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Forthcoming patch 14 Part 3

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4 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

If you are a halfway decent sailor, you won't. Lol

I think he was more meaning he was going to /TRY/ to flip it.  Hell I plan to try to flip one just for fun.

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16 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

I have a feeling they screwed something up royally and are scrambling to fix it. This smells of business as usual lol.

 

I got the same feeling when 90 mins turned into 2 hours and no patch notes posted.  They been pretty fast on the patch notes lately.  Than no responce here but @admin has been answering other post like in the Russian section.  Just would be nice to get an update even if it's just, "We got to work on some more stuff before merge, but here is what got patched this morning."

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2 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Hell I plan to try to flip one just for fun.

I assume this "feature" is not yet well implemented and needs a lot of tweaks (as other "features" still need). So in the beginning it shouldn't be a problem to flip ships at will :D

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It makes sense that the timers roll out at least a day ahead of the merge.

Otherwise we mean global players would nightflip every port before Euros could restrict them.

Edited by Farrago

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8 minutes ago, Farrago said:

It makes sense that the timers roll out at least a day ahead of the merge.

Otherwise we mean global players would nightflip every port before Euros could restrict them.

The fear is real.  LOL, #NoSuchThingAsNightFlipsOnAGlobalServer

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17 minutes ago, Farrago said:

It makes sense that the timers roll out at least a day ahead of the merge.

Otherwise we mean global players would nightflip every port before Euros could restrict them.

We have been waiting months to invade EU server and take control!!!!!!   :D

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2 hours ago, z4ys said:

Tell me what do you create on bow/stern pointing in movement direction?

A wave that is going upwards on the ship hull On the oder side you have a wake. What will the wave do when doing 7kn backwards? pushing the rudder out of its holder?

I agree that with the 1kn normal speed in clam weather nothing will happen but we have no clam weather in NA nor are we doing only 1kn backwards.

 

When I watch real square riggers tacking they do it in clam sea and not with 7kn backwards and I bet its not without a reason.

 

So tell me what happens when the ship is sailing forwards at 8 knots, and is struck square on the counter by a 25-foot wave traveling at 30 kts, and the stern is lifted bodily into the air?

If shipbuilders were total freaking morons, as you seem to imagine, then the rudder would 'float away' in the above situation.

Victory-stern_6733.jpg

Or, maybe they weren't morons.

No one in NA makes 7 kts backwards when tacking. More like 2kts.

 

Tacking was difficult in heavy seas because the waves would tend to throw the bow off the wind at the most critical moment.

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5 minutes ago, maturin said:

No one in NA makes 7 kts backwards when tacking.

Not tacking. Actually on purpose and keeping the yards manually always on the eye. A 44 gun frigate can very fast reach 5 knots in a blink of an eye and actually escape a boarding action being prepared.

 

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2 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Okay then. Would think the billowing would limit any wind spill whereas a flat will spill most outwards.

Thanks for answer.

On the other hand, when trying to sail backwards at 90 degrees, you are relying on sails creating lift, not just drag. So in that situation the sail's shape would be terrible, with the mast and shrouds distorting it.

But last I checked, it was not possible to sail fast on that course in-game anyhow.

8 kts backwards is pretty extreme. As a complete guess, I'd say that's only likely to happen in high winds when you will probably regret trying it. In a violent squall the stern windows could be smashed in, flooding the gundeck.

The main consideration is that you can tear the rudder off when going astern at speed. If a ship knew it was going to make serious sternway, the rudder would be jammed amidships using wooden wedges.

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5 minutes ago, maturin said:

So tell me what happens when the ship is sailing forwards at 8 knots, and is struck square on the counter by a 25-foot wave traveling at 30 kts, and the stern is lifted bodily into the air?

If shipbuilders were total freaking morons, as you seem to imagine, then the rudder would 'float away' in the above situation.

Victory-stern_6733.jpg

Or, maybe they weren't morons.

No one in NA makes 7 kts backwards when tacking. More like 2kts.

 

Tacking was difficult in heavy seas because the waves would tend to throw the bow off the wind at the most critical moment.

Whats the purpose of the chain again? A right it should keep the rudder towed to the ship when it got out of the holder ;-)

surprise isnt even a good downwind sailer try that with a  good downwind sailer

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1 minute ago, z4ys said:

Whats the purpose of the chain again? A right it should keep the rudder towed to the ship when it got out of the holder ;-)

You're just making s**t up. Show me one instance of a rudder just "floating away."

Look at the picture. The rudder's head protrudes *into* the stern of the ship. The midshipmen lived right next to it and the large tiller.

The chains are for back-up steering when the tiller or its tackles are broken.

 

Quote

surprise isnt even a good downwind sailer try that with a  good downwind sailer

What's your point? The quick acceleration/deceleration is cartoonish and exaggerated, but it's only 5 knots in the best case scenario. The underwater shape of the stern is very fine, almost like a bow on some modern boats. They based it on the tail of a fish, gradually tapering to a point.

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The run (i.e. the area amidships to the stern) usually has finer lines than the entry as the bow had to be fuller to reduce pitching.

And the rudder 'floating away' made me laugh. Hard.

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4 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Constitution:repairing is half correct. They had used all the gunpowder charges, iirc some 70 broadsides, and were refilling.

Notice wear and tack times.

Also, most of the combat was not at Full sail if even at any given time.

;)

 

 

She stood off to repair the damage to her rigging mostly sail control lines like braces that had been shot away or damaged when the ships got entangled.

4 hours ago, Jœrnson said:

And she lost her rudder which had to be repaired ;)

Her wheel not her rudder. They steered using tiller ropes below deck for the rest of the battle. Had her rudder been shot away the outcome of the battle may well have been different.

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To be clear,  the rudder can be damaged by bad weather or collisions (with iron spheres or planetary spheres, whichever), just like any other component. But to actually be in danger of falling off, the head of the rudder needs to be destroyed inside the ship's stern itself, or the attendant fittings dislodged.

The first use of the rudder chains would be to prevent the rudder from straining the pintles by turning too far. An emergency backstop.

If the rudder actually broke at the head (inside the ship), then the chains could be rigged for steering by pulling on the rudder from outboard.

And if everything before that failed, and the rudder was actually broken off (probably by grounding), then of course the chains might still be attached.

On HMS Victory, the head of the rudder was used as a dinner table.

 

Quote

She stood off to repair the damage to her rigging mostly sail control lines like braces that had been shot away or damaged when the ships got entangled.

I hadn't looked at that diagram too closely before. Interesting how you can see Constitution wearing round in 10 minutes to fire again, while Java is still stuck luffing up.

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11 minutes ago, maturin said:

...

Lets try it the other way. What do you think about ships doing 6kn - 7kn + and more backwards? That means they are sailing faster backwards than forward? Why no real captain did that? Should there be a penalty for doing so in the game? Like rudder decay etc?

Edited by z4ys

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Just now, z4ys said:

 That means they are sailing faster backwards than forward?

What are you talking about? In my game I can sail 12 kts on the slowest ship. 6 > 12 ???

Ships did sail backwards as a tactical maneuver. Constitution v. Cyane and Levant (British ship names IIRC). The packet ship dreadknought sailed 250 miles backwards in an emergency, and it wasn't going 2 kts the whole time.

6 kts is really fast, but none of these battles were fought at 14 kts either, so why doesn't that bother you? Everything is relative, and exaggerated or diminished to a varying extent, according to the needs of gameplay.

 

And yes, there should be a good chance of breaking the rudder if we use A/D keys when sailing backwards at >3 kts.

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9 minutes ago, z4ys said:

they are sailing faster backwards than forward

It could be fun as an April fool's joke. Please, devs, consider it for a 1st April 2018 fake patch ;-)

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It is not uncommon in complex games for odd results to show in the most great implementations 

Could it be that it is a unintended artificial way of high sternway speed - let's say 5 knots - , maybe concerning the momentum gain ( you can go from full stop to 5 knots in 5 seconds just by properly putting the yards and drop all stays and jibs ) to overcome a credible RL simulated difficulty as presented by the game ?! After all we go out and test all this stuff under duress of cannon fire :) 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

Her wheel not her rudder. 

Pls forgive me my vague definition. English is not my mother language. But the wheel is part of rudder mechanism still :)

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2 minutes ago, Jœrnson said:

Pls forgive me my vague definition. English is not my mother language. But the wheel is part of rudder mechanism still :)

NP:)  We can just call the whole thing the "steering mechanism". 

History part: The wheel that the ship has on it now was taken from the HMS Java  after the battle.

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19 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Lets try it the other way. What do you think about ships doing 6kn - 7kn + and more backwards? That means they are sailing faster backwards than forward? Why no real captain did that? Should there be a penalty for doing so in the game? Like rudder decay etc?

One of the problems in game is that it is done at full sails to get that high speed backwards when irl unless the wind was very light you wouldn't want to risk damage to the masts/rigging with the sails aback against the masts.

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2 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

One of the problems in game is that it is done at full sails to get that high speed backwards when irl unless the wind was very light you wouldn't want to risk damage to the masts/rigging with the sails aback against the masts.

 

4 hours ago, z4ys said:

there is only realism where its suits best

 

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Regarding transfer from Global to Caribbean...

Have the Devs mentioned ship XP combining? For example, if I have 18000 XP on a Surprise in Global and 6000 Surprise XP already on Euro, will I then have 24,000 Surprise XP?

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24 minutes ago, Farrago said:

Regarding transfer from Global to Caribbean...

Have the Devs mentioned ship XP combining? For example, if I have 18000 XP on a Surprise in Global and 6000 Surprise XP already on Euro, will I then have 24,000 Surprise XP?

If I had to guess?  Yes.

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