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jodgi

Win/loss/draw requirements

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I'm only at the larger frigates but noticing that the timer often runs out with ships still alive. Maybe this is even worse with the bigger ships? Anyway, if there still are ships left when the timer runs out what should decide win, loss or draw (which is simply loss for both sides)?

Here's a pic as a talking point:

eba6cc6e0fe4c8e48584fc115577e9c9.png

I tried to get to cap but the bot was following me, I tried to speed up his demise by boarding but one broadside had me sinking. So these two bots were shooting at eachother beyond effective range and only within the last three minutes did they close the distance and did actual damage.

BR each side is equal at the moment the timer ran out.

Health remaining is in our team's favor, this could be used to decide win/loss but it isn't the best candidate.

Our team has the most kills, also not a good deciding factor.

Our team has more points (lower right corner), could that be used to make a draw (loss/loss) into a win or loss?

We could make an undecided outcome (draw or loss/loss) into half a win for both teams in terms of xp payout.

I've had a match timer run out with a clear BR weight in favor of my team and the outcome was still "loss". @M G can confirm. (I F11'd it)

Some undecided matches are ok, but by design they should be rather rare; think in the range 1-5%. One team is dissappointed in a win/lose situation but both teams are frustrated in a draw or lose/lose situation. We should limit frustration as much as possible.

How should we decide win/lose? BR weight? points?... other ideas?

Discuss...

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2 hours ago, jodgi said:

I'm only at the larger frigates but noticing that the timer often runs out with ships still alive. Maybe this is even worse with the bigger ships? Anyway, if there still are ships left when the timer runs out what should decide win, loss or draw (which is simply loss for both sides)?

Here's a pic as a talking point:

eba6cc6e0fe4c8e48584fc115577e9c9.png

I tried to get to cap but the bot was following me, I tried to speed up his demise by boarding but one broadside had me sinking. So these two bots were shooting at eachother beyond effective range and only within the last three minutes did they close the distance and did actual damage.

BR each side is equal at the moment the timer ran out.

Health remaining is in our team's favor, this could be used to decide win/loss but it isn't the best candidate.

Our team has the most kills, also not a good deciding factor.

Our team has more points (lower right corner), could that be used to make a draw (loss/loss) into a win or loss?

We could make an undecided outcome (draw or loss/loss) into half a win for both teams in terms of xp payout.

I've had a match timer run out with a clear BR weight in favor of my team and the outcome was still "loss". @M G can confirm. (I F11'd it)

Some undecided matches are ok, but by design they should be rather rare; think in the range 1-5%. One team is dissappointed in a win/lose situation but both teams are frustrated in a draw or lose/lose situation. We should limit frustration as much as possible.

How should we decide win/lose? BR weight? points?... other ideas?

Discuss...

Yea it is a problem.  When you are in a Basic Line even more so.  If you run out of time you lose no matter what, both sides.  The Runner Player base knows this and knows it well. SO when you are in a Line Ship with other players, it will go distance and noone wins or you will be caped out with no real xp earned.   They nerfed how bow Chasers worked long time ago in OW because the carebears cried so much, then also gave then lasers for rear guns so they could have a 75% chance of getting away.  This has been a problem forever, but don't hold your breath for them to fix it. SO really nothing anyone can do at all that wants a fight.  We have to deal with Fights that last over an hour, that noone wins and get hardly no xp.

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I wonder if with no AI this would take so long.

Players who stand and fight will mostly die...players who run get capped.

So the only super drawn out ones will be with a 1-1 where 1 player chooses to run...for this, the only thing I could think off would be the RING OF DEATH...but a draw is a valid result sometimes...in saying that it should also be on POINTS and only a draw if both sides are equal.

 

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1 hour ago, Jeheil said:

I wonder if with no AI this would take so long.

Players who stand and fight will mostly die...players who run get capped.

So the only super drawn out ones will be with a 1-1 where 1 player chooses to run...for this, the only thing I could think off would be the RING OF DEATH...but a draw is a valid result sometimes...in saying that it should also be on POINTS and only a draw if both sides are equal.

 

It not matter people will draw game out and make it so you can't win.  I played 5 games today so far, and out of those 5, 4 went the distance with a no one winning Even players, I some what respect would rather make sure you lose than get a win. They have no kills, All my AI are still kicking but,  I have sunk everything else and they make it so I can't win and think they accomplished something.  Everything That people are having problems with, was talk about and ignored prior to NA-L being opened up to all NA players.

I could care less about the W/L at end of match.  The wasted time, the grieving players and then bragging about it.  At this rate the game is dead by Jan 1.

There is a reason WoW made a Hard wall on the out of bounds.

There is a reason they only have 2 circles on a huge map.

They have carebear'ed ow so bad, that they made this game only fun to the people that enjoy, making other people miserable. Come on, laser chain shot in the rear but I can't hit your sails or slow you down at all using bow chasers.  and chase for an hour.  Yea Game is DOA, soon as more people get better ships by 1st of Jan, most will be in lines and will not play anymore.  

The list keeps going. But I don't want to waste more of my time, on shit they are not going to fix this week.

The event is a whole other beast.

  • The event should go off every hour or/maybe 2.  You sign up with your boat you want to use. Very simple, but right now people are just using it as a excuse to grief players.  By running and forcing a lose on other players, by forcing time, and making sure they get no win, and make sure people don't get kills.  Its like going to the Disney Land and the only ride that is open is the teapot ride.     
  • I may need to start posting matches on You tube and link them to Steam So people know what they are getting into.
Edited by JobaSet

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3 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

Yea Game is DOA,

Calm down, please. It's fixable, bow/stern chasers and all.

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11 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Calm down, please. It's fixable, bow/stern chasers and all.

What I said, is...." Yea Game is DOA, soon as more people get better ships by 1st of Jan, most will be in lines and will not play anymore."  They have time to fix it but they have had months and have done nothing.  It not like we were not bitching about this on day one of closed alpha. 

Easy fix is to swap the chain bow and stern chasers.  As only Runners will use them in the rear.

Edited by JobaSet

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Or make it so the team with the most points WINS (not both lose in a draw).

Add in a PUGB type circle that shrinks (a bit) in the last 15 mins.

Fix the repair sails bug and as you say swap out rear cannons for front cannons...so you can run but not for long.

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4 minutes ago, Jeheil said:

Or make it so the team with the most points WINS (not both lose in a draw). This would work as Chasing someone with no chance of ever catching them,  is the Carebear mechanic that was added.  But I can still keep them out of one Circle and win by points eventually. The problem, is 3 circles

Add in a PUGB type circle that shrinks (a bit) in the last 15 mins.  I don't see this happening, (Wishful thinking) but I can see them put in a out of bound wall. like they did in 1st week of WoW testing.

Fix the repair sails bug and as you say swap out rear cannons for front cannons...so you can run but not for long. Duh! not sure how this was not fixed already.

Anyone notice a Pattern to all the problems we are having in NA-L right now.  If not, once 50% of players get into line ships you will. Just saying

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If we look at World of Warships (and indeed World of Tanks) there are a couple of elements

1) The map is finite...there is a wall

2) The game clock is finite...forcing combat

3) They have done alot of tuning so that if you hold a 2:1 or 3:2 circle advantage you will win 80% into the game clock.

Now our game is 'slower' and our ships are 'more durable' so the time will be longer. But put a cap at 45 mins (made up), tune the circles accordingly and put either land or EVEN BETTER shallows around the map. Shallows coz wall hugging is annoying BUT NOT AS ANNOYING as being in shallows :)

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2 hours ago, Jeheil said:

If we look at World of Warships (and indeed World of Tanks) there are a couple of elements

1) The map is finite...there is a wall

2) The game clock is finite...forcing combat

3) They have done alot of tuning so that if you hold a 2:1 or 3:2 circle advantage you will win 80% into the game clock.

Now our game is 'slower' and our ships are 'more durable' so the time will be longer. But put a cap at 45 mins (made up), tune the circles accordingly and put either land or EVEN BETTER shallows around the map. Shallows coz wall hugging is annoying BUT NOT AS ANNOYING as being in shallows :)

I remember beta test WoT when they didn't have a wall.(the days of free gold)

Even WoW didn't have walls years later. That lasted like a week maybe

Shallows would work around map, but this will take time for them to do, I am not so sure they have enough time to do it, before people bail. NA rocked when it came out and then they catered to the Vocal few. Took a long time for everyone to give up on NA because of the time invested in game.  That is not true here,  I myself, almost walked away from it today, and I have a lot of time in this game more than most.

The thing here is, people are just plain stupid in this game and NA, if they think they can't win, They just give up or they assume it is more fun to aggravate people by griefing them.

I going to give it more time, I got the inger after tonight and at the very lest finish off the last 3 ships I don't have 5 slots in(maybe 2 not sure i want to play trinc ever again).

 

Edited by JobaSet

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I just thougth of some Features how you could decide who wins and lose.. 

Implement some "SuddenDeath" mechanics a few Minutes befor the Timer ends:

- All ships Start Sinking (yeah out of nowhere) --> you need a good Pump and enough Crew to survive longer than your Enemys

- A Giant Wave Approach from a Random Direction and crush every Ship it Hits (Monsterwave with ~15-30m high) --> you could run for your live to win (well the Wave is realy fast!)

- A Storm apperas and all remaining Ships will get hit by Thunderlightning and Burn to death (Start Fire with a Fireshock and so high that Structure is eaten away)

 

or some closing Circles as recommended.

 

But if this is too Futuristic, then just decide the Winner by count the Remaining Crew/ Cannons/ Total Dammage dealt to Hull/ BR or somthing.

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