Remove Ship Notes for PvP Marks.

[Sunleader]

The Ship Notes for Only PvP Marks are an very Bad Idea.

For a New Player. Beating an Player thats been doing PvP is already next to Impossible thanks to Tactics and Game Knowledge as well as Experience in PvP.

And now this has become even more Impossible. Because Surviving in PvP needs you to have proper Ships. And now the Experienced PvPers especially the Gankers and Seal Clubbers who get PvP Marks. Will be Equipped with such Proper Ships in a Woodtype of their Choice.

Meanwhile New PvPers have to somehow draw a Lucky Streak to get a Crafter who got the Ships available. They cant reach any Proper Ships because they have no Chance of really Beating a PvP Player And no way to get PvP Marks unless they go Sealclubbing or Ganking.

 

Ship Notes are Essential for New PvP Players to have any Chance of getting a Foot into the Door.

Hiding it behind PvP Marks which these Players wont really get their Hands on. Results in Newer Players to be Highly Discouraged not to do PvP at all. Because they just get Clubbed all the Time in their Inferior Ships which on Top are so Insanely Expensive that they have to Grind more than 2-3 Hours for a Single Ship halfwat decent Ship.

 

 

 

I Assume the Idea was to Encourage PvP by giving the Valuable Ship Notes for PvP. Thus getting new Players to PvP by luring them with Rewards.

But currently it is having the Opposite Effect. Because thanks to this. The only Early Entry New Players had to Compete in PvP has been Taken Away from them.

[Liq]

28 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

have to Grind more than 2-3 Hours for a Single Ship halfwat decent Ship.

That argument is just plain wrong. Look at what it takes to craft a Teak Trincomalee.

And a 5th rate fleet mission solo in indefatig (about 30 minutes) gets you like 150k ?

Get a grip.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Liq

[Sir Texas Sir]

You want elite content than you need to do elite content to get it.  That or pay for it.  Every other MMO is like this. You want that Elite dungeon gear you need to do the Elite Misison.  That or pay some one else to do it for you.  There is more than one way to get PvP marks.  You can buy it, you can PvP on the OW or you can do RvR.  SO nothing is being keep away from players.  If you love PvE grind than trade those rare mods that you get dropped for something that can only be gotten by PvP marks.   It actually now gives the guys that do nothing but PvP something to trade with to get the PvE grind equipment you need for OW/RvR PvP.

And a new player should not be jumping into a fight on equal grounds as an Vet player.  Even with the exact ship or set up or even the Vet using a store bought ship, he's prob going to own that new player.  They should be learning the game and getting there skills up not trying to take on the top tier guys.

Oh and most of my PvP marks have been gained in ships that don't cost PvP marks.  Hell most of them where from sinking other players in the shallows  so far.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[jodgi]

22 minutes ago, Liq said:

Get a grip.

Also, you really can make a competitive ship with with grinding cash and random loot off OW bots. That's actually one of my insurmountable problems with the game: You have to PVE grind to get competitive stuff.

PvE Lords (and I'm not saying OP is part of that club) will cry over PvP rewards, but the game is already 90% geared towards PVE, are they not happy until it's >99%? I would certainly not put it past them...

[dagdriver]

Yea, well fine. game is 90% geared towards PvE, dont cry over PvP rewards, bla.bla.bla. etc.

But from THIS casual players point of view, once again content has been locked behind hours of grinding. Grinding I do not have time to do. Getting decent ships from Combat marks was a neat way to quickly replace losses. Now I will have to make do with store bought junk.

Yes friendly clan mates will help, but there is a limit to how many casuals the few dedicated players can carry.

I have both a family and a full time job. I do not need NA to become the 2nd job.

Sure You are the cool ELITE players, and everything is too easy. *clap* *clap* 

Have fun.

 

[Sunleader]

So PvP Fitted 4th and 5th Rates are now Elite Endgame Content....

And a Ship requiring massive Transportation, Knowledge and Prior Building Work to Craft needless to say massive Investment of Time into getting the Receipt is now "Easy to Obtain" Ship....

 

Sorry but Guys do you even read the Bullcrab your Spouting there ????

If your that far in Crafting that you can easily Build a Custom Wood Trinco your already far beyond where you even care about PvP Marks or Ship Notes. Because then you can Build anything yourself anyways.

 

 

But oh Well. Why did I even Try.

You guys just Continue to make PvP more and more Impossible. Thus resulting in less and less Players doing PvP at all.

Have Fun sitting there with your "Elite Ships" alone. Needing Hours to Find someone to actually Fight with your Elite Ship cause no New Players ever get a Foot into the Door on this Game.

[jodgi]

2 minutes ago, dagdriver said:

Sure You are the cool ELITE players, and everything is too easy. *clap* *clap* 

I sure am a try-hard wannabe ELITE player, but everything is not easy. Well, nothing is easier than grinding bots for days, weeks and months to get the books and rare loot drop upgrades. For me it's impossibly hard to get competitive gear, I'm unable to motivate myself to dredge an ocean of shit (PVE) for that nugget of gold (competitive PvP).

Now a bone has been thrown at a small portion of the player base and people lose their mind over it. <shrugs>

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I sure am a try-hard wannabe ELITE player, but everything is not easy. Well, nothing is easier than grinding bots for days, weeks and months to get the books and rare loot drop upgrades. For me it's impossibly hard to get competitive gear, I'm unable to motivate myself to dredge an ocean of shit (PVE) for that nugget of gold (competitive PvP).

Now a bone has been thrown at a small portion of the player base and people lose their mind over it. <shrugs>

There is no Bone.

What they Threw is an Vinegar Drowned Piece of Cloth. That will make sure that no New Player will ever get anywhere when he tries to Start doing PvP.

 

Ships being Available for Combat Marks so far. Meant that if you made a Few Missions in PvE you could get a Ship to do PvP assuming you had the Rank for it.

 

Now with these Ships no longer being available before your already a Veteran in PvP you wont be able to get into PvP before your High Rank and have a Full Ship Building Chain in Place or Alternatively have Grinded for Money for Weeks to be able to afford Ships for a few Million Gold.

 

 

See Guys.

If your a Veteran Player already well Established in the Game. Having a Shipyard, Outposts and all the Crafting Receipts to Build Big Stuff like that.

You dont need much time or effort to Build such Ships. After all you already Spend Weeks of Prior Work to build up this Chain and reduce the Per Ship Time you need to a Minimum.

Needless to say at this Point thanks to Selling Ships you also have Abundance of Money Available.

 

But as a New Player you dont have any of this.

You have neither the Knowledge nor the Production Chains in Place.

You make about 150k Gold per Mission you Run. So that PvP Ship in the Shop for 1-1.5 Million Gold.

For you means that you have to Run 7-11 (Thanks to Taxes) Missions at an Pace of about 20 Minutes each. To just get ONE Shot at doing PvP.

So basicly 1-2 Hours Work (assuming you have a good Pace) for just 1 Attempt at PvP.

 

 

And then you Guys wonder that you cant Find any PvP ???

No Offense but do you really think Potential New PvP Players would Grind for 2 Hours just to get a Ship that they will likely Lose right away anyways ????

Are you really that Dense that you dont realize that your effectively Killing any Chance that New Players might ever find any Fun in Doing PvP ????

 

[jodgi]

25 minutes ago, dagdriver said:

But from THIS casual players point of view, once again content has been locked behind hours of grinding. Grinding I do not have time to do.

I could have written this. We may diverge a bit with the rest.

 

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

If your that far in Crafting that you can easily Build a Custom Wood Trinco your already far beyond where you even care about PvP Marks or Ship Notes. Because then you can Build anything yourself anyways.

I have two toons at crafting level 50 and one close. I wish your statement was true. In a competitive perspective crafting means nothing and I dislike that. Take a look around in the shops to see what the economy really revolves around; it's the upgrades.

A custom wood trinco means little. A custom wood trinco with copper, art of ship handling and those other things at the end of a terrible pve grind is something else entirely.

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I could have written this. We may diverge a bit with the rest.

 

I have two toons at crafting level 50 and one close. I wish your statement was true. In a competitive perspective crafting means nothing and I dislike that. Take a look around in the shops to see what the economy really revolves around; it's the upgrades.

A custom wood trinco means little. A custom wood trinco with copper, art of ship handling and those other things at the end of a terrible pve grind is something else entirely.

 

Thing is Mate.

Then we need to have Upgrades easier Available.

Not Make Ships even Harder to Obtain.

 

If you say the Bar to actually Join PvP is already way too High.

Than what sense does it make to Put it up even Higher ????

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But as a New Player you dont have any of this.

You have neither the Knowledge nor the Production Chains in Place.

You make about 150k Gold per Mission you Run. So that PvP Ship in the Shop for 1-1.5 Million Gold.

For you means that you have to Run 7-11 (Thanks to Taxes) Missions at an Pace of about 20 Minutes each. To just get ONE Shot at doing PvP.

I have been dead scared of this since the economy was introduced into OW. I think it's a terrible idea to have a fun-tax (grind) to participate in PvP. It's super important to the sandbox/eco dudes.

Most new guys won't get to the point where they worry about PvP rewards, they will see these extremely expensive upgrades in the capital shops, though.

 

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Thing is Mate.

Then we need to have Upgrades easier Available.

Not Make Ships even Harder to Obtain.

 

If you say the Bar to actually Join PvP is already way too High.

Than what sense does it make to Put it up even Higher ????

We completely and entirely agree.

PvP marks as a problem is like a drop of pee in the ocean as far as PvP motivation is concerned.

[Palatinose]

The ships are not any problem at all! If u are anew player, just ask in nation chat for a teak teak Trinc, Conny, Endymion. Fit them with Basic upgrades and they still are fine ships. 

Take some mates, sail to a capital or around la Tortue and have fun. Yes u will sink in the beginning. But those basic but still fine ships work pretty well. 

The basic skill books are also available without pvp marks. Optimized rudder powder monkeys carpenter. All fine stuff one can easily work with.

[victor]

45 minutes ago, jodgi said:

I sure am a try-hard wannabe ELITE player, but everything is not easy. Well, nothing is easier than grinding bots for days, weeks and months to get the books and rare loot drop upgrades. For me it's impossibly hard to get competitive gear, I'm unable to motivate myself to dredge an ocean of shit (PVE) for that nugget of gold (competitive PvP).

Now a bone has been thrown at a small portion of the player base and people lose their mind over it. <shrugs>

Your website on ship speeds is enough to make you elite. All the rest does not care! 

PS: patience is a virtue, also in games.

Edited December 31, 2017 by victor

[vazco]

We have many unexperienced or new people in PFK. The result after patch introduction is that after a meeting we had yesterday, 15 people logged onto TS. Only 5 left for PvP afterwards, rest decided they can't risk their ships, or that they don't have a chance in Agas and Pavels against Wasa's and 1st rates.

We captured 3 1st rates and 3 Wasas in last two days, sure. The end result though is that we could have 10-15 people PvP'ing, while we had 5. Those are facts, not assumptions. VM's have an exactly opposite effect to their goal.

PvP-based permits maybe could work if some nations didn't have an advantage of getting a free one or three 1st rates every week.

[staun]

I must say that I find it tough to see a solutions that fit all kind of player. We have hardcore pvp players, that says that this is a pvp server. (And they are right), Guys(like my self) that are softcore pvp players, who also like at bit of trading and pve(without to much risk), And then pve players, that is here because, well it is here the population is. Sometimes I think the game just should find out witch of the groups this game is for, develop the game in that direction. Not sure in the long run it benefits to try to please all. Yes it will cost players in the start. but find your segment and focus on this, I do belive in the end it will give the best game for those that play it. 

Does the game go in an direction  I dont like, well yes the I proberly will find a new game to play. Bet hey lets be honest. No game depend on one single player, at well no player only during a life time only play one single game.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, dagdriver said:

Yea, well fine. game is 90% geared towards PvE, dont cry over PvP rewards, bla.bla.bla. etc.

But from THIS casual players point of view, once again content has been locked behind hours of grinding. Grinding I do not have time to do. Getting decent ships from Combat marks was a neat way to quickly replace losses. Now I will have to make do with store bought junk.

Yes friendly clan mates will help, but there is a limit to how many casuals the few dedicated players can carry.

I have both a family and a full time job. I do not need NA to become the 2nd job.

Sure You are the cool ELITE players, and everything is too easy. *clap* *clap* 

Have fun.

 

Why do causal players deserve every thing that players that take time and play hard get?  If you want other content that is in game you need to do that content.  Many games it takes months or even years to max out.  Even than you don't get all the elite gear in game.  You have to do the elite/epic/legendary missions/events/dungeons to still get that content of the game. 

When a new DLC comes out does every one get it?  No just the folks that pay for it unless it's free. 

Do you get all that new content instantly in game?  No you have to actually play the game and do the things in the new content to reach that new stuff. It's not just instantly given to you.

I don't call myself an elite player, but I have over 7K hours in game on my main account but some of that is AFK, so lets go with 4K hours I have on the other char.  That means I have put a lot of time in this game so I have earned conent and gear through play.  Does that mean I should be given content I don't play?  No it shouldn't.  I no different than a player that only has 100 hours. If he wants PvP gear and he has the same chance as I do with so many hours, he has to do the PvP content of the game or pay some one else to do it for him.  It should not be just given to him cause he only puts in 1 hour here and there and doesn't have time to play all the content of the game.

I'm so sick of this entitlement mind set where folks think they should get every thing while doing nothing.  You want content you need to play that part of the game to get it.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 minutes ago, staun said:

I must say that I find it tough to see a solutions that fit all kind of player. We have hardcore pvp players, that says that this is a pvp server. (And they are right), Guys(like my self) that are softcore pvp players, who also like at bit of trading and pve(without to much risk), And then pve players, that is here because, well it is here the population is. Sometimes I think the game just should find out witch of the groups this game is for, develop the game in that direction. Not sure in the long run it benefits to try to please all. Yes it will cost players in the start. but find your segment and focus on this, I do belive in the end it will give the best game for those that play it. 

Does the game go in an direction  I dont like, well yes the I proberly will find a new game to play. Bet hey lets be honest. No game depend on one single player, at well no player only during a life time only play one single game.

Your not going to please every one, that is why this is not a participation trophy rewards.  If you want the content of part of the game you need to play it.  I play all parts of it. I PvE grind, I RvR, I PvP so I can get all that content and have all that gear.  Why should some one that only PvE's get the same content as I do when I play the whole game?

The server honestly needs to be called PvP/PvE as it has both content. It is not a pure PvP server as some games have, cause than it would have zero PvE content.  That is what the hard core PvP guys don't understand.  This is not a pure PvP server.  It's a PvP/PvE server with anther server that is pure PvE for those that don't want PvP.

[staun]

12 minutes ago, vazco said:

We have many unexperienced or new people in PFK. The result after patch introduction is that after a meeting we had yesterday, 15 people logged onto TS. Only 5 left for PvP afterwards, rest decided they can't risk their ships, or that they don't have a chance in Agas and Pavels against Wasa's and 1st rates.

We captured 3 1st rates and 3 Wasas in last two days, sure. The end result though is that we could have 10-15 people PvP'ing, while we had 5. Those are facts, not assumptions. VM's have an exactly opposite effect to their goal.

PvP-based permits maybe could work if some nations didn't have an advantage of getting a free one or three 1st rates every week.

We have the same problem in Dk/ng. But there is actually a simple solution to get ppl out and fight, and the same time have some fun. Arranged matches, with no fear of loosing the ship. You meet us in an arranged match. We have agreed on only fight on the ships that that can be bought from store with gold.(Those put in game from developers)- Do a 5-5 ore what number we agree on. A Frigat cost 100.000. All the have to do is one mission and they can afford it. 

I Know it may be a cheap shot. But if this it what it takes to get ppl startet, well I am actually fine with it.

[staun]

4 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Your not going to please every one, that is why this is not a participation trophy rewards.  If you want the content of part of the game you need to play it.  I play all parts of it. I PvE grind, I RvR, I PvP so I can get all that content and have all that gear.  Why should some one that only PvE's get the same content as I do when I play the whole game?

The server honestly needs to be called PvP/PvE as it has both content. It is not a pure PvP server as some games have, cause than it would have zero PvE content.  That is what the hard core PvP guys don't understand.  This is not a pure PvP server.  It's a PvP/PvE server with anther server that is pure PvE for those that don't want PvP.

And I dont disagree with you. The game is not going to please every one, that why I said the game should find its segment, even if it in the start will cost players. No surprise I not am a fan of the merge, and the global timezone. But that is a way to segment it, as Eu was. Devs now have chosen a global server. So I can live with it ore leave. The game just have to find its direction, and if it is a PvP/PvE game. The it is the direction. but be honest about it so players feedback can be on the thing that can give enough gameplay for that segment. Not the hardcore PvP PvE players. Just some time have the feeling, that the game try to please all groups.

[Hethwill]

I either have to buy the upgrades that the "grinding" crowd puts up for sale or I can't get them for I have no peace of mind crushing mindless bots. Rather be caught pants down and sunk by another player ( or players ).

That's how far it goes towards the solo/pve crowd controlling the market.

"WTS Cartagena Caulking Refit... 2 Victory marks" - like I saw yesterday. Of course everyone started laughing ... some solo/pve upgrade/book farmers are wise enough, others are just insane greedy.

The "hidden" part of it all is the collaborative communities that have both types of players having their fun. No one sees their plight and their guys that like pvp are always out there fitted for a fight.

[Sunleader]

A Game that can only be Played by being the Slave of some Labour Camp named *Clan* is not a Game worth playing

 

We once had a nice Constant Playerbase of 1000 to 2000 People Online in the Afternoon on a Single Server.

Now we got what ?

300 to 500 People in the Afternoon ?

Take a Hint Guys.

[Hethwill]

You understand that no one is a slave when they love the pve/crafting part but they still collaborate with their clan, right ?

Not hard, not hard at all  to play a multiplayer game along with other people.

[jodgi]

Just now, Hethwill said:

if they love the pve/crafting part

This is how I explain the diff between 1-2k players down to 4-500.

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This is how I explain the diff between 1-2k players down to 4-500.

Some guys really like the "truck simulation". Happens in all games like this. Even in ED, which has extreme similarities.

But then Leonard Nimoy station would never have been built without them. Ever. ( and it took months )

So, what is different ? We stand in the middle, neither this nor that.