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WASA why so over powered?

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11 minutes ago, Churlish said:

There are a few problems I see with your argument. 

1) Your premise that all captains who feel the Wasa are overperforming are poor captains is based on a single test. One in which the better captain is in the non-Wasa vessel. This is a small and flawed sample size to base so large an insult on. 

2) The Wasa in the single experiment you did mention, was a poor choice to face a speed bellona. A true test between ships would be based on an equal build/mods etc. You mention the Bellona used the wind advantage, and any Wasa captain worth his salt knows that the Wasa can easily gain weather gage on a Bellona based on their sailing profiles, particularly if the ships are similarly built/modded. 

My conclusion here is that a single combat with dissimilar builds with captains of admittedly different skill should not be used to insult a rather large amount of captains. People's opinions are worth more respect than this. Good day to you.

See your points are flawed.  

I have unlocked Wasa on my second char.   So I have fought in both ships.  My main prefers the Aggy over the Wasa cause I like how it handled before the merge and current patches.  The problem is you guys forgets that 99% of the game isn't elite players.  Hell 70% of the game doesn't even get on these forums.  Most of the guys and I say most cause I know them from Global that have been making these WASA OP post are guys that could hardly manual sail there own arse out of irons are spend most of the battle running in there speed ships.  Of course if they take a Fir/Fir Ship against something with a heavy broad side of a ship of that type.  

I have over 7K hours in this game on my main and 4K on my alts, I done a lot of testing of ships so it's not just one example.  Hell just look at my post count  I think I"m like around the top 5-10 players on post.   Up until recently when I started working again I played a lot of hours in this game.  That was just one example I stated on here.   The fact is that is it's a powerful ship that needs to be moved to a better spot that matches it's BR and maybe some minor tweaks to it's stats.  It does not need to be nerfed to death.  Any one notice when a few of us state fix the BR none of the guys complaining say anything about port battles?  Instead they still say, "Well it will still be to powerful in OW."   Well than maybe bring bigger ships or ships not made of fir fir.  If you bring SOLO's don't sail them solo.   Don't be an idiot when you out number and go at the player one at a time.   Support the other players in your battle.  To many folks die cause they only care about there own ships and hides and they leave the other players up the creek and run.

 

8 minutes ago, Sailor said:

Wasa is a third rate, developers class it as 4th because they use the British system of classing by number of guns.
https://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=10981

It is not overpowered for a third rate. Third rates were queens of the sea. 

And this is why many of us think that it needs a BR bump.  Can still keep it a 4th rate but bring the BR up to match the 3rd rates cause of it's broad side weight, but ships like the Connie and Aggy need there old stats back and than do a proper BR balance between them.  Even the Ingermanland and Wappen need some love too.  Don't nerf ships cause older ships are under power.  Bring the old ships back to there proper power level to balance things out.  I bet you most of these guys that think the Wasa is OP wasn't away when then Wappen, Aggy and Connie first came out and every one thought they where OP too.  It's just a balance issue is all.  OW shouldn't matter about BR cause any one can use what ever they want.  This just helps balance them in port battles is all.

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8 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

See your points are flawed.  

I have unlocked Wasa on my second char.   So I have fought in both ships.  My main prefers the Aggy over the Wasa cause I like how it handled before the merge and current patches.  The problem is you guys forgets that 99% of the game isn't elite players.  Hell 70% of the game doesn't even get on these forums.  Most of the guys and I say most cause I know them from Global that have been making these WASA OP post are guys that could hardly manual sail there own arse out of irons are spend most of the battle running in there speed ships.  Of course if they take a Fir/Fir Ship against something with a heavy broad side of a ship of that type.  

I have over 7K hours in this game on my main and 4K on my alts, I done a lot of testing of ships so it's not just one example.  Hell just look at my post count  I think I"m like around the top 5-10 players on post.   Up until recently when I started working again I played a lot of hours in this game.  That was just one example I stated on here.   The fact is that is it's a powerful ship that needs to be moved to a better spot that matches it's BR and maybe some minor tweaks to it's stats.  It does not need to be nerfed to death.  Any one notice when a few of us state fix the BR none of the guys complaining say anything about port battles?  Instead they still say, "Well it will still be to powerful in OW."   Well than maybe bring bigger ships or ships not made of fir fir.  If you bring SOLO's don't sail them solo.   Don't be an idiot when you out number and go at the player one at a time.   Support the other players in your battle.  To many folks die cause they only care about there own ships and hides and they leave the other players up the creek and run.

 

And this is why many of us think that it needs a BR bump.  Can still keep it a 4th rate but bring the BR up to match the 3rd rates cause of it's broad side weight, but ships like the Connie and Aggy need there old stats back and than do a proper BR balance between them.  Even the Ingermanland and Wappen need some love too.  Don't nerf ships cause older ships are under power.  Bring the old ships back to there proper power level to balance things out.  I bet you most of these guys that think the Wasa is OP wasn't away when then Wappen, Aggy and Connie first came out and every one thought they where OP too.  It's just a balance issue is all.  OW shouldn't matter about BR cause any one can use what ever they want.  This just helps balance them in port battles is all.

I'm not sure who "you guys" is supposed to be, but I categorically reject the idea that my points were flawed due to your hours in game, forum post count, or perceived supremacy of analysis in this game. You having sailed both ships is also not a sound basis since you cannot fight yourself in each. I happen to agree that a good captain can beat a poor one, even in a disadvantaged ship. And yes there are many poor and average captains, many more than good ones, and this type of tiering is common in online games like these. The combat evidence you offered to set up your insult was lacking, and I thought the result was inappropriate. You interpreted my issue with your evidence and following bash to mean I was in favor of a Wasa nerf despite my position not being set forth on that point. I actually happen to align  more closely with your position and believe that if her armament, sailing profile, and ballistics performance are historically accurate that is great. In my own point of view she causes an imbalance in the game, but this does not necessarily need to result in a nerf.

The OP opinions possibly stem in part from the dismast centric combat we have now, and the relative ease with which she can dismast most vessels which can catch her. This of course is a controversial and separate issue entirely.

 

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Something has to be done about the Wasa. Yes, one-on-one skilled players in the right build 3rd or 2nd rate can beat it. There are even a few who can probably beat it one-on-one in a 4th rate. BUT... It is an incredible force multiplier on fleet engagements for those who can get it. And more and more they are going to be in the hands of those who don't need a force multiplier. They're already the most powerful nations.

Nerf it or bump its BR and then allow everyone to build it.

Or the other idea is we all just instasurrender to Wasas and save some time.

Edited by Farrago

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On 12/31/2017 at 4:40 AM, Churlish said:

I'm not sure who "you guys" is supposed to be, but I categorically reject the idea that my points were flawed due to your hours in game, forum post count, or perceived supremacy of analysis in this game. You having sailed both ships is also not a sound basis since you cannot fight yourself in each. I happen to agree that a good captain can beat a poor one, even in a disadvantaged ship. And yes there are many poor and average captains, many more than good ones, and this type of tiering is common in online games like these. The combat evidence you offered to set up your insult was lacking, and I thought the result was inappropriate. You interpreted my issue with your evidence and following bash to mean I was in favor of a Wasa nerf despite my position not being set forth on that point. I actually happen to align  more closely with your position and believe that if her armament, sailing profile, and ballistics performance are historically accurate that is great. In my own point of view she causes an imbalance in the game, but this does not necessarily need to result in a nerf.

The OP opinions possibly stem in part from the dismast centric combat we have now, and the relative ease with which she can dismast most vessels which can catch her. This of course is a controversial and separate issue entirely.

 

Fine, how about this for a list of reasons why it is OP:

1) On a broadside weight to BR ratio, it is 3.09:1. The closest ship to it is the Ingermanland, which is only 2.57. All other ships are below 2.4.

2) On a broadside weight to gun ratio, it is 11.95:1. This places it between the 3rd Rate and Bellona.

3) It has a total broadside weight between the 3rd rate and the Bellona.

4) It has comparable side armour HP as the 3rd Rate. 

5) It has comparable structure HP as the 3rd Rate.

6) It has side armour thickness comparable to the other 4th rates in game.

7) It has a turn rate comparable to the other 4th rates in game.

8) It has base speed of a 2nd rate

9) It was historically a 3rd rate.

So, in offensive capability it is solidly among the 3rd rates in game. I defensive capability it is comparable to the 3rd rates in game. Historically it was a 3rd rate. If you evaluated its stats against the other ships in game without knowing BR or class, it would be ranked as a 3rd rate. It should be a 3rd rate.

Incidentally, there is only 1 other ship that is OP for it's class, the Indefatigable. But 1) its BR reflects this (same as the 4th rates) and 2) the only thing that makes it OP is its armour HP, which means it's really not that OP.

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