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Iroquois Confederacy

Map of Reinforcement Zones

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For the last time, here is your answer: safe zones were put in the game not only to protect newbies and missioners of all factions (except the new hardcore ones) but also in order to let the nations defined as "easy" (USA, Spain and GB) harvest and trade to their capital safely all the basic resources (thus excluding rare woods, gold and silver) needed for crafting ships and cannons.

Edited by victor

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8 minutes ago, victor said:

For the last time, here is your answer: safe zones were put in the game not only to protect newbies and missioners of all factions (except the new hardcore ones) but also in order to let the nations defined as "easy" (USA, Spain and GB) harvest and trade to their capital safely all the basic resources (thus excluding rare woods, gold and silver) needed for crafting ships and cannons.

Then explain to me the safe zones near Louisiana, the coast of Mexico and the Yucatan Peninsula.

No national capitals anywhere near there.

Also, some nations safe zones are completely disproportionate to other nations, such as the US, Spain and Great Britain.

And some nations have safe zones on places far away from the capital  (Spain, GB, France.)

In comparison, the safe zones of the Danes, Swedish, Pirates and Dutch are way smaller

 

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28 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

I'd suggest the following, by an example:

  • Restrict "Safe Zones" to Province Capitals.
  • Maximum 3 "Safe Zones" allowed (or 4, if you don't count the nation capital)
  • Any other provinces captured after this will not get any "Safe Zone" anymore. (maximum of 3 (or 4) is reached)
  • This gives a sense of strategy to the conquering of provinces.
  • Order of conquest determines which Provincial Capitals becomes "Safe Zones"
  • The whole province needs to be in your nations hands before the capital becomes a "Safe Zone"
  • When a port is lost in a province with a "Safe Zone", that "Safe Zone" disappears until the port can be recaptured and the whole province is under 1 nations control again.

 

Example below for the Dutch Nation:

Willemstad is the main Capital, so it's a safe zone.

  • When the whole province of Caracas is conquered, the port Caracas becomes a "Safe Zone".
  • When the whole province of Cumana is conquered, the port Cumana becomes a "Safe Zone".
  • When a port in any of these provinces is lost, the Capital loses the "Safe Zone" until the port is recaptured.

bTQuOiw2.jpg

i can agree on the idea ,but

the main capital keeps  his save zone all time

otherwise, the young captains will be hunt down over and over again

and that is something we must occure

 

Edited by Thonys

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Just now, Thonys said:

i can agree on the idea ,but

the main capital keeps  his save zone all time

ofcourse, the nation capital stays a safe zone always.

But i would suggest a maximum of 3 safe zones besides the one from the nation's capital

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1 minute ago, Yngvarr said:

ofcourse, the nation capital stays a safe zone always.

But i would suggest a maximum of 3 safe zones besides the one from the nation's capital

or maybe 2 save zones that also fine with me 

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12 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

Then explain to me the safe zones near Louisiana, the coast of Mexico and the Yucatan Peninsula.

No national capitals anywhere near there.

Also, some nations safe zones are completely disproportionate to other nations, such as the US, Spain and Great Britain.

And some nations have safe zones on places far away from the capital  (Spain, GB, France.)

In comparison, the safe zones of the Danes, Swedish, Pirates and Dutch are way smaller

 

As the previous answer said these are for the nations designated as "easy". You have the easy nations with more safe zones, the medium difficulty with less and the hard nations with none.

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40 minutes ago, Archaos said:

As the previous answer said these are for the nations designated as "easy". You have the easy nations with more safe zones, the medium difficulty with less and the hard nations with none.

That's unbalanced. Why should nation difficulty be decided by safezones? That's not a good sandbox.

People who want to play US/GB/France and have a challenging time are being cheated, along with people playing dane/dutch/sweden who want less challenge.

Challenge should be from location and population, real logistics. Not from arbitrary, gamey safezones.

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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only people that complain about safezones are those looking for easy kills .. ie  they are looking for newbies or players only interested in pve/ trying to open up slots on ships

as a cavaete i would say there are a few that dont .. and they will ask if you want to fight before attacking .. which is fair enough ...

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Just now, Grundgemunkey said:

only people that complain about safezones are those looking for easy kills .. ie  they are looking for newbies or players only interested in pve/ trying to open up slots on ships

as a cavaete i would say there are a few that dont .. and they will ask if you want to fight before attacking .. which is fair enough ...

No one ask to get rid of them completely. Balancing nations by safezone is lazy and a bad sandbox. You can grind ship slots outside of capital completely safe, you don't need a dozen ports. I'd think you'd rather be completely safe inside capital then semi safe for many port lengths.

New players would benefit from a single, large capital greenzone that a vast reinforcement zone.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That's unbalanced. Why should nation difficulty be decided by safezones? That's not a good sandbox.

People who want to play US/GB/France and have a challenging time are being cheated, along with people playing dane/dutch/sweden who want less challenge.

Challenge should be from location and population, not from arbitrary, gamey safezones that prevent gameplay.

 

If it was a true sandbox then there would be no easy or hard nations, everyone would be the same. The Devs have decided to create different levels of difficulty in the game so if you join the game and want it easy you join one of the easy nations, if you want a challenging time and join an easy nation you only have yourself to blame.

How can someone joining a game new see if it is easier nation just by location and population as those are variables, a nation that is populous today may not be tomorrow same with the amount of ports they own.

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6 minutes ago, Archaos said:

If it was a true sandbox then there would be no easy or hard nations, everyone would be the same. The Devs have decided to create different levels of difficulty in the game so if you join the game and want it easy you join one of the easy nations, if you want a challenging time and join an easy nation you only have yourself to blame.

How can someone joining a game new see if it is easier nation just by location and population as those are variables, a nation that is populous today may not be tomorrow same with the amount of ports they own.

So basically you're saying the devs feel like US should be easy, therefore they are. That's horrible design, imaging if the E.V.E devs made a single faction better over the others for the sole reason they prefer that one. Your showing bias towards some nations, making them easier therefore giving them unfair advantage over others.

As for your second point, national difficulty levels were added before safezones were introduced. Obviously there's a sense of "Oh, US has a pretty easy time because they have a naturally isolated location away from other nations being located in N florida, and attract lots of players because the US is popular" It doesn't require safezones,
people are smart enough to figure what nations might be harder by just using common sense.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

No one ask to get rid of them completely. Balancing nations by safezone is lazy and a bad sandbox. You can grind ship slots outside of capital completely safe, you don't need a dozen ports. I'd think you'd rather be completely safe inside capital then semi safe for many port lengths.

i grind all my ships away from capital  and not even in a safe zone ... the safezone isnt as safe as you seem to think ... been dragged into ai battles by newbies inside " the safezone" on numerous occasions

the need for newbies to be able to gather resources and build their fleet is still there hence the need for more than one safezone ,,, or do you just want them all to leave the game in the first two weeks of starting

i dont understand what you mean by balancing nations ?   how do the safezones balance nations ?

 

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2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

So basically you're saying the devs feel like US should be easy, therefore they are. That's horrible design, imaging if the E.V.E devs made a single faction better over the others for the sole reason they prefer that one. Your showing bias towards some nations, making them easier therefore giving them unfair advantage over others.

As for your second point, national difficulty levels were added before safezones were introduced. Obviously there's a sense of "Oh, US has a pretty easy time because they have a naturally isolated location away from other nations being located in N florida, and attract lots of players because the US is popular" It doesn't require safezones,
people are smart enough to figure what nations might be harder by just using common sense.

not if they are new to the game ...you have no idea of who owns what or what is easy option when you make your initial selection .. other than the nations description on startb up

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Just now, Grundgemunkey said:

i grind all my ships away from capital  and not even in a safe zone ... the safezone isnt as safe as you seem to think ... been dragged into ai battles by newbies inside " the safezone" on numerous occasions

the need for newbies to be able to gather resources and build their fleet is still there hence the need for more than one safezone ,,, or do you just want them all to leave the game in the first two weeks of starting

i dont understand what you mean by balancing nations ?   how do the safezones balance nations ?

 

EXACTLY! 

these "reinforcement zones" are semi safe, new players need a single, large capital GREENZONE where they can't be attacked or attack, not large swaths of semi safe zone that don't work as well.

According to Archaos devs are using reinforcment zones to balance the nations, making some easy and some hard. That's not balanced at all.

Just now, Grundgemunkey said:

not if they are new to the game ...you have no idea of who owns what or what is easy option when you make your initial selection .. other than the nations description on startb up

precisely why map info and population numbers should be given on joining, or a new player nation added so players can learn the game before being thrusted into Nation V Nation

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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I think I've suggested a new player nation before. Make them neutral, can only be attacked by other neutrals,  once they want to join a nation, they need to sail to that capital and buy a recruitment letter. 

 

Edit

Of course people with alts will use this to sealclub or get resources easy. 

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1 minute ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I think I've suggested a new player nation before. Make them neutral, can only be attacked by other neutrals,  once they want to join a nation, they need to sail to that capital and buy a recruitment letter. 

 

Edit

Of course people with alts will use this to sealclub. 

Only attackable by other neutrals.

Thats so open for exploiting by alts I dont even explain it further. :D

 

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4 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

So basically you're saying the devs feel like US should be easy, therefore they are. That's horrible design, imaging if the E.V.E devs made a single faction better over the others for the sole reason they prefer that one. Your showing bias towards some nations, making them easier therefore giving them unfair advantage over others.

They have decided that some nations should be easier to play than others and to make them easier they have given them certain advantages, you now want there to be balancing so that everyone is the same. Its not an unfair advantage if you know that from the start. Like many other games there are different difficulty settings, in NA you cannot have that in the PvP fighting so they look at other ways to make certain factions easier. Would you rather they gave the easier nations better aiming, or more powerful cannons or buffed ships. You may not like the design but it is their game and they can decide how they want to implement difficulty. Sure you can complain about it and try and get them to change their minds but my original answer currently still stands that certain nations have extra ports because they are the so called "easy" nations.

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6 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

According to Archaos devs are using reinforcment zones to balance the nations, making some easy and some hard. That's not balanced at all.

They are not using them to balance, they are creating imbalance deliberately to make some nations easier than others. If you want to play full hardcore you play the new nations with no safe zones, you want it easier you choose a nation with multiple safe zones where if you want you never even have to leave the safe zone unless you want PvP. I do not totally agree that you should be able to do everything within the safe zone but currently that is the way it is designed.

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

EXACTLY! 

these "reinforcement zones" are semi safe, new players need a single, large capital GREENZONE where they can't be attacked or attack, not large swaths of semi safe zone that don't work as well.

 they tried that already in bahamas and it didnt work

According to Archaos devs are using reinforcment zones to balance the nations, making some easy and some hard. That's not balanced at all.

precisely why map info and population numbers should be given on joining, or a new player nation added so players can learn the game before being thrusted into Nation V Nation

the new nations were brought in not as an option to have a new flag but to provide hardcore nations .. the whole problem with this game is the nations ,,, people get too tied up with their own national identity and flags

i include myself in this .. im english and served in Royal Navy for 12 years .... no matter what happens i will always choose to fly that flag on my ship

most other sandbox games dont include the history that NA does

have said for many months the map shouldnt be based on real life locations ,,and the neither should the nations

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15 minutes ago, Archaos said:

They have decided that some nations should be easier to play than others and to make them easier they have given them certain advantages, you now want there to be balancing so that everyone is the same. Its not an unfair advantage if you know that from the start. Like many other games there are different difficulty settings, in NA you cannot have that in the PvP fighting so they look at other ways to make certain factions easier. Would you rather they gave the easier nations better aiming, or more powerful cannons or buffed ships. You may not like the design but it is their game and they can decide how they want to implement difficulty. Sure you can complain about it and try and get them to change their minds but my original answer currently still stands that certain nations have extra ports because they are the so called "easy" nations.

So instead of giving a nation more uncappable ports, you propose give them buffed ships and aiming? This is what's wrong with trying to create arbitrary unbalance in a game.

You can have asymmetrical balance, games like Red Orchestra do it well. Infact NA already had this with the historical map locations, different nations have certain logisticals advantage but it wasn't like devs were giving them a clear advantage

The simple fact that devs want to create unbalance in PVP/RVR is concerning, there should be no bias towards nations, everyone should be on a level playing field. No one should be at a dev disadvantage because they chose a nation the devs don't like

You basically want small nations to not exist, and everyone only play the best nations

It's not about being hardcore, its about balance. In your own words the devs want to create imbalance....for what reason?

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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10 hours ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

Concerning safe-zones specifically, reducing their number / size is definitely something to consider.

I like that they are used for protected ship building - it is better to have your enemies flee based on your actual prowess rather than their imagined difficulty in replacing their vessel. A simple change to make the safe-zones less useful would be to make all capitals no longer consume foreign trade goods, pushing treasure fleets to operate in more interesting waters.

Speaking more generally, @z4ys brings up a good point - the best content in this game (sometimes the only content) is PVP fights. So we should scrutinize any mechanics that discourage or outright prevent those fights. Among some players there is a culture of "avoiding pvp" and we need to challenge that and replace it with the culture of "pvp is fun."

Part of the problem may be that we captains as a whole are too loss-averse. My friend crafts ships and has a spreadsheet for pricing - when you look at a tool like that, you can see that ships really don't cost a lot to make. Most players don't know or care how much things cost and probably assume that everything is super expensive.

Some of you guys have discussed "Ship Buy Contracts," a feature that would have lots of positive consequences. One of those might be increased knowledge of prices among ship-buyers as well as greater flexibility of prices.

well said.

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2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

So instead of giving a nation more uncappable ports, you propose give them buffed ships and aiming? This is what's wrong with trying to create arbitrary unbalance in a game.

You can have asymmetrical balance, game like Red Orchestra. Infact NA already had this with the historical map locations.

The simple fact that devs want to create unbalance in PVP/RVR is concerning, there should be no bias towards nations, everyone should be on a level playing field. No one should be at a dev disadvantage because they chose a nation the devs don't like

You basically want small nations to not exist, and everyone only play the big 3 because they're flat out are better.

It's not about being hardcore, its about balance. In your own words the devs want to create imbalance....for what reason?

 

 

 

 

 

 

To give a different playing experience to people. You want everything to be hard core with no safe zones and people thrown in at the deep end once they sail from a port to be seal clubbed. I never said I wanted people to have buffed ships and aiming, I asked if this was an option you wanted instead of easier nations having more safe zones.

The imbalance comes from the difficulty not in the fighting, looking at the extremes, in a new nation with no ports if you lose all your ships it is difficult to rebuild, but in the easy nations you can easily build a new ship without ever leaving the safe zone. This is where the challenge comes into it, in an easy nation you can have your main warehouse in a port that can never be lost while in a hard nation you risk losing access to your warehouse.

As Grundgemunkey says the problem with NA is that it is built on historical nations in real world locations which makes majority of people choose their nation based on their real world affiliations rather than what level of difficulty they wish to play the game. This has always been my fear with giving factions like the pirates special mechanics as they already have a strong draw of players due to the romanticized nature of piracy and if those special mechanics did not make playing a pirate very difficult then the game would have a serious imbalance of pirates. I bet even if they did create special mechanics to make pirates a super hard faction to play people would be on here wanting those difficulties toned down. 

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After all is said and done...

... why do the navies allow the enemies to camp them ? Why don't they attack and pull them into battle ?

This is the only thing that needs an answer and the answer is - attack them. Don't allow them to camp your zones.

 

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14 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

 Why don't they attack and pull them into battle ?

They're scared they're going to lose their stuff. Eco says "you're welcome!"

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