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William Wade

Ship Mods Why?

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Please explain the reasoning behind the excessive amount of ship mods in this game that can turn what would be a brick into something ridiculously fast. In my opinion the ship should only be as fast as the woods it's crafted with, with the exception of one figurehead mod.  

Mods should be cosmetic (historic) or very minor enhancements only nothing more. Just lowers the standard of the game from Simulator to Grand Theft Auto with sail with the risk of P2W implemented further down the track unless you have 1,000's of hours free to grind and build a super ship.   

 

 

 

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Every MMO has gear and upgrades. We should not do away with them but they need some balancing. The speed mods are in a good place since if you want 15.5 you have to be fir fir which means you melt under fire. The thickness mods are the real problem. A 101 thickness first rate can bounce 24lbs from any angle/distance.

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28 minutes ago, William Wade said:

Please explain the reasoning behind the excessive amount of ship mods in this game that can turn what would be a brick into something ridiculously fast. In my opinion the ship should only be as fast as the woods it's crafted with, with the exception of one figurehead mod.  

Mods should be cosmetic (historic) or very minor enhancements only nothing more. Just lowers the standard of the game from Simulator to Grand Theft Auto with sail with the risk of P2W implemented further down the track unless you have 1,000's of hours free to grind and build a super ship.   

 

 

 

You can't make a brick ridiculously fast, a LOWO ship comes with a lovely -8.5% speed modifier and you can barely make that go away with all speed upgrades. What you however can do is make a ship that is both somewhat fast and somewhat heavy be both very fast and very tanky, e.g. a TWO ship with cartagena (more thickness than the LOWO ship) and PVP speed and copper plating (as much speed as fir/fir now)

Now you might argue that you can put Cartagena on a LOWO ship as well, but here's the thing... LO = 10%, WO = 5%, Cartagena 7%, Navy refit 5%.. oops, we're above the cap now.

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14 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

Some people strongly agree with you.  Others say the gambler's high of "whack monster, get loot" is what keeps people in the game.

I personally favor the former, but I wonder if we could somehow separate the two and have both.

Save the arcade mods for Legends.  NA should be a simulator of naval combat for sail, not an arcade game.

9 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Every MMO has gear and upgrades. We should not do away with them but they need some balancing. The speed mods are in a good place since if you want 15.5 you have to be fir fir which means you melt under fire. The thickness mods are the real problem. A 101 thickness first rate can bounce 24lbs from any angle/distance.

Not every MMO only MMO in the last ten years or so has grind for mods become popular, go back to the 90s and Air Warrior which then became AH1 then AH2 didn't have mods. It was purely skill based. If you were in a P51 and the other P51 was catching you (fuel,ammo load out being equal) it was because of skill not because he had copper plated wings.

 

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7 minutes ago, William Wade said:

Please explain the reasoning behind the excessive amount of ship mods in this game

I struggle with this too. I've asked this question nearly two years now. As far as I can tell it's about content for pve and eco motivated players. They aren't truly motivated by such gameplay, it seems, so they have this carrot of the mythical and magical sword +10  to keep them going.

Join the resistance, Wade! Let's make crafting count, let's have deliberate ship balance, let's increase PvP willingness, let's make this about skill and not equipment, let's empower the casuals.

2 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Every MMO has gear and upgrades.

No, but even if WoW has let's dare to be different. Let us liberate fighting equipment from the clammy hands of the bot bullies.

I have a dream.

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I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding about the mods and the way they work/stack. I'm not a huge fan of the PvE-locked skill books that yield very significant gains in PvP-oriented activity, but I think the mods are not a huge, problem at the moment. Maybe some rebalancing, sure, but not removal from the game. Being able to customize the build and loadout of a ship fit for different purposes is necessary.

I think if every ship you saw was cookie cutter other than the planking/frame parts it would be an incredibly sterile world. And if you're calling for less diversity in ships/builds then you're likely the kind of person that wants much more balanced types of engagements, ala Legends.

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3 minutes ago, William Wade said:

It was purely skill based.

PvE grinders don't like this

3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

And if you're calling for less diversity in ships/builds then you're likely the kind of person that wants much more balanced types of engagements, ala Legends.

Wade mentioned AW and AH, there were and are no balanced engagements there. Besides, don't tell him or anyone what they want. Besides mkII, don't you guys want as many fighting captains as possible in OW?

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28 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think if every ship you saw was cookie cutter other than the planking/frame parts it would be an incredibly sterile world. And if you're calling for less diversity in ships/builds then you're likely the kind of person that wants much more balanced types of engagements, ala Legends.

This is why I like OW over Legends. Cookie cutter ships are boring. The current thickness meta in PB speed meta in OW is even getting sterile in my opinion. I would like for the devs to make alternative builds viable so that we can see some diversity in the fights.

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44 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Besides, don't tell him or anyone what they want. Besides mkII, don't you guys want as many fighting captains as possible in OW?

That's funny, you seem to have no problem trying to impose your anti-PvE stance on everyone else's OW experience with #FakeNews about how PvE content somehow magically reduces the PvP content available. :rolleyes: 

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I don't mind the idea of modules just they need to be implemented better and have pros and cons to them, Ship knowledge on the other hand i've never liked and the extra grind to unlock all slots and finding books etc, we want people out PvPing dont we? maybe they need to look into how POTBS did their modules/ supply and demand, there were modules for sale all over the OW and they are cheap and competitive so you could easily buy/ sell or craft your modules and then pop them on your ship and head out and find some fun, ship knowledge and an expensive/ rare materials system doesn't work well and we can see its just created an crap economy system!

example of POTBS outfitting
http://potbs.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Outfitting_Recipes_(General)

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There have been lots of ideas thrown about on this issue. Personally I like diminishing mods, IE 1 10% speed mod gives 10% then the next gives 5% then 2.5%. You would still be able to make a full thick tank or full speed ship. But you would lose out on a lot of stat buffs in other areas, hopefully encouraging more mixed builds.

 

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42 minutes ago, Aster said:

There have been lots of ideas thrown about on this issue. Personally I like diminishing mods, IE 1 10% speed mod gives 10% then the next gives 5% then 2.5%. You would still be able to make a full thick tank or full speed ship. But you would lose out on a lot of stat buffs in other areas, hopefully encouraging more mixed builds.

 

Shut it newb

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I think no mods would be a bad surprise for many "skilled" Captains, because it would become much harder to win against bigger numbers. Most active PVP-Players use mods heavily, willing or just able to risk more than the "carebear", this is imho the main reason for victory against "bigger" enemys ... (Yeah i know, its all skill XD! But my experience in games without mods is, that's like real life: a knight gets defeated by 2 pikeneers ...)

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I made a Topic in German Sub-forum about the Ships and there woodtyp.

I asked if we need those many Woodtyps.

Why we can not make more like, build a Cutter in Oak/Oak, Lynx in Fir/Oak ...... so you need some woodtyps for some Ships but without any effect on basic-data in general only more like a cosmetic feature to build a Coni you need LiveOak and Oak and for a Aga somthink like Teak/Oak but u will have basic-data from ships like now. In crafting there shoud be a small difference by the side of the Crafter in Speed or HP and Turnrate but not as significant like it is right now only by 0.1-0.25% or something. So that the basic Ship will be more balanced.

Next step shoud be to lower the modules and skillbook power, id shoud be more like Legends you can unlock on your ship modules and upgrades but not with such a big boost.

The current meta is build Fast ships for Ow-PvP, and Strong-ships for RvR/PB.

If you sail on a Oak/Oak build Renomee and some comes with a Fir/Fir Phantasy Wasa with a Firwood-afterburneer or something else its not well balanced but it feels wrong i my opinion.

The Ships shoud more get a Roll for what the are like it was in Feb2016. Renomee/Trinco/Endy as lets say Hunters, Coni ,Frig and BellePoul Supporter and 4th rate up to 1st rates for brawls.

I hope you understand what i mean because my english is not the best sry.

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9 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Cookie cutter ships are boring. The current thickness meta in PB speed meta in OW is even getting sterile in my opinion.

It will always get to the "sterile" point as players figure out the optimal builds. We can limit how much frikkin' pve grinding we have to do to get our hands on a competitive ship, though.

 

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

That's funny, you seem to have no problem trying to impose your anti-PvE stance on everyone else's OW experience

Oh, no! Buddy! I may be pure anti-PvE but if people want to bully bots they should be able to until they choke. I just want casual players that can't compete with the power-grinders to get a competitive ship.

 

8 hours ago, Wraith said:

how PvE content somehow magically reduces the PvP content available.

The magic, as you say, lies in the individual and collective psychology. The fear of loss due to massive grinds to build a good ship makes people timid and scared of risking losing it. That fear also amplifies ganking and griefing. The pain of loss nudges many players closer to quitting and giving up which in turn hurts server pop and that is never a good thing if you like PvP.

Wade brought up AW and AH in his post and those games are good examples of the extreme pure-pvp way of doing things. We know there is extremely little timidness there. There are no equal fights, a bunch of ganking and cherry picking and since there are no rules you have the odd guy griefing. Since there is no loss people don't react so negatively. People routinely choose to stay and fight even if outnumbered and everyone can find a fight within 15 minutes, primetime or not.

^These are facts, if you don't believe me ask Wade.

Making OW less loss averse will make pvp happen more.

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If you cant modify the ships, everyone would simply the sail the same ship IE the current best one,  instead of trying different ones with different load outs

Edited by Fletch67

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37 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

If you cant modify the ships, everyone would simply the sail the same ship IE the current best one

 

10 hours ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

The current thickness meta in PB speed meta in OW is even getting sterile in my opinion.

___

Fletch, we don't want to take away ship modifications, we just want to move as much as possible south side of the PvE grind wall.

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42 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

If you cant modify the ships, everyone would simply the sail the same ship IE the current best one,  instead of trying different ones with different load outs

What IF all the options were included in the shipwright ? The ship would be built with whatever woods, and also have some specification added, as per captain request.

( USA Navy of run up to 1812 comes to mind with captains being present during the entire process of building the ship )

 

 

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42 minutes ago, jodgi said:

 

___

Fletch, we don't want to take away ship modifications, we just want to move as much as possible south side of the PvE grind wall.

You will most likely want to shoot me, but I enjoy leveling up each ship, it makes me want to use different ones, there is hardly enough content in the game now without removing all that.

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1 minute ago, Fletch67 said:

You will most likely want to shoot me, but I enjoy leveling up each ship,

Game offers a age of sail experience in a predetermined scenario. Each player finds its way. No one will shoot you.

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7 minutes ago, Fletch67 said:

there is hardly enough content in the game now

PvP is the gift that never stops giving. Drink PvP and ye shall never thirst. 

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Yep, still waiting for the RNG loot crap to go away, limited repairs to return, and mindless ship grind to go away so I can get back to playing.....I must admit, I thought it would take less time for you guys to unf**k your game than it has.

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It's a problem... 

Ship mods/upgrades are now more important than the ship itself.. Yep this again..

 The mod stacking is back too, but why? We've tested that in 2015 and it was just stupid and it ruined the game, why go back to it?

Screenshot_18.png.f0b9da0ed8b982a214323fb7d4af9ae5.png

2015^

It's the same thing, but we just gave the mods different names and added a negative stat or two (no biggie).

 

 I thought we had a server for PVE grind, unless they are planning to close it.  Reinforcement zones and grindable AI mods shouldn't be on a PvP server.  This isn't PoTBs. Or is it? :.p

Edited by Sureshot

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I like mods and knowledges. If I'm 1v1 with a ship the same as mine I want our 'builds' and skill to matter. 

I want to pimp my 5th rates so that I can make them viable in PvP when facing higher rates. 

I don't like over stacking speed or thickness to the point that doing anything else is not viable. 

My clan mate stacked repair amount recently and it worked shockly well. 

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