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Patch 14: Part 3 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

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19 minutes ago, admin said:

they act as permanent upgrade.

Good to have some paints back... thank you for this gift. Will we see more paint jobs again or only those 2 for now?

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35 minutes ago, Landsman said:

are they some mix between mediums and carronades? what is their range compared to longs / mediums? Given the insane reload and the hefty dispersion they should have long cannon range but i haven't tested them yet..

They have the pen of the Mediums but the accuracy of Carros.   I can see them being used for an alpha strike on a SOL before other ships finish them off.  Just htink of them going off with the 42's carros and longs on a Santi.  That would be a beast even more if you used double ball.  Hell might have to make a santi like that now.  The other thing is maybe doing the same with smaller ship that has them on bottom deck but use the top deck of traditional long guns.  Going to be some intesting fights.  We can get that reload down to 75 secs though, but that is still long as hell. I'm wondering if they have anything hidden we don't know about them in stats.  LIke higher chance to start fire or something.

29 minutes ago, admin said:

lose ship - lose paint
they act as permanent upgrade.

But due to sheer volume of accounts (120k) we might never run out. People will sell them or can be captured with them

Until the new paint system comes out and I assume that is more like release time since you said we will need to wipe ships.  I would say ya'll really need to bring back paint chest as rewards for like epic events and maybe for sale in PvP shop.   Those are the type or rewards that aren't OP for any one and make great trade items. I have never owned an Endy other than the free redeemable one so I have all those paints and I prob won't be using a lot of Bellona's, but there are a lot of o other ships that had paints I used.

So yah bring back paint chest please.   To many bland wood color ships out there that look the same.

Ok I made one and put paint on it.....

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

Edited by Sir Texas Sir
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13 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

r sale in PvP shop.   Those are the type or rewards that aren't OP for any one and make great trade items. I have never owned an Endy other than the free redeemable one so I have all those paints and I prob won't be using a lot of Bellona's, but there are a lot of o other ships that had paints I used.

So yah bring back paint chest please.   To many bland wood color ships out there that look the same.

+1

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7 hours ago, admin said:

NA has the best sailing model now, fully representing the majority of decisions age of sail captain had to make when sailing a combat ship. We plan to adapt the steam page description and website to reflect this accomplishment

Thank you for the effort you make to provide the realism in this game, and congratulations on this achievement. 

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4 hours ago, admin said:

please report on edinorog guns if you have any feedback.

Ok took my first trip out with the Victory loaded up with these on the middle deck.  I wanted to try my grind build so I had medium 42's on the lower deck and 12's on all the uppers.  I did a 20% reload build with the rest in accuracy.   

The cannons use the the cannos slots for the class so remember that folks.  They act as Mediums for the most part with the penetration and accuracy.  I should of ran the ship bare bone on mods/ship knowledge to test this though.  I did't have any issues with aiming them with the 42 Mediums.  With the 20% to reload 80 seconds while long wasn't as bad as I thought.   They put a good punch into the 3rd Rate and bellona I fought first.   Than the Pavel no problems, but than I'm in a 1st rate so should have a problem.  

Just a heads up they also act as Carros as you can't use Double Ball or Charge on them.  I can see them being used on certain alpha strike builds.  I wouldn't mind testing out a Santi with 42 Cannons, the Edinorog and than 42 carros on top deck.   That would be a lot of damage on any full broad side at once.

Guns take 8 crew each.  A bellona with nothing but two decks of them will reload shock a Connie, but that is like 2240 damage on a broad side.  Nasty guys, but man that reload is slow. I can see them as good AI grinding guns and maybe for an Alpha Strike Santi but prob not for OW PvP.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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With the addition of leeway, the rudder control needs to be changes to set and forget (like manual sails).

Constantly having to tap a and d to maintain a course is tedious and doesn't add to gameplay or immersion.

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8 minutes ago, BPHick said:

With the addition of leeway, the rudder control needs to be changes to set and forget (like manual sails).

Constantly having to tap a and d to maintain a course is tedious and doesn't add to gameplay or immersion.

That's not how leeway works. Why would you ever need to tap anything?

If you want to sail at 80 degrees, you aim at 75 degrees. It's that simple.

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14 minutes ago, maturin said:

That's not how leeway works. Why would you ever need to tap anything?

If you want to sail at 80 degrees, you aim at 75 degrees. It's that simple.

Or trim your sails so you dont have much leeway.....  there is always that option.

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55 minutes ago, maturin said:

That's not how leeway works. Why would you ever need to tap anything?

If you want to sail at 80 degrees, you aim at 75 degrees. It's that simple.

Look, I understand how leeway works, thanks anyway. The implementation of "leeway" has lead to several handling changes. Forgive me for using the term as it is used in the patch notes.

What you completely miss is you can't steer 75 degrees to hold 80 without tapping the rudder keys repeatedly.

 

34 minutes ago, Odol said:

Or trim your sails so you dont have much leeway.....  there is always that option.



A ship, sailing upwind, will tend to "fall off" because of the lateral force on the headsails. This is often countered by steering slightly back into the wind, to hold the bow on a constant bearing. (since you can't really trim the sails to counter this while still maintaining headway). We cannot do this, however, because the rudder control is either neutral or full over. We can lock it full over, but anything in between requires constantly tapping the rudder keys. 

Edited by BPHick

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2 hours ago, admin said:

lose ship - lose paint
they act as permanent upgrade.

But due to sheer volume of accounts (120k) we might never run out. People will sell them or can be captured with them

is there any living source for these paints? PvE events, Fleets, PvP drops? Or we will expect never returning people to sell them to public?

600/120000 , I don't know what you have in store for us, but how do you want 600 to become at least 2000? Any particular strategy, just curious. 

Edited by Seraphic Radiance

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1 hour ago, BPHick said:

What you completely miss is you can't steer 75 degrees to hold 80 without tapping the rudder keys repeatedly.

Why not? I see no problem and no difference from how it is in reality? If you make 10 degrees of leeway and need to hit a mark 10 miles distant, you can do some basic trigonometry and find the right course.

 

Quote

A ship, sailing upwind, will tend to "fall off" because of the lateral force on the headsails. This is often countered by steering slightly back into the wind, to hold the bow on a constant bearing. (since you can't really trim the sails to counter this while still maintaining headway). We cannot do this, however, because the rudder control is either neutral or full over. We can lock it full over, but anything in between requires constantly tapping the rudder keys. 

Most real ships in proper trim are 'ardent' and carry weather helm. Being slack and wanting to fall off is an undesirable trait, and such lee helm is ideally counteracted by the spanker.

If you need to sail in a straight line in this game, you use autoskipper. It's only when you are trying to hold position using your yards that this aspect of rudder control becomes an issue. I find that full left/right rudder is just fine for controlling rotation at low speeds, even if you can't ever find equilibrium. Real ships also struggle to maintain perfect control.

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

So yah bring back paint chest please.   To many bland wood color ships out there that look the same.

Ok I made one and put paint on it.....

 

 

As long as the added paints are historically accurate, last thing the game needs is ships with paint schemes that look as if they belong to JG 1 flying circus.

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17 minutes ago, William Wade said:

As long as the added paints are historically accurate, last thing the game needs is ships with paint schemes that look as if they belong to JG 1 flying circus.

Have you seen the paints we had?  They where very much historical or close to it.  There is a reason that they won't players do there own paints lol

 

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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15 minutes ago, Destraex said:

This all sounds amazing. Will this model be applied to naval action legends as well?

Yes. Soon but don't know exactly when.

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11 hours ago, admin said:

Sailing model 2018

  • New sailing model has been applied to 6th rates and unrated vessels (some ships could become too good but it will be tuned)
    • I just tested a trader's snow and the rudder effectiveness is huge. I can turn FAST even with no yard use and only 3 kts of speed. Can't remember if it was always like this, but I definitely don't remember NA:Legends brigs being like this.
  • Ship displacements finalized and ship colliders (game development term) tuned.
  • Yards have been overhauled.
    • Force is now being applied to the position of the masts
    • This is cool. Ships now finish a tack by being pushed downwind under the backed foresails. I no longer feel any need to use the rudder at this stage.
  • Leeway
    • Staysails now provide sideforce
    • Square sails now provide sideforce
    • Very good, but the ships' hulls and masts should also provide sideforce. A dismasted hulk should drift slowly. A ship that has surrendered and furled sails should drift a bit faster.
    • Sideforce depends on ships form and sail power
    • I haven't found a good way to estimate the leeway angles, except using Home camera and looking at the wakes. It's a very crude method.
  • Side and yard side force now depends on speed (due to keel resistance rising at speed)
    • Leeway angles don't seem to change very much depending on point of sail or speed of the ship. At a broad reach, there should be almost no leeway; it needs to depend on point of sail. And if I am sailing close-hauled and press T, the leeway angle doesn't seem to increase much.
      • The higher the speed the more keel resistance you will encounter. Yards will not be as efficient on maximum speed.
  • Heel
    • Sail/Yard power now provides heel
    • Heel depends on hull form and Sail power
    • Fast ships (especially ships that has fastest speed beam reached) will heel more.
    • This opens new options in combat (for example conserving broadsides to focus on waterline)
    • Tested with LGV and heel seems pretty much the same as it always was. Not a fast ship, though.
  • Turn inertia and acceleration added both to rudder and side force
    • Bigger ships will take longer time to reach maximum turn rate
    • As a results you might need to plan maneuvers a little bit in advance and plan to change direction a little bit earlier, especially in heavy vessels
    • Nimbler ships will reach maximum turn rates faster
    • Turning decel doesn't seem to interfere with sterncamping maneuvers very much. Anyone try this yet?
  • Autoskipper no longer balances ships when you receive damage or lose masts.

Turn rates (especially for frigates) will probably require another pass of optimization for historical feel and gameplay. But we are very happy how all the changes turn out in internal testing.

I did a lot of testing with LGV and everything seems very natural at the frigate level. Sideforce and drifting behavior is beautiful and elegant.

Snow seems a bit too hyper, in terms of turning. She does donuts like a skidding car.

 

 

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The new sailing mechanics with leeway are completely screwed up when stuck in shallows.  Ai ends up beached right away.  You go from -1 to +1 know in split section and back and forth with no adjustment to heading.  I get more sail force from leeway than from sails.   When beached, leeway is so strong you cannot even tack into wind.

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Yes, getting stuck in shallows is game over if the wind comes from the wrong side.

The leeward/drift-effect seems more pronounced at low speeds (as it should be i think). Made a few manouvres i couldn't do before, now just have to find a use for them ;-)

I had a weird thing happening when in aiming-view (inputs didn't work, everything slowed down and then jumped suddenly ahead (by a shiplength!), when tacking through the wind), it happened twice, had to get out of aimingview for things to go at a normal speed again (might be a coincidence?). Probably lag of some kind? (never happened to me before)

A shot out rudder now holds it's position (maybe i missed this before? It is more visible now, or has more impact), as in if you were turning left and you lose your rudder, it gets stuck in that position and the ship continues it turn to the left until repaired. That was nice.

I was sailing a Wapen.

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Tested out .

Yet again L'Ocean has recieved a nerf in turn rate.

Did a 2 vs 25 fleet and the crew /mast damage has increased to the point where frigates can demast a 1 rate without not too many problems, not to mention the rum-surgeon situation. 

No significant changes in battle tactics, you can still go backwards upwind, you can still create messes on beaches or group of ships, apart from the fact that now ships can move like crabs.

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12 hours ago, admin said:

Closed haul performance slightly increased for

  • Wappen
  • Ingermanland

 

This seems to have come at the expense of the Ingermanland's down wind performance. I used to hit the top speed in the Ingermanland at about 1 notch from down wind and now I reach the top speed around 2+ notches from down wind. This moves the sailing profile much closer to that of the Wasa and other common pvp ships. The unique down wind performance of the Ingermanland was what made it a viable solo pvp ship as it could usually escape an overwhelming force by running down wind. In order to keep some diversity in OW pvp ships I think the Ingermanland's sailing profile should be adjusted such that the downwind performance is restored to how it was before patch 14 part 3, otherwise we may as well all be using Wasas.

8FB2B82389B3E9A722C4D97210ADEB2059F3B3FD

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26 minutes ago, --Privateer-- said:

This seems to have come at the expense of the Ingermanland's down wind performance. I used to hit the top speed in the Ingermanland at about 1 notch from down wind and now I reach the top speed around 2+ notches from down wind. This moves the sailing profile much closer to that of the Wasa and other common pvp ships. The unique down wind performance of the Ingermanland was what made it a viable solo pvp ship as it could usually escape an overwhelming force by running down wind. In order to keep some diversity in OW pvp ships I think the Ingermanland's sailing profile should be adjusted such that the downwind performance is restored to how it was before patch 14 part 3, otherwise we may as well all be using Wasas.

8FB2B82389B3E9A722C4D97210ADEB2059F3B3FD

impossible   are you sure you dont have mods reducing downwind speed?

inger profile was only tuned at 45 degrees to wind (close hauled). Downwind curves should have remained

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Hmm, is it possible that leeway is affecting the reported speed?

Although I would suspect leeway would add to reported speed in this situation, not detract (since the ship is being carried farther downwind).

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