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4 hours ago, Wraith said:

world where wind circles around like clockwork with no variability (except in battle instances where it magically stops, combined yet again with a different behavior in port battles...) now hurts the strategic game play we've come to appreciate

I sympathize with this bit. I tentatively think changing wind in instances is more bad than good.

I'm surprised with you not liking leeway, though. Feed me with a teaspoon: Why is it bad?

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Yeah, I'm fine if the battle wind veers around in the same 30 degree arc or something. But major wind changes (e.g., 90 to 135) should be rare.

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4 hours ago, jodgi said:

I sympathize with this bit. I tentatively think changing wind in instances is more bad than good.

I'm surprised with you not liking leeway, though. Feed me with a teaspoon: Why is it bad?

it's not realistic.  It feels like the ships have no keels at all.  

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23 minutes ago, Christendom said:

it's not realistic.  It feels like the ships have no keels at all.  

Ever looked at the keel of a first rate?

 

Leeway is probably exaggerated in this patch, but I can't measure it, so I'm not really sure.

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12 hours ago, jodgi said:

I sympathize with this bit. I tentatively think changing wind in instances is more bad than good.

I'm surprised with you not liking leeway, though. Feed me with a teaspoon: Why is it bad?

I actually do like the idea of leeway being in the simulation, despite it needing some tuning.

But like other choices the dev's have made over the years this one aspect now seems over-simulated while attention to other important details are ignored. All of these details, like say proper bathymetry and collision detection in battles, wind variability, repair dynamics, boarding, etc., etc., interact to create a simulation that either feels immersive at its best or cumbersome at its worst.

There are many, many compromises made in any simulation. Some of these might be technical and some might be for playability, and I feel that often when a technical hurdle is jumped the tendency is to let playability suffer. And the, "Ain't it cool what we built," factor gets in the way of asking, "Is it still fun to play?"

8 hours ago, maturin said:

Ever looked at the keel of a first rate?

Quite a fair point. :) I'd definitely like to see some of the numbers they are estimating for leeway calculations, it could be that they are quite fair, especially with the time compression we're working with, and that my intuition is being fooled... But the "feels" of the game and the way it interacts with combat across different ship types, especially along coast lines, seems a lot less "fun" that it was before.  This is the only reading I've done (quite interesting) on drift/leeway and it feels like we're probably operating with something like 20-50 cm/s (0.7-1.5 km/h or 0.4-1 kn) downwind drift on first rates, so possibly it's simulated accurately but it feels like we're losing playability.

http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA435435

 

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And just to add, compare wind-driven leeway to primarily wind-driven surface current speeds (which aren't in the "simulation"), which can further be modulated by tides, deep water currents, etc. and you might imagine that ship movements due to leeway are modulated quite a bit by other forces that aren't currently modeled:

 

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On 29/12/2017 at 4:50 PM, staun said:

I do hope the ambition is a bit higher than that. If not just *reset all patches and it is as beautiful as it was.

I do think you want, why els develop on it. And I do hope one of the ambitions is to make a game, that ppl would like to be part of.

My friend and I love it each time it gets more realistic.

We both started playing again post patch, and both love the roll, both love the fact that sailing is more important, both love the fact that battle sails are a good move now, and both love the fact that you really have to plan out where you are going to go, and that you now move slower than ever!

Keep it up devs and Happy New Year!

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I dont know why I keep feeling the compulsion to comment about this as the devs have already expressed their objective and considering alot of people here seem to agree with them at least until its implemented and feels broken. But perhaps its because I had high hopes for this game and that it, at this time, offers something other games dont, like large fleet battles and an OW contest. However when I take into consideration all the realism facts that could exist like tides and stealing wind, the game would become simply too annoying, especially stealing wind like this game needs any more reason to be a boarding game with what feels like an already existing OP de-masting system.

To me a good game is a balanced game, one that exists between realism and the arcade. To quote a dev earlier in this post "to try to please everybody you end up pleasing nobody, just proves that they dont understand that certain criteria of making a good game as it often falls somewhere in the middle, that line of acceptance of extreme and minimal tolerances to attract both types of players. There's no denying there are skillful players and noob's, so when it comes to a game that only appeals to the nautical percentage of the gaming population, when you make it to hard or annoying that it drives away the noobs well all of a sudden those large fleet battles become hard to fill due to falling interest and that then reflects in the veterans interest in the game. 

Personally I feel I should have left at the merger as perhaps a lot of global players should as the two time zones clearly dont relate, or express the skill of certain global clans that existed now they just idle away wishing they had the numbers they once had to even contemplate a port battle. I no longer play this game due to things like the leeside dynamics, it was the the last straw for me as I can see a game that most likely going to suffer the fate I have laid out above.

 

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I like the new sailing mechanic despite the frustration or time looting now involves - it does add depth.

What is most frustrating is the rapid wind movement during instances which at low speeds, especially close hauled, can counteract the adjustments we now have to make for leaway.

Moving forward:

1. Some tweaking of the impact of leaway at varying speeds and some improvement to the graphics to better reflect the impact on waves/wake would be nice.

2. Increase time a wreck is available to loot or allow looting of some items - books for example for longer - can't fish the cannons but can get some flotsome. Stuff like copper bottoms should be craftable again and refit based anyway.

3. Tweak the rapidity of wind change in instances so it moves a little slower and the variance in direction is less extreme most of the time with the odds of large swings in direction reduced, but still possible. 

4.An anchor option and possibly option to deploy boats - reducing crew for guns etc - a floating battery static defence needs an anchor.

5.An option to throw cargo and cannons overboard if beached on shallows!

Enjoy

ps A way of fixing rudder between neutral and full would be really good as well!

 

 

Edited by Rouleur
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2 hours ago, Rouleur said:

I like the new sailing mechanic despite the frustration or time looting now involves - it does add depth.

What is most frustrating is the rapid wind movement during instances which at low speeds, especially close hauled, can counteract the adjustments we now have to make for leaway.

Moving forward:

1. Some tweaking of the impact of leaway at varying speeds and some improvement to the graphics to better reflect the impact on waves/wake would be nice.

2. Increase time a wreck is available to loot or allow looting of some items - books for example for longer - can't fish the cannons but can get some flotsome. Stuff like copper bottoms should be craftable again and refit based anyway.

3. Tweak the rapidity of wind change in instances so it moves a little slower and the variance in direction is less extreme most of the time with the odds of large swings in direction reduced, but still possible. 

4.An anchor option and possibly option to deploy boats - reducing crew for guns etc - a floating battery static defence needs an anchor.

5.An option to throw cargo and cannons overboard if beached on shallows!

Enjoy

ps A way of fixing rudder between neutral and full would be really good as well!

 

 

Superb ideas for enriched content, I would like also some others to be considered and if possible, developed: fog, mutinies, transshipments in OW and maybe in instances too. There are others.

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While leeway is real.. it doesnt feel like a ship leeway on water, but leeway on ice. 

Having spent a lot of time on ice, I can say it feels more like that than anything on the open sea.

More so in the unrateds like the 6th and 7th rates.   But the 5th rates and bigger dont feel as bad. 

 

Granted I am whipping a Trincomalee around like a US Navy Destroyer, which has maneuvering jets to help it turn.

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I think the graphics make it seem a bit like sliding on ice rather than water - hence the need to tweek the graphical effects.

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4 hours ago, Rouleur said:

I think the graphics make it seem a bit like sliding on ice rather than water - hence the need to tweek the graphical effects.

We also need improved representation of the bottoms, since you can get "grounded" when a good depth of water is still displayed under the ship.

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On 10/01/2018 at 3:08 PM, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

We also need improved representation of the bottoms, since you can get "grounded" when a good depth of water is still displayed under the ship.

also a great chance to visually show if a ship is "copper bottomed" or not.....

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