Vernon Merrill Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1. The Bahamas. The great equalizer. PvP marks with affordable ships for newer players. 2. Don’t sail what you can’t afford to lose. Why nearly EVERY new player thinks they need to pilot a 4th and up is beyond me. You don’t have the skills yet. You’re just gonna end up donating it. 3. Yes, sailing solo in this game is currently extremely dangerous/difficult. A static state of eternal war means nearly every other player you see outside of your “safe zone” probably wants to kill you. 2 and 3 require a player mindset change for many. Those willing enjoy the game it seems. Those who don’t get frustrated. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said: 2. Don’t sail what you can’t afford to lose. Why nearly EVERY new player thinks they need to pilot a 4th and up is beyond me. You don’t have the skills yet. You’re just gonna end up donating it. This is what people are doing - they can't afford to loose their Wasas and 1st rates, so they don't sail them. Since then they can't match other Wasas, they don't sail at all. Since it's a designated ship for PB's, they don't want to participate in PB's. That's the way it is now, at least for many people I spoke to. Some of them fight in RvR and PvP, however they get only a few PvP marks per month. Eg. Brits with their 6 L'Oceans didn't want to fight our force of 7 players in Pavels and Vasas near Conception yesterday. They had superior force, yet they probably feared they can loose 1 or 2 1st rates they couldn't replace. The result of ship restriction is LESS PvP and RvR, not more. Anyone willing to set a staged PB or PvP in affordable ships, please PM me and we'll make it happen. This way maybe people will be able to fight in ships they can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleader Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 33 minutes ago, Hethwill said: Some guys really like the "truck simulation". Happens in all games like this. Even in ED, which has extreme similarities. But then Leonard Nimoy station would never have been built without them. Ever. ( and it took months ) So, what is different ? We stand in the middle, neither this nor that. They Dont. Basic Game Design. People Play for : Exploration in terms of finding new stuff (not necessarily places but new stuff in General) Archievement in germs of being the richest and besting all Game Quests etc etc Social Contacts so Play with Friends and be Part of a Community. Or for Action. So Fight with other Players or whatever offers Adrenalin. You wont be the Richest etc if you have to give all your stuff you grind to the PvPers in your Clan. PvE Players in Clans in this Game are Slaves that Grind and usually Leave the Game after maybe a Year at Best 9 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said: 1. The Bahamas. The great equalizer. PvP marks with affordable ships for newer players. 2. Don’t sail what you can’t afford to lose. Why nearly EVERY new player thinks they need to pilot a 4th and up is beyond me. You don’t have the skills yet. You’re just gonna end up donating it. 3. Yes, sailing solo in this game is currently extremely dangerous/difficult. A static state of eternal war means nearly every other player you see outside of your “safe zone” probably wants to kill you. 2 and 3 require a player mindset change for many. Those willing enjoy the game it seems. Those who don’t get frustrated. 1. Ganking and Sealclubbing Zone you mean. I have nowhere else been killed in Basic Cutters and other Mini Ships that often like there... 2. So basicly. If your a New Player dont Sail anything but Basic Cutter or just Quit the Game 3. Not nearly.... 4. Then the Game Sux. Small Info. Players play for Fun. Not to do work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 “2 and 3 require a player mindset change for many. Those willing enjoy the game it seems. Those who don’t get frustrated. “ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iroquois Confederacy Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 There is a TON of ship traffic out there. 500 players on average at any given time, and maybe 10 are in Wasas. Here's the issue: All that ship traffic is hidden away behind magical safe zones. I can sail for hours and see nothing, and come through a safe zone in some rinky-dink territory and see half a dozen players. The solution to Wasas being OP is, bizarrely, removing the handholding. Many players sail for PvP. Right now, the only PvP is against other players looking for PvP, so it is an arms race. Heaviest ship with a bit of maneuverability and speed wins. That's the Wasa. If PvP is opened up more, people won't be sailing just for other players looking for PvP, a la Naval Action: Legends. They will be "ganking" to use the pejorative term that is so often tossed about as if it meant anything. By removing or reworking protection zones, and by making the economy actually matter again (every non NPC ship sailed should have actual planks and canvas), suddenly people will be out hunting. People will be out hunting the hunters. Task forces will be out trying to sweep up coast guards. The game breathes again. That's all that needs to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 minute ago, Sunleader said: They Dont. Basic Game Design. People Play for : Exploration in terms of finding new stuff (not necessarily places but new stuff in General) Archievement in germs of being the richest and besting all Game Quests etc etc Social Contacts so Play with Friends and be Part of a Community. Or for Action. So Fight with other Players or whatever offers Adrenalin. You wont be the Richest etc if you have to give all your stuff you grind to the PvPers in your Clan. PvE Players in Clans in this Game are Slaves that Grind and usually Leave the Game after maybe a Year at Best 1. Ganking and Sealclubbing Zone you mean. I have nowhere else been killed in Basic Cutters and other Mini Ships that often like there... 2. So basicly. If your a New Player dont Sail anything but Basic Cutter or just Quit the Game 3. Not nearly.... 4. Then the Game Sux. Small Info. Players play for Fun. Not to do work Ok, bye. You clearly seem to not enjoy the game as designed. The devs clearly have a game design THEY want to produce. It clearly is not for everyone. Do you have any stuff I can have before you leave? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 They do. In every group i've been, all fairly small, there's always at least one fellow that all he does talk about is crafting, production buildings, good trading ports, moving stuff, etc. Their mindset is economics, not the combat. Collaboration between different playstyles is the key in a game that involves everything. Trade fuels war fuels trade. That's a dutch saying from the age of sail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwood Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 That is why random ships need to disappear from ports, that is why we need a global market for crafted ships,where everyone can see what ship can be bought, in which port. A market where anyone can set up a contract for a ship. Instead of having Delivery Missions, which make no sense, and probably nobody is doing them. There is no motivation to craft ships at all atm, because money has no real value, so in this global market i need to be able demanding whatever i want for my crafted ship, which i am selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Sunleader said: A Game that can only be Played by being the Slave of some Labour Camp named *Clan* is not a Game worth playing We once had a nice Constant Playerbase of 1000 to 2000 People Online in the Afternoon on a Single Server. Now we got what ? 300 to 500 People in the Afternoon ? Take a Hint Guys. You don't have to be a slave to a clan. I played on EU all the way up to the merge with one pirate that I solo played and with none of my alts support. I stayed in 5th rates and below and used cheap captured shisp. Just like a pirate would do. Got tons of PvP and I lost a lot of ships. I don't let folks know that char's name cause it was my off clan fun time. SO you dont have to be a slave to nothing. That is the wrong attitude folks got about clans and solo play. They think they can't compete with the big clans. Well you can't in RvR cause that is based off Clans, but you sure as hell can do PvP in the OW, you just got to hunt smart. As for the numbers the game was new and got a lot of players on it, but those numbers dropped fast to more the core players that stick around. Many games have these spikes when they come out even if they aren't fully released. So stop trying to compare it to those numbers when it went live on steam. Will we every have numbers like that again, maybe when it releases, but I'm going to be the game will remain in the 500-1000 range at most. Hell when it was 1000 I hated it, you couldn't even get out of your dock and piss off your deck without getting ganked by half a dozen ships. It was just way to crowded back than before they split and did the mirror server. That was the point I switched over to the US server for the smaller population so I can enjoy the game more. 2 hours ago, vazco said: This is what people are doing - they can't afford to loose their Wasas and 1st rates, so they don't sail them. Since then they can't match other Wasas, they don't sail at all. Since it's a designated ship for PB's, they don't want to participate in PB's. That's the way it is now, at least for many people I spoke to. Some of them fight in RvR and PvP, however they get only a few PvP marks per month. Eg. Brits with their 6 L'Oceans didn't want to fight our force of 7 players in Pavels and Vasas near Conception yesterday. They had superior force, yet they probably feared they can loose 1 or 2 1st rates they couldn't replace. The result of ship restriction is LESS PvP and RvR, not more. Anyone willing to set a staged PB or PvP in affordable ships, please PM me and we'll make it happen. This way maybe people will be able to fight in ships they can afford. And that is a player Mindset they need to get over.....in my old clan we went out in what ever we had and fought. WE FOUGHT TO WIN. We where 9 times out of 10 out number but we fought to the last man. This started to get us where we had port battles 13 vs 21, 16 vs 25, 19 vs 25 and one thing you see in all we lost very few ships and in the other team would loose almost all there ships. Cause we FOUGHT against the odds and they where so scared to loose there store bought ships....not even there good ships back in port they end up running as soon as we sunk a ship or two. If they stop worring about pixals and just come out and fight like there is no tomorrow they might actually win more battles. Though your never going to change those types. They are the same guys that showed up to all the empty port battles for combat marks, but when you had to fight other players was no where to be seen. No rewards is going to change that mentality so why should they be rewarded for what other players do when they go out and try there hardest and win battles? That is why I honestly hate VM system if it goes to all folks of a nation. It should only got to those that attend port battles. I honestly think every one that goes to a port battle even the lowest nation should get one VM at the end of the week. Than do the top nation rewards if your going to pay out all in that nation. That way even the smallest clan that fights over some shallow waters ports gets rewareded for trying to fight. Thus rewarding the guys that play the game and not the guys that sit in the ports and do nothing while there largest nation does all the hard work (or alts that are put in those nations to collect the points). 2 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said: “2 and 3 require a player mindset change for many. Those willing enjoy the game it seems. Those who don’t get frustrated. “ I would add in one more group, the ones that want every thing just given to them. These are the guys that never play on hard mode, they always use cheat codes and they just don't want to play a game. They want to rush to the top and get the reward. They skip all the side quest and once they max out they stop playing. Ok maybe that is a few diffrent types, but if they don't want to do the work than I don't think they should get the reward. The other thing guys some of the ships that are now going to be under RvR/PvP rewards of the PvP Marks are not as good as folks think, once a good number of those ships are destroyed you will see more and more folks getting back into ships that wasn't being used as much. I have yet to redeem any of my Wasa's for that reason, pluss it's on my pirate char who won't use them. I'll save them for later to trade them for other things like say....>>COPPER PLATING<< or something else I might want. That same char has over half a dozen L'oceans most of them where captured in port battles as I use the Victory. I'll save them for a day when I need them for the clan or to trade for something. I bet you folks will be willing to trade later for good mods and books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said: And that is a player Mindset they need to get over.....in my old clan we went out in what ever we had and fought. WE FOUGHT TO WIN. We where 9 times out of 10 out number but we fought to the last man. This started to get us where we had port battles 13 vs 21, 16 vs 25, 19 vs 25 and one thing you see in all we lost very few ships and in the other team would loose almost all there ships. Cause we FOUGHT against the odds and they where so scared to loose there store bought ships....not even there good ships back in port they end up running as soon as we sunk a ship or two. If they stop worring about pixals and just come out and fight like there is no tomorrow they might actually win more battles. Though your never going to change those types. They are the same guys that showed up to all the empty port battles for combat marks, but when you had to fight other players was no where to be seen. No, they're not. The same guys fought all the time against the odds before the patch. It's people like you who should get over their mindset. Game should be friendly to new players, as every new player has the same issues. You can't expect for a new player to "change his attitude". You need a game to give him a fighting chance against veterans, or he will leave the game and focus on something else. We as a clan fight against odds, and we try to overcome obstracles. The last patch is the biggest obstracle yet. A few more like these and we won't have any new people sailing with us, despite our efforts. Just veterans, killing large groups "against the odds" and making them leave due to lack of ships on their side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Btw, in last 2 days we captured 3 first rates and 3 Wasas, sinking many more ships. Great for us. Do you know what was the reaction of two brits who lost their Santis? First they asked to join our nation, then they decided to stop playing after all. Those were most likely their last 1st rates. Edited December 31, 2017 by vazco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iroquois Confederacy Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It might be that it is too easy to level up. We know thee are a ton of max-rank players who never did anything but farm missions, build an uber ship, and think they are unstoppable. When they are disabused of that notion, they have to decide if they overestimated their own abilities, or if the game is broken. Usually, they favor the latter. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrago Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said: It might be that it is too easy to level up. We know thee are a ton of max-rank players who never did anything but farm missions, build an uber ship, and think they are unstoppable. When they are disabused of that notion, they have to decide if they overestimated their own abilities, or if the game is broken. Usually, they favor the latter. This is true. I got almost to Admiral before having to face the fact that I really didn't know how to fight another player effectively. Hell, even tho now I can sort of hold my own once in the PVP battle, I still don't think I grasp the concept of getting the initial tag right. As with almost every "problem" folks point out in game, the solution is more population -- more Captains of all ranks and skills -- so that the new player wanting (or being forced) to PVP has some chances of meeting similarly experienced peers as well as meeting the PVP gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesore Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Many players just level up fast because they want a big ship ... making the grind longer will not make them magically become able sailors. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleader Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 4 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said: Ok, bye. You clearly seem to not enjoy the game as designed. The devs clearly have a game design THEY want to produce. It clearly is not for everyone. Do you have any stuff I can have before you leave? I got some Stuff. But I somehow dont feel like YOU should get it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, vazco said: Btw, in last 2 days we captured 3 first rates and 3 Wasas, sinking many more ships. Great for us. Do you know what was the reaction of two brits who lost their Santis? First they asked to join our nation, then they decided to stop playing after all. Those were most likely their last 1st rates. Rule no 1: dont sail what you cant afford to lose 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vernon Merrill Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Don’t try any logic, Liq.... apparently, every new captain should get a shiny new Vic and have a 50/50 shot of beating anyone... Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleader Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Liq said: Rule no 1: dont sail what you cant afford to lose TLDR Rule no 1: New Player should not Play this Game. And if they do they should in any Case never Attempt to do PvP. And then you guys are wondering why the Population is getting ever smaller and PvP getting ever less in the World. Edited January 1, 2018 by Sunleader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said: apparently, every new captain should get a shiny new Vic and have a 50/50 shot of beating anyone... Unbelievable. You completely didn't understand me. Right now you (and from what I know your whole clan) has following advantage over a similar group of new players from a new clan: you have rare books, for which new guys will have to grind for over half a year of active gameplay (or more, since they don't have means of entering epic events now) you have an experience, which allows you to get 20+ PvP marks on an active day. They don't have this experience, they can average maybe 1 mark per day for first half a year you have PvP books unlocked, which new player won't get until he will start winning with more experienced people who have all the books, refits and PvP-based ships you can choose any ship based on changing meta, as you have most of them already unlocked. New player has to spend a huge amount of time to unlock them at this moment, since you have means of getting PvP marks, or taking ships from enemy, you can sail 1st rates and Wasa. New player can't spend PvP marks for this if he plans to get PvP books you can access RvR by having access to Wasa and 1st rates. New clans don't have access to those ships, unless they're in a winning nation. Grinding hostility in something else than 1st rate is much more tiresome, while fighting in PB against Wasas and 1sts in Agas and Bucs puts you in a disadvantage you have Cartagena and other refits. New clans can't access those resources without contacts or alts in other nations. On top of this, you have an experience which will allow you to beat a new player in an even ship 10 out of 10 times. An advantage of experience is a good thing. All the other stuff is just plain wrong. If we want to have new players joining, we should lower the time which would allow for a new player to fight you or me on even terms. 3 months of grinding to get even chance is ok. 12-24 months due to all unique books and their bonuses, as well as bonuses of PvP-based ships, is not. @admin if you want for anyone to join your game on release, I would advice you to address steep bonus access curve, as well as curve of access for PvP-based ships (since player first has to get PvP books anyway). It's even more important than tutorials. A fix which would make this half so important (yet still a problem) would be to limit bonuses from all refits and books by half. We would be closer to skill based game then, rather than this: Edited January 1, 2018 by vazco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) Adding up those bonuses, it's very easy to have a scenario like this: Clan A - has 11 experienced players. They appear for hostility grind in 11 first-rates, equipped in large part with: Carta/Navy structure Carpenters, Carpenter reports, gunnery encyclopedia and ship handling They finish hostility mission against 1st rates in 30 minutes. On PB they appear in Wasas and 1sts. They can balance BR limit with larger ships, since they can afford to loose them. They can cover every battle with up to 7200 BR. Every battle that they start, they either score some PvP marks, or they win uncontested. Clan B - has 11 unexperienced new players. They appear on hostility grind with 11 Pavels/Bucs, with standard refits - no Cartagena and Navy Structure. They don't sail other ships, since they can't afford to loose them. They finish hostility mission in 1h30 minutes (since they have to repair after every battle). If someone joins their mission with 11 first-rates, they are screwed, with no chance to sink anyone in this battle. If they spot a group of 11 first-rates doing hostility, they can hardly counter this with 11 Pavels/Bucs. On PB they appear in Agas and Bucs. They can field only 4950 BR. Due to lack of bonuses, ships and experience, almost every battle most of them sink, and they don't sink anyone. Even if they damage someone, he simply runs away and repairs. They don't get PvP marks. After 10 lost battles clan B has issues with morale. They probably limit RvR. Now, the whole trick is to make this game allow for guys from Clan B to actually mean something - to let them sink eg. 20% of ships of a more experienced enemy from time to time. To allow them to have even ships and bonuses in a reasonable time. They will still need someone experienced to teach them, however with all the nerfing that they get for being new, they stand no chance - even if they had equal skill. Edited January 1, 2018 by vazco 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Modules are the devil in the current form, as you well put it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 On 12/31/2017 at 11:24 AM, Liq said: Get a grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Hethwill said: Modules are the devil in the current form, as you well put it. You're right. Modules are the devil for a long time. PvP ships are becoming even a more serious devil right now. Not everyone sees this yet, however I can see players quitting due to lack of RvR-fit PvP-based ships every day (from outside of our clan more often than from our clan). Edited January 1, 2018 by vazco 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 hours ago, Sunleader said: TLDR Rule no 1: New Player should not Play this Game. And if they do they should in any Case never Attempt to do PvP. And then you guys are wondering why the Population is getting ever smaller and PvP getting ever less in the World. Go out pvping in disposable ships ffs... you also dont spend all your salary on partying/drinks/whatever and then wonder why you dont have any money left to pay the bills Or maybe you do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunleader Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 8 minutes ago, Liq said: Go out pvping in disposable ships ffs... you also dont spend all your salary on partying/drinks/whatever and then wonder why you dont have any money left to pay the bills Or maybe you do No Offense but if you want to have Targets that you can massacre with no Resistance I would ask you to just throw some Clay Doves into the Air. Not Tell new Players to try and Fight your Assault Rifles with Knifes... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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