is in the trade goods anyway.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Might as well make crafting resources other than woods buyable with combat marks, if everything is available in safezone already, its just an unnecessary time sink to haul mats around. The real money is in the trade goods anyway.

Some of us like to gather shipbuilding mats by "borrowing" them instead of buying them....

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Just now, Vernon Merrill said:

Some of us like to gather shipbuilding mats by "borrowing" them instead of buying them....

borrowing ship mats from another nations safezone to haul back to your safezone? I don't think so.

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