WASA why so over powered?

[Sea Fox]

You guys are doing a fantastic job on the realization of this game!!

I believe that the new ship Dynamics will make boarding harder which is a good thing since boarding is terribly broken. So that's a step in the right direction that will prevent someone from winning combat in under 30 seconds with crazy boarding game.

But the elephant in the room is this Wasa which is ridiculously overpowered! I would never try to take one on and expect to win in my surprise. But I jumped in when I saw one attack a US indiaman. He sank the Indiaman in less than a minute. My strategy as a support ship was to bug out if I couldn't help. But the Wasa Knows No Boundaries upwind, downwind, in between wind. Demasting can be done with your eyes closed.

As a solo player it will be impossible for me now to obtain a Wasa to battle with (and let's face it why would you sail anything else?) 

So what to do?

Edited December 28, 2017 by Sea Fox
Typo

[Liq]

Devs need to decide. 3rd or 4th-rate? Current armament / armor is definetly NOT a 4th rate (as it is classified in game). So two options

1. Drastically increase its BR, classify it as a 3rd rate, nerf upwind sailing profile accordingly (like other 3rd rates)
2. Replace 32 pounders by 24 pounders, 24 pounder deck by 18 pounders; keep it as a 4th rate. (Then might aswell lower Thickness on all ships 4th rate and above so ships can actually pen. each other again).

Mixture between 3rd rate and 4th rate won't work.

[PIerrick de Badas]

wasa is overcheated lading all others 4th to be useless. It need to be br buff. So do wapen and agamemnon to let people choose inger or consti

[maturin]

Wasa was built as a small 3rd Rate.

 

If I were a Constitution fan, I would be incensed at the fact that she gets nerfed into oblivion while a ship of the line with the exact same OW-killing stats gets a free pass.

So is a Live Oak Consti going to get the same base speed as a Teak Trinco, or is Wasa getting nerfed? Choose one.

[Sea Fox]

1 hour ago, maturin said:

Wasa was built as a small 3rd Rate.

 

If I were a Constitution fan, I would be incensed at the fact that she gets nerfed into oblivion while a ship of the line with the exact same OW-killing stats gets a free pass.

So is a Live Oak Consti going to get the same base speed as a Teak Trinco, or is Wasa getting nerfed? Choose one.

I'm a Constitution fan. I would never take Constitution out up against a Wasa. No way to outrun , no way to out gun. No way to even stay in battle long enough to do enough damage to proof you were ever even there....this game goes above and beyond in aspects of realizism and hits the mark. Except in this area...

[PenguPirate]

3 hours ago, Liq said:

Devs need to decide. 3rd or 4th-rate? Current armament / armor is definetly NOT a 4th rate (as it is classified in game). So two options

1. Drastically increase its BR, classify it as a 3rd rate, nerf upwind sailing profile accordingly (like other 3rd rates)
2. Replace 32 pounders by 24 pounders, 24 pounder deck by 18 pounders; keep it as a 4th rate. (Then might aswell lower Thickness on all ships 4th rate and above so ships can actually pen. each other again).

Mixture between 3rd rate and 4th rate won't work.

Wouldn't that be overnerfed? A 3rd rate with no 32pdrs? Even the current 3rd rate sports them now.

I'd say remove it out of the game, refund players with PvP marks and put it back after it's more balanced. They have another in-house team to test the ships before passing it to us right?

[maturin]

Just drop Wasa down to 24 pounders on both decks. She needed to use a special kind of short-pattern gun for the main battery, which we don't have in-game. And make her a 3rd Rate.

I bet the sailing profile could be narrowed as well, without jettisoning any of the historical data.

[Liq]

2 hours ago, PenguPirate said:

Wouldn't that be overnerfed? A 3rd rate with no 32pdrs? Even the current 3rd rate sports them now.

I'd say remove it out of the game, refund players with PvP marks and put it back after it's more balanced. They have another in-house team to test the ships before passing it to us right?

my suggestion was to either make it a proper 3rd rate with 32s, OR make it a 4th rate with 24s.

[victor]

10 hours ago, maturin said:

Wasa was built as a small 3rd Rate.

 

If I were a Constitution fan, I would be incensed at the fact that she gets nerfed into oblivion while a ship of the line with the exact same OW-killing stats gets a free pass.

So is a Live Oak Consti going to get the same base speed as a Teak Trinco, or is Wasa getting nerfed? Choose one.

I always thought that getting back Constitution to its role of superFRIGATE (so fair punch, but uber speed and turn for its size) could be a good counter Wasa antidote. But Devs seem really to hate connie.

Edited December 29, 2017 by victor

[admin]

3 minutes ago, victor said:

 But Devs seem really to hate connie.

impossible - constitution was like the third ship added to game. we love the uss constitution.
its just new ships sometimes make old ships unbalanced. but the combat update will also be applied. Consti will get its hp/thickness buffs (as well as indefatigable).

[victor]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

impossible - constitution was like the third ship added to game. we love the uss constitution.
its just new ships sometimes make old ships unbalanced. but the combat update will also be applied. Consti will get its hp/thickness buffs (as well as indefatigable).

Nice to know. I am a big fan of connie.

BTW merry Christmas and happy new year.

Edited December 29, 2017 by victor

[Sir Texas Sir]

54 minutes ago, admin said:

impossible - constitution was like the third ship added to game. we love the uss constitution.
its just new ships sometimes make old ships unbalanced. but the combat update will also be applied. Consti will get its hp/thickness buffs (as well as indefatigable).

Yah every one wants to nerf the Wasa but none of them really think of the 4th rates old states that where OP when they came out cause they had nothing of that class to compare too.  I think bumping the BR up a bit on the Wasa in @Liq example 1 above is the best bet until the other ships are balanced and is a quick fix.    Give the other 4th rates bumps to there old stats when they came out and you will see a lot more folks like them.  So that we had ships of specialliies.  Wasa can stay the jack of all trade but master of none, but he actually has to be that if that is it's role, right now he masters to much even with being limited now to PvP marks only.

 

With that Hermonie should be CM as she is a good balanced ship that is not good at anything but better than most in that class over all.  That was the perfect ship balance for CM ship.  Than put the 3rd rate in as a CM ship since we have some new 3rd rates coming in the future.  It will give her a role between the 4ths and 3rds as a cheap ship folks can just buy and jump into for OW engagements.

[Landsman]

1 hour ago, admin said:

impossible - constitution was like the third ship added to game. we love the uss constitution.
its just new ships sometimes make old ships unbalanced. but the combat update will also be applied. Consti will get its hp/thickness buff

Thanks fam, Constitution is Legend.

[NethrosDefectus]

12 hours ago, Liq said:

Devs need to decide. 3rd or 4th-rate? Current armament / armor is definetly NOT a 4th rate (as it is classified in game). So two options

1. Drastically increase its BR, classify it as a 3rd rate, nerf upwind sailing profile accordingly (like other 3rd rates)
2. Replace 32 pounders by 24 pounders, 24 pounder deck by 18 pounders; keep it as a 4th rate. (Then might aswell lower Thickness on all ships 4th rate and above so ships can actually pen. each other again).

Mixture between 3rd rate and 4th rate won't work.

I'm sorry but I still dont know why everyone's solution to the Wasa problem is to change it from a 4th to 3rd rate. Its rating has very little do with open world pvp where I feel the wasa presents the biggest issue. If you encounter one especially as a solo player in anything other than another wasa then your only choice is to turn around and HOPE it is not built for speed or say goodbye to your ship. 

Edited December 29, 2017 by NethrosDefectus

[Nelsons Barrel]

24 minutes ago, NethrosDefectus said:

I'm sorry but I still dont know why everyone's solution to the Wasa problem is to change it from a 4th to 3rd rate. Its rating has very little do with open world pvp where I feel the wasa presents the biggest issue. If you encounter one especially as a solo player in anything other than another wasa then your only choice is to turn around and HOPE it is not built for speed or say goodbye to your ship. 

It just feels different when you attack with your connie a ship of the line. You know it outguns you, you know it will hit you hard. While that, Wasa is sitting right now in the same league as the connie. You think you should be able to beat it, but you simply cannot. Raising BR and classifying it as ship of the line will grant you the possibility to take two ships in battle against one Wasa in port battle and make it somewhat 'fair'.

[NethrosDefectus]

3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It just feels different when you attack with your connie a ship of the line. You know it outguns you, you know it will hit you hard. While that, Wasa is sitting right now in the same league as the connie. You think you should be able to beat it, but you simply cannot. Raising BR and classifying it as ship of the line will grant you the possibility to take two ships in battle against one Wasa in port battle and make it somewhat 'fair'.

OPEN WORLD PVP

[Thonys]

3 hours ago, admin said:

impossible - constitution was like the third ship added to game. we love the uss constitution.
its just new ships sometimes make old ships unbalanced. but the combat update will also be applied. Consti will get its hp/thickness buffs (as well as indefatigable).

o.0 you mean 

impoffible wright

the uff connfituffion

i cant fpeak normally all day;) 

thankf for that......

OT Waffa if overpowered by bad parameterf ftill, and needf a fix foon

Edited December 29, 2017 by Thonys

[Liq]

3 hours ago, NethrosDefectus said:

I'm sorry but I still dont know why everyone's solution to the Wasa problem is to change it from a 4th to 3rd rate. Its rating has very little do with open world pvp where I feel the wasa presents the biggest issue. If you encounter one especially as a solo player in anything other than another wasa then your only choice is to turn around and HOPE it is not built for speed or say goodbye to your ship. 

What about a fir fir bellona, stacked with jib force?

[Landsman]

15 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

As a solo player it will be impossible for me now to obtain a Wasa to battle with (and let's face it why would you sail anything else?) 

This is exactly why I think making Wasa available only for PvP marks in its current state was a bad mistake. The only thing worse than a broken item / gear in a game, is making it difficult to obtain for a large portion of players, thus only increasing the imbalance further... The current cost of 30 PvP marks seems fair but still hello kittys over alot of casuals / noobs that can't stay in Wasa with their lack of experience and skill but will face Wasa constantly. Also let's not forget about the folks that hoarded Wasas / Wasa notes for dirt cheap and worthless combat marks before the patch...

[Hethwill]

She has a tremendous broadside weight. Given she uses the best recorded guns setup why aren't others also ? Surprise i'm looking at you ? Where have your 12s gone to.... !?  ... maybe something could be reviewed... just saying...

No need to go through all the sources again, Wasa is more than a capable 4th rate but was never built to act as a "super frigate" when compared to the Constitution for example.

She was a ship of the line of battle. Same as the Ingermaland, same as a Wappen. I trust the savvy fellows of the records and archives but something tells me that she woudln't compare to a similar rate ship build for chase in the high seas ( like the Connie )

[Malachi]

2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I trust the savvy fellows of the records and archives but something tells me that she woudln't compare to a similar rate ship build for chase in the high seas ( like the Connie )

Wanna bet?

And please, don´t mention the Wappen and lineship in the same sentence. That thing....ugh.

[Hethwill]

I bet the Wappen with a "white" paint will look gorgeous.

[maturin]

The unknowable aspect of speed is always the median and average.

Were captains reporting the absolute best the ship ever did, for a period of five minutes in a squall? Or was it a fair assessment of her consistent capabilities under ideal conditions? And perhaps the 'slow' ship had the advantage in 75% of wind conditions, even if its top speed was much lower.

[Hethwill]

... and propaganda added as spice as well ?

But, numbers are numbers. All good  

[maturin]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

... and propaganda added as spice as well ?

But, numbers are numbers. All good  

Sailing reports were state secrets. And clearly treated as a chore by most captains, as they rushed off to the nearest tavern.

By the way, 'Wasa' has a higher length:breadth ratio than Niger, the 12-pdr frigate that ran 14 knots.