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Jon Snow lets go

Change shipmodels of 1st rates

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6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Then buy them custom-built from crafters or stock from the ship yard.

How do you can craft ships with no ports? When rvr gets meaningful by resources then its even worse than the VM for the permit. I can tell you out of first hand not able to craft is even worse than having to pay VM for ships.

Edited by z4ys

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1 minute ago, z4ys said:

How do you can craft ships with no ports? When rvr gets meaningful by resources then its even worse than the VM for the permit. I can tell you out of experience not able to craft is even worse than having to pay VM for ships.

All but three nations have safe zones with almost every resource needed (and easy access to those others via smuggling) for crafting. The other nations are listed as "Impossible" for a reason.

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Just now, Wraith said:

 "Impossible" for a reason.

True. But how can you make RvR meanigful regarding resources when 8 nations already have everything? Changing that is against the purpose of carezones.

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12 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'm in full support of removing stacking of mods and making all mods craftable. But we should also make sure that Victory and PvP Marks for anything that's not superficial or game changing goes away as well, since these interact immensely.  If first rates and the best line ships (I'm looking at you Wasa, even though you're a 4th) are hidden behind Victory Marks smaller nations and clans will continue to hemorrhage players especially if those ships are easier and easier to sink.

Making RvR meaningful does not have to include Victory Marks. Fix the economy, make ports and their econ the RvR goal, and make ships and the mods to support them a product of an interesting and meaningful econ/trade/crafting system that even small nations and crafters can participate in and you'll have a much more rich and rewarding game world.

What if we took the non meta ships, the ones that are rarely used like the Essex, Hermie, and 3rd Rate, and made them very easy to get with maybe construction sets notes that need to be crafted? This gives purpose to non meta ships as mass produced ships of war than can compete with more powerful nations and their decked out meta ships.

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5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

True. But how can you make RvR meanigful regarding resources when 8 nations already have everything? Changing that is against the purpose of carezones.

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

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2 minutes ago, Stepp636 said:

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

How would it work with port and not regional conquest system though?

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1 minute ago, Stepp636 said:

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

In my opinion VM are a good feature to keep RvR going. The changes demanded unbalance OW pvp to much.

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9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

In my opinion VM are a good feature to keep RvR going. The changes demanded unbalance OW pvp to much.

Then ppl will keep beating an allready beaten nation.

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4 minutes ago, AxIslander said:

Then ppl will keep beating an allready beaten nation.

Everyone will always fight the weak because its easy.

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4 minutes ago, z4ys said:

In my opinion VM are a good feature to keep RvR going. The changes demanded unbalance OW pvp to much.

You're saying you're just fine with having to grind gold/pvp marks or rely on capping rated ships from the top three nations in order to continue to be competitive at RvR? I feel that's unsustainable for the majority population.

I'd propose making pop-up resource gathering zones (separate from production buildings) outside of safe zones, and hugely nerf/enhance resource production for ports inside/outside safe zones respectively in order to increase the importance of RvR.  Make certain zones (away from safe zones and regional capitals) much more likely for these pop-up resource gathering zones to appear and all of a sudden it makes sense to fight over ports that are near them. Pop-up resource gathering would also encourage people to sail out with their trade ships, escort them, and create PvP opportunities for raiders and sheep-dogs of different stripes.

14 minutes ago, Stepp636 said:

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

I'd strongly argue against this. This creates asymmetric advantages due to geographic location of safe zones and access to those region bonuses as well.  Why can't we just have ships and their customization that are built to order?  Some crafting materials for some of those customizations can be rare and regionally specific, but those shouldn't be game-breaking like the current PvP mark rewards are. I'd argue that all builds should have balance, all mods should have a bonus and malus that makes sense and provides trade-offs in construction/fitting choices.

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5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Everyone will always fight the weak because its easy.

Then you just need 3 nations, max 5, as everyone will switch anyway to the ones that are winning.

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The regional bonuses always struck me as a good idea that was poorly executed.  Perhaps create item specific needs into the region types that can only be found in various areas.  For example strong hull requires Southern Live oak, Cuban Whatever, Bermuda white oak or Panama Whatever.  You get the idea.  You don’t need to hold those regions to create the ships, but needing items from there makes them more vital.  

Lets be honest, most of the map excluding Carta is useless.  We need to create reasons for traders and player to be out of the safe zones.  This is a good way 

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5 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd argue that all builds should have balance, all mods should have a bonus and malus that makes sense and provides trade-offs in construction/fitting choices.

This is what I remember most players being in favor of for a long time.

Just as it is now, the player makes his choice of construction build, be it speed oriented or armor oriented. Couple this with the elimination of stackable mods (plus a considerable nerf to the overpowered ones) and the game will return to it's earlier emphasis on player skill in determining the outcome of battle.

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9 minutes ago, Wraith said:

You're saying you're just fine with having to grind gold/pvp marks or rely on capping rated ships from the top three nations in order to continue to be competitive at RvR? I feel that's unsustainable for the majority population.

 

We are not grinding. We are having fun. That is what prussia is doing and it works fine. Prussia had to reinvent RvR for themself. Old habit is build ships go to rvr. We did it the other way. We went to rvr with nothing than a handful of ships. Now everyone is sailing 1st and 2nd rates build at the US coast. Just start thinking out of the box. But i can understand. Carezones make lazy. That is what I experienced playing as pirate for a month.

Glad Russia and poland are proving that impossible is still playable. Now prussia starts to realize as well. Impossible cant be ruled by pve.

 

But we are talking about thickness. And yeah thickniss compared with the current pen model is something i dislike.

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2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

We are not grinding. We are having fun. That is what prussia is doing and it works fine. Prussia had to reinvent RvR for themself. Old habit is build ships go to rvr. We did it the other way. We went to rvr with nothing than a handful of ships. Now everyone is sailing 1st and 2nd rates build at the US coast. Just start thinking out of the box.

It works for those of us who are quite hard core or wily old veterans, and those that excel at PvP or the RvR meta... But like the thickness model we know very much how to game the system and make it work in our favor.

If we want to continue to have targets then we also need players in the game.  If you imagine am asset wipe without changing the current port ownership what would happen?  Who would come out on top? Which nations would quickly become ghost towns without their backlog of resources and rated ships?

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5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Really its only a thickness upgrades. Just making them have some downside and making them not stackable would go a long way.

They do have a downside already...speed reduction, normally.

 

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8 hours ago, jodgi said:

Upgrades being detrimental to gameplay?!

Still hear the voices of the swedes claiming upgrades don't matter a few months ago... good times.

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Just now, Landsman said:

Still hear the voices of the swedes claiming upgrades don't matter a few months ago... good times.

lel

I fought, or rather engaged in a tagging game, with the swedes a bit after the wipe. They dictated everything with their speedmods.

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6 hours ago, Stepp636 said:

Reintroduction of regional crafting boni. 

Live oak and strong hull was a must have for rvr but the devs should have Balanced it instead of removing. 

Holding ports in a Region has a meaning and gets some activity (shipyards, trading) 

Yes to regional conquest, but only as a staging process.

Btw, balancing what exactly?

 

6 hours ago, Christendom said:

The regional bonuses always struck me as a good idea that was poorly executed.  Perhaps create item specific needs into the region types that can only be found in various areas.  For example strong hull requires Southern Live oak, Cuban Whatever, Bermuda white oak or Panama Whatever.  You get the idea.  You don’t need to hold those regions to create the ships, but needing items from there makes them more vital.  

Lets be honest, most of the map excluding Carta is useless.  We need to create reasons for traders and player to be out of the safe zones.  This is a good way 

True.

Praying for some economical meaning in the game. And  PvP/RvR folks can benefit from it.

Still missing unfinished, badly performed FINE WOODS season.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Wraith said:

Why can't we just have ships and their customization that are built to order?

What do you mean?

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1 minute ago, Cortez said:

Yes to regional conquest, but only as a staging process.

Btw, balancing what exactly?

 

True.

Praying for some economical meaning in the game. And  PvP/RvR folks can benefit from it.

Still missing unfinished, badly performed FINE WOODS season.

 

 

I actually didn't mind the fine woods, it would of been better if LO was in more than 2 regions on the map.  Ya know like it is historically.  Even the change to when compass wood was useful was fine too.  

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2 minutes ago, Cortez said:

What do you mean?

he means that when you are crafting ships, you select the upgrades then and there.  

For example you craft a surprise with copper plating, speed trim and reinforced masts.  It has those for life, no changing.

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2 minutes ago, Cortez said:

What do you mean?

I'd be in favor of crafting mods being a skill tree of sorts for crafters, that with certain materials modifications with a bonus/malus (inherent tradeoff) could be baked into the ship at craft time.  Skill books would be an equivalent skill tree type system but with no multiplier effects possible.

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2 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I'd be in favor of crafting mods being a skill tree of sorts for crafters, that with certain materials modifications with a bonus/malus (inherent tradeoff) could be baked into the ship at craft time.  Skill books would be an equivalent skill tree type system but with no multiplier effects possible.

Got it, thanks.

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48 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I actually didn't mind the fine woods,

Me neither. I just threw my alts at that problem (like everyone else), that actually illustrates the problem with it.

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