Basics

[Jesters-Ink]

What makes a good game, worthy of your time investment to play?
This is the question each player answers subconsciously and every time they boot up their computer to play right before they click on the game of their choice.

They ask themselves, is the grind worth it, is the time investment worth it, what can I achieve in the time I have available playing said game. and what will the game reward me with.

What does NA have to offer me/you?

There must be a purpose/reason/achievement. 

As developers, you should ask yourselves, are you fulfilling the needs of your community? If the answer is yes, then your player base grows, if it is in decline, then the answer is no.

There are many aspects of NA that appeal to a wide variety of player types. You can trade, you can craft, you can combat PvP/PvE and you can do all of these as a single player, a small group, or as a clan. So this sounds good and not bad right? So we have to ask, why is the game in constant conflict? Simple reason is this, balance. Time investment for the above mentioned activities potentially renders the loss of assets to be too great for the average player. This is one thing. The player base is toxic, win or lose, you will experience this. We play for rewards, so if these are low for the time investment, then your player base will be in constant flux. Devs:- you gave higher payouts for open world combat and this got some players back. So maybe more moves along these lines will help grow your player base. You delete a server because of diminishing numbers, this does not solve the problem, it hides it. Unless more of a balance is found, you should expect the same situation on the EU server.

Bring out your popcorn, bring on the flame.  

 

 

[seanjo]

It's a niche game, it's not going to appeal to COD players.

[Slim McSauce]

1 minute ago, seanjo said:

It's a niche game, it's not going to appeal to COD players.

This is not an argument. There are plenty of niche titles that pull in many thousands of players a day.

[Guest]

Even easier?

I quit because OW PvP was dead with the reinforcement zones and the ease ruined any sense of progression that we had until then. Before the patch - never sailed anything larger than an Aga, ships mattered, a 1st rate was a prize. After the patch - first thing I did was build 5-6 1st rates with minimal effort, jump into the max rank fleet missions to reap a significant amount of combat marks and money with ease and zero, nada, nil risk. And that was that, that was the gameplay from then on, predictable, easy, safe...Boring.

So game over. But sure, make it easier, faster, simpler, shallower, that's the AAA mantra nowadays. Chuck some microtransactions and paid DLCs on top too.

[Jesters-Ink]

Yes because I said make it easier? No I did not. I said, make it more rewarding.

The game is fine if you want to play with the other 80 to 100 players who will remain.

And you already quit anyway.

[seanjo]

3 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

This is not an argument. There are plenty of niche titles that pull in many thousands of players a day.

You're right, it's not an argument, it's a fact, and your objections won't change that.

[BallsOfSteel]

PVP needs to be available within certain ports in a manner such as duels and tournaments  with roughly even BR. 

Content such as raids, exploration etc random discoveries  is needed as many are at the end game.

The benefit for being a level 50 crafter? nothing. Not even a reward ship for the effort. 

PVP upgrades just make those camping  capitols to take on the weaker even stronger. I gotta admit every time I have taken place in attending a shallow water battle i am jumped by those in 4th rates and above, wheres the fun in that??? You should only be able to attack pb players in the same ships, dont give the the "Screening excuse" For shallow PB's its just easy pvp marks gained by doing nothing other than being on the route to be the pb in a much bigger ship.

Nov global are being moved into the EU server our ping goes up 40% we have all these nations an no knowledge of how the environment is. 

 

Its a wait and see now.

 

 

[Jesters-Ink]

11 hours ago, seanjo said:

It's a niche game, it's not going to appeal to COD players.

Niche game or not, plenty of people bought the game who have left already.

People don't buy a game because it's a niche game, they buy it because it appeals to them.

Its up to the developers to get it right to keep them interested and playing, this is a basic customer satisfaction requirement.

I want this game to succeed and I want it to be great, but it is being slowly bludgeoned to death by a selfish community who are at the top of the food chain and want to remain there. Whilst new players come into the game and either get killed in their spawn area or taunted out of the game. Congratulations you top 10%, soon you won't have a game to play.

Developers need to consider these facts, you already have a customer base, so why not grow it, instead of pandering to those who are already at the end game and are just trolling the new players?

Other games with a high PvP content based combat system almost always have a side balancing mechanic.

There has to be a way to counter a nation rocking up with twice as many ships and clubbing the enemy before they even make port battles. If you don't think this is a problem, then the game is already over. Simple maths, you have to ask yourself, if you have the choice to fight against the odds every time you play, would you bother day in day out, or would you start to play less?

Maybe points should be based on damage delivered, not on sinking or aiding sinking, so even the players getting sunk get something out of a fight?

Food for thought gentlemen.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Jesters-Ink

[jodgi]

12 hours ago, Jesters-Ink said:

What makes a good game, worthy of your time investment to play?
This is the question each player answers subconsciously and every time they boot up their computer to play right before they click on the game of their choice.

Is it easy to find other players that want to fight? I ask no other questions, I care for no other thing, everything else is entirely insignificant. 

[jodgi]

Just now, rediii said:

NAL is for you.

NA has to be about something else. If you make it as stupjd as now that everything is easy for fast pvp its just a bad NAL and nothing else.

Crafting, trading, hauling, logistics in general, tactics before the battle and setup of your fleet has to matter and not be something thats getting easier with every patch until the OW is a bad balancer.

 

Yes, I'm really happy for NAL.

I enjoyed OW when there was nothing to do but fight.

[jodgi]

44 minutes ago, rediii said:

The thing why NA is in such a bad position is because of exactly that. It was tried to also attract arenaplayers

Do you really think we caused so much trouble to make it a "bad position"? 

It may be perception bias but to me it seems there is a lot more negative noise coming from sandbox=eco fans and now you RvR types. I don't mean to liken you to the eco dudes because you seem to have enjoyed what you enjoy up until now. The eco dudes can never get enough and won't be satisfied until we're full on EVE or beyond. I've seen positive posts from OW hunters and RvR fans among the negative posts, but I've never seen an eco guy that seems satisfied.

It's weird that people say OW needs more players to work while at the same time being adamant about not accomodating pure-pvp'ers with note ships, pvp exclusive rewards, premium loss-exempt ships, admiralty career path and other things that would help us avoid gameplay we find boring.

The sandbox is only about freedom of choice as long as everyone gives up the right to avoid eco, eh?

 How can people complain about server population when they insist on making it very hard to recruit and keep pure-pvp'ers? The  devs have had the door open a crack towards these things but it is the sandbox=eco players who have helped close that door.  Now they come to the forum blaming the devs and demanding more players. They've helped make the bed but they refuse to sleep in it.

They imagine there are thousands of people beyond those already in OW and those who have tried OW but couldn't deal with the fun of eco. Good luck with that.

All the while we sit here on the fence waving, ready to come back if you just let off on the eco oppression.

[Slim McSauce]

22 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Do you really think we caused so much trouble to make it a "bad position"? 

It may be perception bias but to me it seems there is a lot more negative noise coming from sandbox=eco fans and now you RvR types. I don't mean to liken you to the eco dudes because you seem to have enjoyed what you enjoy up until now. The eco dudes can never get enough and won't be satisfied until we're full on EVE or beyond. I've seen positive posts from OW hunters and RvR fans among the negative posts, but I've never seen an eco guy that seems satisfied.

It's weird that people say OW needs more players to work while at the same time being adamant about not accomodating pure-pvp'ers with note ships, pvp exclusive rewards, premium loss-exempt ships, admiralty career path and other things that would help us avoid gameplay we find boring.

The sandbox is only about freedom of choice as long as everyone gives up the right to avoid eco, eh?

 How can people complain about server population when they insist on making it very hard to recruit and keep pure-pvp'ers? The  devs have had the door open a crack towards these things but it is the sandbox=eco players who have helped close that door.  Now they come to the forum blaming the devs and demanding more players. They've helped make the bed but they refuse to sleep in it.

They imagine there are thousands of people beyond those already in OW and those who have tried OW but couldn't deal with the fun of eco. Good luck with that.

All the while we sit here on the fence waving, ready to come back if you just let off on the eco oppression.

This game does pure PVP in the same sense DayZ is pure PVP. Yes you can just pvp, but you'll have to gear up first which SHOULD be half the fun but apparently people don't like advancing in an MMO. I don't know if its because eco isn't fun or these people belong in legends. Either way there's something missing that keeps a navy captains career from being lucrative enough to self sustain, and notes shouldn't be included. Nothing should be 100% un attached from the eco/mmo side of things.

[Hethwill]

Rock beats fireaxe. Skillzzzzz... 

[jodgi]

29 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Nothing should be 100% un attached from the eco/mmo side of things.

Why not?

Also eco =/= mmo. I know the remaining pop loves eco regardless of what it does to the game.

19 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Rock beats fireaxe. Skillzzzzz... 

Is this a joke only eco guys would get? I don't even know if it's directed at slim, me or something else...

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, jodgi said:

Why not?

Also eco =/= mmo. I know the remaining pop loves eco regardless of what it does to the game.

MMOs rely on player interaction, if I can go through PVP without buying any ships from ship crafter ship crafters become worthless. What's the valuet of an eco, trading, crafting if I can summon a ship of any valuable wood out of my ass?

Just now, jodgi said:

Is this a joke only eco guys would get? I don't even know if it's directed at slim, me or something else...

It speaks to the glorious logic that is DayZ PVP, or atleast I assume so 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Hethwill]

DayZ, the same way as NA, is a sandbox that relies heavily on a patch from experience to experience. Encounters are always different.

In that regard, and also travel time, they are similar. Likewise, killing bot ships or killing zombies is... rinse and repeat. Fairly similar.

It is the pvp interaction that provides the tension, that moment story. Same as with a air combat sim on a battlefield scenario rather than arena scenario.

[Hethwill]

7 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Is this a joke only eco guys would get?

DayZ reference regarding "must have gear to survive". I prove that nope... not really.

[Jesters-Ink]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

DayZ, the same way as NA, is a sandbox that relies heavily on a patch from experience to experience. Encounters are always different.

In that regard, and also travel time, they are similar. Likewise, killing bot ships or killing zombies is... rinse and repeat. Fairly similar.

It is the pvp interaction that provides the tension, that moment story. Same as with a air combat sim on a battlefield scenario rather than arena scenario.

Quite right, but both suffer from the same lack rewards wouldn't you say for the loser? Both games not doing so well in numbers, what could be the reason  ?

 

[Slim McSauce]

6 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

DayZ, the same way as NA, is a sandbox that relies heavily on a patch from experience to experience. Encounters are always different.

In that regard, and also travel time, they are similar. Likewise, killing bot ships or killing zombies is... rinse and repeat. Fairly similar.

It is the pvp interaction that provides the tension, that moment story. Same as with a air combat sim on a battlefield scenario rather than arena scenario.

NA could a lot away from DayZ (the mod, not the standalone)

DayZ Epoch specifically. Retains the hardcore-ness of normal DayZ, but with an eco focus.

For example, there's a hub where everyone can safely go and hang out and buy stuff and do whatever. This is comparable to capitals.

Then there is the ouside world, player made bases and such which are brutal and exciting. This is comparable to normal ports.

the more of the map map that is part of this safe hub, the less potential fun and excitement. As long as the hubs are there and don't take up too much space, they don't get in the way and feel like a good part of the game

Edited December 15, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Hethwill]

8 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Quite right, but both suffer from the same lack rewards wouldn't you say for the loser? Both games not doing so well in numbers, what could be the reason  ?

 

I play a game to have an experience. That is my reward Sir. DayZ for the perma death survival. NA for the naval age of sail.

DayZ has a lot, a lot of unique players across a month. Same as with NA.

[Jesters-Ink]

1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

I play a game to have an experience. That is my reward Sir. DayZ for the perma death survival. NA for the naval age of sail.

Thats excellent, lets hope all the other players do too.

[Hethwill]

7 minutes ago, Jesters-Ink said:

Thats excellent, lets hope all the other players do too.

Depends on the expectations. I have my vision of the most awesome NA of all times, alas it is what it is. And many other players like it too.

[Jesters-Ink]

17 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

And many other players like it too.

Like I said, I hope enough do.

[jodgi]

48 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Same as with a air combat sim on a battlefield scenario rather than arena scenario.

That's where I come from. Big maps, RvR, planning, coordination, cooperation, role-play, war, ingress - attack - egress, reenactment, group fights, duels both planned and spontaneous. You could do what you wanted. No eco in sight. I thought NA OW would be like that and looked forward to it.

eco is the largest single factor of us losing the players we say we need so much.

I'm a Legends player, sure, but I don't joke when I say I'm available for OW play. I simply have limits to the shit I'm willing to wade through.

[Hethwill]

No discussion there Jodgi. The coded experience in something like a TaW battlefield for IL-2 of SoW for Cliffs is exactly that. Experience the "life" of a pilot during combat operations in ww2, one day at a time, events of 2 or 3 hours.

Arena server not really my thing, I like to experience a specific day, a specific operation. In NA I like to design a character that will experience several adventures.

At the moment some of those are gone. Corsair character is impossible to play, there's no trade wars. Hence going back to a redesign as a navy officer, learning from others and acting under their command is what is left.

To put it in perspective - oh such long times to sail - ingress to achieve some of the "targets for today" may take well over half an hour from the moment all squadrons are assembled at altitude.

With NA we have it different. It is no Career experience and is true sandbox from the moment the character is born. Other "similar" experience games do resort in - this is your assignment, this is your task - oh and 1 life events.