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Iroquois Confederacy

Map of Reinforcement Zones

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I had long wanted to sit down and actually map out the reinforcement zones, and put them up for discussion.  With the pending merger happening, it seemed like a good time to reevaluate the reinforcement zones as well.  As such, I put together a map for discussion.

Now, first was figuring out where all the ports were that had reinforcement zones.  Sailing around Mortimer Town, I noticed that every port that did not have a BR listing on the map (that was not a free port) owned a reinforcement zone.  This seemed like something I needed to double check, but was pleasantly surprised to see that the PvE server confirmed this for me.  The only "owned" maps on that server are ones with reinforcement zones.  This made for a good sanity check.

For figuring out the distance of zones, I sailed from Charleston south, to the zone gap.  It mapped out at 17(.5?)km from the port, making for what I suspect to be a reinforcement zone diameter of 35km.  By using the free camera to observe the geographic features and mark them to a map, I was able to establish a brush size in Paint.net representing these zones.  (That brush size seems to be 92 on the map I was using - Siegfried's Map.)  I used Siegfried's map as I find it aesthetically appealing, and red sticks out on it for ease of use.

With that said, here is the map of the reinforcement zones:

FRQdJ0L.jpg

 

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

As you can see, some regions are particularly well "protected."  My initial proposal is to sharply limit these zones, both shrinking their size and their quantity.  Reducing them to a 20km diameter and reducing them to only three ports per faction instead gives a map that looks like this:

tWDEuwG.jpg

 

Now, due to the nature of some ports, and the fact that these zones are mere circles, some factions do not benefit much from these safety zones.  The US, for example, it does not reach beyond the bay of Charleston, while the Pirates, in this example, would have their entire island still covered.  However, it is easy enough to play with the map and move dots around.

For any proposals, I recommend using Siegfried's map, found here and Paint.net to overlay paint dots over top.  Recall, "standard" reinforcement zone size brush is 92.

Editing to add this post of compiled trade goods:

Here is a list of all the goods that are safely ensconced within protected zones, list compiled with the help of this recent map, thread for same found here.  Adding the same to the initial post.

British:

Assam Tea
Arabian Coffee
Caguairan Log
Coal
Cheshire Cheese
China Tea
Fir Log
Food Supplies
Hemp
Indian Saltpeter
Iron Ore
Lancashire Iron
Lignum Vitae Log
Mahogany Log
Malabar Teak
Oak Log
Scottish Wool
Stone Block
Suffolk Cheese
Sugar
Sussex Oak
Teak Log
Tobacco
Textile Machinery
Yorkshire Pudding

Danes:

Bavarian Grain
Coal
Danish Beer
Danish Pickled Herring
Danish Salted Pork
Danish Yeasts
Hemp
Jutland Amber
Lignum Vitae Log
Norwegian Fox Fur
Russian Sail Duck
Sugar

Dutch:

Batavian Spices
Coal
Dutch Cacao
Dutch Laudanum
Dutch Peanut Butter
Fir Log
Grietje van Dijk
Gold Coast Ivory
Hemp
Iron Ore
Lignum Vitae Log
Oak Log
Stone Block
Sugar
Sumatran Pepper
Swedish Carpenter
Suriname Indigo

French:

Burgundian Wine
Coal
Cognac
Corsican Mint
Diplome de L'ecole D'artillerie
Fine Fabrics
Fir Log
Food Supplies
French Sail Cloth
Hemp
Iron Ore
Languedoc Violins
Lignum Vitae Log
Live Oak Logs
Madagascar Tallow
Normandy Cider
Oak Log
Parisian Furniture
Provence Oak
Sevres Stained Glass
Silver
Stone Block
Sugar
Versailles Terracotta

Pirates:

Coal
Contraband Goods
Fir Log
French Gold Livres
Hemp
Iron Ore
Lignum Vitae Log
Madagascar Jewels
Oak Log
Spanish Gold Coins
Stolen Goods
Stone Block
Sugar

Spanish:

Almeria Saltpeter
Assam Tea
Caguairan Log
Catalonian Olive Oil
Coal
Extra Labor
Fir Log
Food Supplies
Hemp
Iberian Dried Pork
Iron Ore
Lignum Vitae Log
Madeira Wine
Mahogany Log
Merino Wool
Oak Log
Pino Ocote Log
Sabicu Log
Sevilla Muskets
Spanish Almonds
Spanish Dried Fruits
Spanish Walnut Oil
Stone Block
Saltpeter
Sugar
Sulphur
Sussex Oak

Swedes:

Arctic Fox Pelts
Cape Coast Honey
Coal
Hemp
Kurland Oak
Lignum Vitae Log
Russian Vodka
Sugar
Swedish Iron
Swedish Sail Cloth
Ukrainian Grain

United States:

American Cotton
Arabian Coffee
Assam Tea
Black Ironwood
Carolina Tobacco
Cheshire Cheese
China Tea
Coal
Cocoa
Coffee
Cotton
Cuban Tobacco
Fine Leather
Fir Log
Food Supplies
Hemp
Historical Artifact
Indian Saltpeter
Indigo
Iron Ore
Kentucky Bourbon
Lancashire Iron
Lignum Vitae Log
Live Oak Log
Longleaf Pine Log
Malabar Teak
Oak Log
Oregon Beaver Coats
Scottish Wool
Stone Block
Suffolk Cheese
Sugar
Sussex Oak
Textile Machinery
Tobacco
Vermont Maple Sugar
White Oak Logs
Yorkshire Pudding

Edited by Iroquois Confederacy
Added trade goods list

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1st picture is gross and quite literally makes me want to end my life

The 2nd picture is just right. 

5 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

So we can go back to small nations quitting the game, huh?

stahp...just stahp

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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2 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

What series of thoughts leads you from the map as is current, to a set of proposals, to "small nations quitting the game"?

Remembering how it was before the reinforcement zones.  Make them uselessly small and we're back to that.

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Just now, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Remembering how it was before the reinforcement zones.  Make them uselessly small and we're back to that.

How do reinforcement zones and nation size equate? GB is probably the biggest nation and sits entirely in a safezone. So what are you getting at?

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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So, how does, say, all of Louisiana being protected help keep French players from quitting the game?  How does a solid chunk of Mexico being protected help keep Spanish players from quitting the game?

Size of zone is only one aspect.  I think 35km diameter is too big, but I also think there are too many zones.  Do you think the size and quantity are both appropriate?

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

How do reinforcement zones and nation size equate? GB is probably the biggest nation and sits entirely in a safezone. So what are you getting at?

Because larger nations, or groups of nations, have enough players to casually shut down small nations completely if they want to. 

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1 minute ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Because larger nations, or groups of nations, have enough players to casually shut down small nations completely if they want to. 

Many of these zones have nothing to do with a faction getting "shut down."

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Just now, Iroquois Confederacy said:

So, how does, say, all of Louisiana being protected help keep French players from quitting the game?

It encourages people to sail a lot, and be in the game a lot, instead of hide in port or not log in at all.  It reinforces player population and interaction. 

Just take your easy-mode privateering elsewhere. 

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1 minute ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It encourages people to sail a lot, and be in the game a lot, instead of hide in port or not log in at all.  It reinforces player population and interaction. 

Just take your easy-mode privateering elsewhere. 

How?

How do protected zones reinforce player interaction?  How do distant safety zones encourage people to sail a lot?  (Particularly if everything they need is in their own local safety zone.)

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Just now, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

It encourages people to sail a lot, and be in the game a lot, instead of hide in port or not log in at all.  It reinforces player population and interaction. 

Just take your easy-mode privateering elsewhere. 

I could've been really sarcastic here, but I'm gonna put in some effort.

It encourages people to sail a lot -thats not good, we already do that A LOT.

instead of hide in port or not log in at all- as apposed to hiding in safezones? Even if they don't want to, they take up nearly 30% of all ports, no PVP zones.

It reinforces player population and interaction- no it doesn't, quite the opposite.

Just take your easy-mode privateering elsewhere. -neck yourself with your anti-PVP rhetoric

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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4 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

How?

How do protected zones reinforce player interaction?

Because people quit the game when their main ports get camped to death.  When people can freely travel between a few ports they will be in the game more, and be able to participate in their clan and nation activities.  People can't participate if they don't bother to log in to begin with because they don't feel like they can go anywhere. 

I quit playing in any meaningful sense for 3-4 weeks before the reinforcement zones were created.  We were dead except for the gank and counter-gank players.  When the zones and uncapturable ports were introduced I started playing again because I could leave port again. 

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Instead of trying to change reinforcement zones so you can easily chase players who aren't actually interested in your attentions, why not make a proposal to fix the real problem with this game: the lack of any reason to seek out PvP or any strong incentive to travel to other parts of the map?  There's really no incentive or reward for most players to go out and look for PvP, which for most of us just means getting sunk in pretty short order.

 

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16 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Because people quit the game when their main ports get camped to death.  When people can freely travel between a few ports they will be in the game more, and be able to participate in their clan and nation activities.  People can't participate if they don't bother to log in to begin with because they don't feel like they can go anywhere. 

I quit playing in any meaningful sense for 3-4 weeks before the reinforcement zones were created.  We were dead except for the gank and counter-gank players.  When the zones and uncapturable ports were introduced I started playing again because I could leave port again. 

To the first point:  They can participate in their clan and nation activities, but nobody else can participate with them.  PvP on an OW game should not always be consensual.

Now, with that in mind - I don't mean to come off as condescending.  Please don't read my next question that way.  Nothing you have said made any mention of ever actually participating in PvP.  Do you even desire to participate in PvP?  What does that look like to you?

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1 minute ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

 Do you even desire to participate in PvP?  What does that look like to you?

I like to roll with a group, hoping to find meaningful action against another similarly sized groups.  I'm hoping there will eventually be some incentive to sail to other parts of the map in battle groups, instead of randomly sailing around jumping AI out of boredom.

While I am not against a privateer mode of play, that shouldn't be taking place right outside major ports.  We need some kind of trade system that makes an incentive to leave your county in something other than a disposable t-brig.  I'm guessing trading is pretty dead with the easy money in PVE battles and proliferation of mineable resources on the map. 

 

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Ever and ever and ever again ... the same people, the same arguments, the same demands ...

I visited La Mona this evening. Outside the harbor 2 Frigates had a 1 vs 1, a Santissima seems waiting for her fight ... It seems to me, that there is all the PVP some of you cant find in the OW. So why not fighting at La Mona instead of begging to remove savezones? There is only one explanation, you dont want to fight "good fights", you want ganks ... that's the simple truth!

I have nothing against ganks, but please, please don't whine alle the time u cant find pvp! 

Or an other suggestion: come  to prussian shores! There are no savezones !  You will get your fight! Of course we will do our best, to make sure we win, so don't expect a "good fight" ...

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Meaningful action with similarly sized groups... where?  Why would there possibly be a massive task force in the middle of nowhere?  (Because those are the only regions that are not heavily protected.)  Or, I suppose you could go to one of the factions that has no protection zone, but that would be a bit hypocritical of you.

Why shouldn't privateer mode of play happen right outside major ports?  It brings content to those players.  Why, I myself have been chased by those very task forces that you want to find, because I hunted their waters.  Those task forces don't just form to lumber around and do nothing with.  For you to enjoy the PvP you want, you have to have an impetus for those groups to form up in the first place.  Privateering is that impetus.

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5 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

 

Why shouldn't privateer mode of play happen right outside major ports?  It brings content to those players. 

Because if privateers are hunting outside the major ports people won't want to leave port to even sail a short distances moving simple resources, which means they'll also stop logging in.  That isn't "content". 

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13 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

 

Why shouldn't privateer mode of play happen right outside major ports?  It brings content to those players.  Why, I myself have been chased by those very task forces that you want to find, because I hunted their waters.  Those task forces don't just form to lumber around and do nothing with.  For you to enjoy the PvP you want, you have to have an impetus for those groups to form up in the first place.  Privateering is that impetus.

I'm talking about going out in a group of warships to look for similarly sized groups of warships.  Chasing a zoomy privateer in a warship is generally neither productive nor fun - it's not something people are going to waste their time doing. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

I'm talking about going out in a group of warships to look for similarly sized groups of warships.  Chasing a zoomy privateer in a warship is generally neither productive nor fun - it's not something people are going to waste their time doing. 

Phase 1:  Privateers hunt traders by ports.
Phase 2:  Task force comes out to chase off Privateers.
Phase 3:  Potential for an opposing task force to come out to counter the first.

You're asking for Phase 3, while trying to skip over 1 and 2.  Further, I'm not advocating for the removal of all safe zones.  I'm advocating for their reduction in quantity, and, to a lesser extent, their size.  Why does Louisianna need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why does Mexico need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why does North Carolina need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why does Georgia need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why does Belize, of all places, need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why do the Cays need to be a reinforcement zone?  Why does Saint Lucia need to be a reinforcement zone?

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16 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

I'm talking about going out in a group of warships to look for similarly sized groups of warships.  Chasing a zoomy privateer in a warship is generally neither productive nor fun - it's not something people are going to waste their time doing. 

 

If you were going to chase him with lineships, of course thats not productive and no fun for any side, but instead you could bring a reasonable amount of ships and an appropriate size and have a nice battle with him / them.

I used to be a brit for well over a year; when we had visitors at KPR, the first reaction was to aquire as many lineships as possible, just because "they were invading our waters" - Completely forgetting that they could have some great fun with them in a REAL battle.

One case I remember, swedes came to visid said place, kpr, in 5th rates - same procedure, Bucentaures etc. were lining up quickly - Luckily I could tell them to not waste time on chasing, but to bring out something reasonable, frigates to fight them - At some point where our force was matching their side; I made the move to charge (and they luckily followed), cause otherwise they'd have waited til the ships filled the complete kpr harbor.

Edited by Liq

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I was told the key element of this game NA is PvP. Admin said Player are content. So why is this game restricting me in getting access to content? Why there are so many mechanics in place that deny content?

Maybe admin is wrong and they should step away from player = content.

Dont know why we have 2 games that both claim player = content. One of them is fake.

Edited by z4ys

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1 minute ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

Phase 1:  Privateers hunt traders by ports.
Phase 2:  Task force comes out to chase off Privateers.

Nobody does this.   It is not productive.  Nobody sits around in port waiting to be called out to chase distant sails on the horizon they can't catch anyway.  It is a waste of time. 

 

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Just now, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Nobody does this.   It is not productive.  Nobody sits around in port waiting to be called out to chase distant sails on the horizon they can't catch anyway.  It is a waste of time. 

 

thats a joke i recently saw a bunch of people doing it :D

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