Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Banished Privateer

Ships Heeling

Recommended Posts

I noticed that some ships are heeling extremely while others are pretty stable. Also, I tried capsizing a ship which is extremely hard and challenging, it should be more dangerous on some ships going 100% full sails.

Ships I noticed heel a lot (above 10-12 degrees): Pirate Frigate, Trincomalee, Santa Cecilia

Ships I tested that didn't heel much: Snow, Niagara (these are lake/river ships, small size with high masts, it would seem logical form them to heel much more?)

I'm not really convinced the new "heeling model" is well tuned, but I'm happy to see ships heel more with 100% sails. It's still crazy hard to capsize a ship and there is almost no risk of capsizing at the moment. 40 degrees heel is still safe, not mentioning 20-30 degrees... Of course it makes combat harder, but what are the historically or mathematically accurate values?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Banished Privateer said:

Ships I tested that didn't heel much: Snow, Niagara (these are lake/river ships, small size with high masts, it would seem logical form them to heel much more?)

Niagara is probably pretty stiff: she's wide and shallow. A hullform like that stands up to the wind well, up to a certain point. After that, stability rapidly deteriorates. Or in Niagara's case, the rail goes under, with her lack of freeboard. No doubt the devs limit the heeling of smaller vessels because they put their decks underwater much sooner.

(The policy on Niagara IRL is to limit heel to 10 degrees. She's not a stable vessel. A wind that can heel her 30 degrees is powerful enough to capsizing her.)

 

Quote

I'm not really convinced the new "heeling model" is well tuned, but I'm happy to see ships heel more with 100% sails. It's still crazy hard to capsize a ship and there is almost no risk of capsizing at the moment. 40 degrees heel is still safe, not mentioning 20-30 degrees... Of course it makes combat harder, but what are the historically or mathematically accurate values?

As a rule, if you are choosing to fly all your canvas, the current windspeed shouldn't be capable of capsizing the ship.

40 degrees of heel is well within the range of positive stability for a properly ballasted frigate, but it is still an 'extreme' situation, requiring galeforce winds. Oh, and water spilling onto the gundeck, IIRC.

If anyone is curious, a frigate with a full hold can be knocked down almost flat, and still spring back, if the inclining force is removed. But if it is hit with a gust strong enough to heel the ship over past 40 degrees, then the ship is theoretically in danger of capsizing and foundering. In practice the windforce will become less once the angle of heel becomes extreme and the wind goes out of the sails. On the other hand, past 20-ish degrees the water will spill into the gunports, and around 60 degrees the lower deck could flood through open hatches if the crew is unprepared.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

connie can heel up to 10 too. The leda class frigates(trinco) are famous for having a huge heel so it is something I would like the trinco atleast to always have. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

connie can heel up to 10 too. The leda class frigates(trinco) are famous for having a huge heel so it is something I would like the trinco atleast to always have. 

Actually the Leda-class was quite stiff. :)

They were known for being wet, which refers to pitch and roll characteristics that are a bit beyond the scope of the game, as they are not that relevant to battles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With a ballast upgrade on the Trinc, I was still heeling at 9deg at 90 to the wind.  I think it is a basic ballast upgrade or whatever it is called. 

I like the heel on the ships now, they feel about right on the larger 5th rates, but on the smaller ships like the 6th rates and 7th rates.  There is just a complete lack of heel.  Almost like they are just flat in the water most of the time. 

I have watched videos of the Lynx replica at sea under full sail, pushing 12knt and it heels a FAIR bit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6.01.2018 at 1:34 AM, Banished Privateer said:

It's still crazy hard to capsize a ship and there is almost no risk of capsizing at the moment. 

If in XVIII-IX'th century physics worked as today, it was most likely very hard to capsize just due to heeling - I heard of only badly designed ships to do this. Most capsizes would probably happen with a joined force of waves and wind. I bet that in most cases excess heel in bad weather would mean a loss of some crew, not a vessel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, vazco said:

If in XVIII-IX'th century physics worked as today, it was most likely very hard to capsize just due to heeling - I heard of only badly designed ships to do this.

Badly handled, rather.

Most large ships depended on the contents of their holds (stores plus ballast) for stability. To extrapolate the results of a study done for a Southampton-class frigate, when most of the provisions, water and shot were consumed, stability could become quite poor. The educated and able officer could correct this by taking on water ballast and adjusting the sailplan, however.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, maturin said:

Badly handled, rather.

I remember that eg. one of the first broadside ironclads sunk due to bad construction design (I don't remember the name though...). Also Wasa capsized due to construction error as well.

I didn't hear about a well designed ship from XVIII-IX century capsizing due to only the force of the wind, as a result of some risky maneuver. Maybe it's not that easy to find though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/01/2018 at 3:27 PM, Capn Rocko said:

Has anyone capsized yet? 

Yeah, on Inger. When sailing on inger, you have a big red button in your cabin, signed "Don't press!!!". Well, I pressed. Also, Inger is longer than it appears.

Other than Inger, I didn't hear of anyone capsizing for a long time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, vazco said:

I remember that eg. one of the first broadside ironclads sunk due to bad construction design (I don't remember the name though...). Also Wasa capsized due to construction error as well.

I didn't hear about a well designed ship from XVIII-IX century capsizing due to only the force of the wind, as a result of some risky maneuver. Maybe it's not that easy to find though.

Records wouldn't distinguish between capsizing, foundering and disappearing without a trace.

Point is, ships weren't designed to be stable with normal ballast loads alone. So poor seamanship could threaten an otherwise well-designed vessel. On the other hand, conservative sailhandling can take a dangerously unstable ship around the world three times.

Of the top of my head I only seem to recall accounts of fast privateers vanishing in squalls (that is, capsized by a gust of wind).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just look at the records of the Leda class (Trincomalee in game).  It was often recorded as a very not seaworthy ship.   It had to have careful loading of its ballast and an experienced captain to keep it from foundering in heavy seas.   This is why that ship has additional heeling over other ships.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, never heard of that. Like all Sané-type 18-pounder frigates, french or british, they needed to be trimmed carefully to get the best performance out of them, but that´s it.

The only other complaints about the Ledas were poor stowing capacity - quelle surprise! - and less-than-ideal weatherliness.

Like maturin said, they were considered very stiff and seaworthy ships, albeit wet.

Edited by Malachi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ain't if funny how videogame mechanics swish around like backwash into the community's understanding of history?

I get a twinge of guilt everytime someone posts something like: "after all, in light breezes the bigger ships should be slower than little ones." After all, that's the game-specific oversimplification I advocated in the first place.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×