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rediii

Thickness

Thickness  

64 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Thickness too big still? (not changed but tested more)

    • yes
      49
    • no
      16


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39 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Agreed but they have to make 1st rates more killable, right now its a joke.

Otherwise small nations without Victory marks have no chance.

 

Its also very boring to only penetrate enemy ship within 50 meters

Then what advantage would a very expensive 1st rate have over a cheap 2nd rate at that point?

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1 minute ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

Then what advantage would a very expensive 1st rate have over a cheap 2nd rate at that point?

More crew, more HP and more firepower.

And I dont mind having more thickness on 1st rates compared to 2nd rates, I just want to be able to pen them at a reasonable range and angle

Edited by Jon Snow lets go

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2 minutes ago, Cornelis Tromp said:

Then what advantage would a very expensive 1st rate have over a cheap 2nd rate at that point?

I had a 1v1 today. Santi vs victory. After 1.5 hours both ships were at 75% hp and full sail.

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45 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Going with a small number of heavy ships in 2.400 BR portbattles has a healthy impact on game. It enables nations with a small playerbase to be successful in PB as well. Not the highest numbers of rvr captains counts in those small battles but the highest skills. Thickness is a good and necessary tool to guarantee that smaller nations can beat bigger nations and built up their countries to compete on the long run.

Weak ships only help the three biggest nations to defend their access to Victory marks. Finally everybody looses. The small nations have no chance even in PBs with low BR, so they refuse to fight the big nations. Their playerbase gets bored and leaves the game. If you wanna have PBs with high numbers of ships, you can focus on high BR ports. High Variety in PBs doesn't mean only high numbers of players but PBs with low numbers as well.

I'm a bit sceptical on this one. I see two problems. 2400 BR will always be able to get screened out easily - so it's a numbers thingy again. And with a very limited amount of ships (e.g. it's of more use to bring in biggies but numbers to a 2400 BR pb) the game favours elitism. Basically thats not a problem - but to train new people these pb's aren't of any use - assuming both parties wanna go for the win. True one could argue: take bigger ports then. Problem: new or unskilled players shouldn't learn pbing in 1sts - at least in my opinion. With the current vm system it is even more difficult for small nations to go for ports bigger than 4800 BR. I mean how often is a nation able to rebuild about 8 1sts fully pb fitted.

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8 minutes ago, Palatinose said:

I'm a bit sceptical on this one. I see two problems. 2400 BR will always be able to get screened out easily - so it's a numbers thingy again. And with a very limited amount of ships (e.g. it's of more use to bring in biggies but numbers to a 2400 BR pb) the game favours elitism. Basically thats not a problem - but to train new people these pb's aren't of any use - assuming both parties wanna go for the win. True one could argue: take bigger ports then. Problem: new or unskilled players shouldn't learn pbing in 1sts - at least in my opinion. With the current vm system it is even more difficult for small nations to go for ports bigger than 4800 BR. I mean how often is a nation able to rebuild about 8 1sts fully pb fitted.

A 2400 BR PB has usually two First Rates. The rest is Wasa and Mortar Brigs. You're not able to conquer the circles with only four 1. Rates. They would be forced to split and could be killed separately by smaller ships then. There is always a slot for less experienced players to join and train their skills. Elitism is a problem of leadership in clans not of the game mechanic.

Screening is already a handicap. No reason to make it even more difficult by forcing them into high numbers inside the PB.

Edited by Graf Bernadotte

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I would say just nerf nerf nerf, don't remove anything. 7% and 5%, could be 5% and 3%, but the main issue is the wood it self imo.

Could be fun to give thickness upgrades a penalty, like reduced crew! Would make it instant less attractive, at least to stack!    

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i don't know if it really is an issue have anyone tried stacking penetration mods to see if they can penetrate a first rate with thickness mods on it ? i would say the bigger issue is that you can repair so much is battle, back when you only had 1 repair thickness was not a issue and if it is a issue just nerf it like tiedeman says.

and redii if your argument is that it is unrealistic im looking forward to your post about mortar brigs =)  

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9 minutes ago, Rune said:

i don't know if it really is an issue have anyone tried stacking penetration mods to see if they can penetrate a first rate with thickness mods on it ? i would say the bigger issue is that you can repair so much is battle, back when you only had 1 repair thickness was not a issue and if it is a issue just nerf it like tiedeman says.

and redii if your argument is that it is unrealistic im looking forward to your post about mortar brigs =)  

Its not easy to hit with mortars. Why am I forced now to post things which others dont like? Make a thread and a poll its not hard.

Rattlesnake bowfigure is already standard.

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

Its not easy to hit with mortars. Why am I forced now to post things which others dont like? Make a thread and a poll its not hard.

Rattlesnake bowfigure is already standard.

it should be impossible to hit a moving ship with a mortar ship except from blind luck, and i think this is what klooth is talking about we all know sweden has amazing mortar captains and you use them very well so why would ague against your own interest.

back to the point don't you think that the repairs are the underlying issue behind thickness because you get the feeling your not doing any kinda meaningful damage to your enemy when he can just keep repairing and getting the full bonus if his thickness back ?

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Increase hull and rig rep cooldown like they did with rum. You shouldnt be able to sail like an asshole knowing you can just repair thousands of hp. Cant buff pen mods or demasting would get out of control. Nerf thickness or add a penalty.

Edited by Potemkin

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Remove most mods, upgrades and rebalance the rest.

 

Or the devs should introduce strong hull bonus again on top of the other thickness mods.

Trying something a second time is not unusual here.

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Frigates should not be in a linefight. They are built for open world roaming and hunting traders/lone ships.

I quote from wikipedia here:

  Quote

In the 17th century, this term was used for any warship built for speed and maneuverability, the description often used being "frigate-built". These could be warships carrying their principal batteries of carriage-mounted guns on a single deck or on two decks (with further smaller carriage-mounted guns usually carried on the forecastle and quarterdeck of the vessel). The term was generally used for ships too small to stand in the line of battle, although early line-of-battle ships were frequently referred to as frigates when they were built for speed.

In the 18th century, the term referred to ships that were usually as long as a ship of the line and were square-rigged on all three masts (full rigged), but were faster and with lighter armament, used for patrolling and escort. In the definition adopted by the British Admiralty, they were rated ships of at least 28 guns, carrying their principal armaments upon a single continuous deck — the upper deck — while ships of the line possessed two or more continuous decks bearing batteries of guns.

Frigates were never designed to fight SoL lines. So Thickness and frigates have nothing to do with this discussion. Lineships have to slug it out. If you start using ships in fights where the other has advantage (lone SOL vs frigates or Frigates vs SoL line) you lose. 

If you start nerfing thickness. the insane repair builds/boost from northern (master) carpenters and bovenwiinds speed refit might as well be nerfed. Or else you get eternal running and slugging games.

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On 5.1.2018 at 3:11 PM, Cornelis Tromp said:

After you lose an advantage. So gitgud.

Cant delete the quote on smartphone. But btw I also made a topic about cartagena upgrades right after it got implemented 

Bump so topic is seen by devs

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Yardarm to yardarm (literally scraping hulls) with another l'ocean, full broadside-17 pens. (Without charge active but had a 5% pen bonus). Ill deal with it but is this what you guys are aiming for? I dont know the build of the enemy but the fact that its possible to attain that level of thickness is uh, odd. 

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4 hours ago, Potemkin said:

Yardarm to yardarm (literally scraping hulls) with another l'ocean, full broadside-17 pens. (Without charge active but had a 5% pen bonus). Ill deal with it but is this what you guys are aiming for? I dont know the build of the enemy but the fact that its possible to attain that level of thickness is uh, odd. 

its just stupid, nothing else

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