WASSA

[Son of a gun]

2 hours ago, Valentine Karrde said:

Liquicity soloed one in a surprise tonight. And I soloed one in a trincomalee yesterday.... perhaps you need to practice some mate  Most good pvpers won't touch her, only reason I claimed one was I didn't have a shipyard and lost my bellona to poor game stability.  It's a much better deal to buy the mods with pvp marks. 

Haha, well said. KoC (WO) will only fight when they have greater odds(2v1 or his war ship vs a trader ship.)

PS, Wasa is over-powered for the 4th rate ship category, should be in 3rd rate along side of the Bellona.

[King of Crowns]

1 hour ago, Son of a gun said:

Haha, well said. KoC (WO) will only fight when they have greater odds(2v1 or his war ship vs a trader ship.)
 

You right..........

[Verlich]

8 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

Wasa should really just lose 4 of her broadside guns and have them reduced to 24lbs then she would be fine. There is really no reason to have her as a 64 or have her loading 32lbs, I can't find any evidence for the 64 guns and the 32lb guns are as far as I can make out because they were outfitted onto one of her sister ships for a period, although her sistership was upscaled slightly so is a fair bit larger than wasa herself.

Realistically the Wasa in game seems to model a slightly optimistic sailing characteristic while maintaining the heavy hitting of a sluggish bigger sister, its not good for historical accuracy or gameplay. 64s pretty much all had poor sailing ratios too, so they shouldn't outperform the 74s

Please nerf her.

If the Nerf destroy's historical accuracy then it would destroy the game reason of existence, as long as the ship is historically accurate I don't much care. The ship is suppose to carry 6 howitzers too, which at the time period had early Carcass shot coming into development, so it could be worse. Personally I'd like the howitzers, the giggles of it would be nice plus they would make the ship a little slower and add another siege ship for PBs.

[Christendom]

4 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

............... its impossible to get one to 15.5 now. and its 32lbers. not 36s

14.7 is fine enough

[Landsman]

10 hours ago, King of Crowns said:

what world would you ever think that ship was balanced

Still hearing the people claiming it wasn't OP or how constitution or other ships were better...  still gives me this subtle chuckle thinking about it.

[Landsman]

8 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

Changing BR only wont do anything.

Exactly, it doesn't really matter outside of PBs...

[Landsman]

4 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

However, it takes merchants out of the water.

You mean the merchants building ships in the safe zone with almost all resources available to them at zero risk? Yeah, that really hurts the eco and all.... #literallyunplayable

[Malachi]

9 hours ago, SteelSandwich said:

out of curiosity, what armament was carried when the reports where written?

If, and im asking since i dont know, those speeds where recorded with 24/18, would it not be the perfect balance to reduce her manouverabilities/sailing characteristics when someone opting for a heavier loadout (32/24)?

Faster and lighter armament, slower and heavier armament. Sounds exactly right for 4th configuration in my ears atleast..

The speeds I quoted are from a sailing trial of the Gustaf Adolph and the Sofia Magdalena, a 74-gun ship, held in 1787. As far as I know, she got her 24-/36-pounders right after launch in 1782.

But I still think 18s/24s would put her class in a much more reasonable position in-game.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Malachi

[Navalus Magnus]

13 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Pretty much this

I wouldn't say that i hate the fact that the Wasa is in the game, but i agree, that this ship still needs some nerfing!

[Yngvarr]

4 hours ago, Verlich said:

If the Nerf destroy's historical accuracy then it would destroy the game reason of existence, as long as the ship is historically accurate I don't much care. The ship is suppose to carry 6 howitzers too, which at the time period had early Carcass shot coming into development, so it could be worse. Personally I'd like the howitzers, the giggles of it would be nice plus they would make the ship a little slower and add another siege ship for PBs.

well, then the dev's should rename the ship to Chronprins Gustav Adolph

[Navalus Magnus]

13 hours ago, Malachi said:

But she sailed 10 3/4 knots close hauled

But "close hauled", for a full rigged ship, means "not closer to the wind than 65°", right!?

So more realistic for maintaining such a speed would be 80°+ to the wind.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Navalus Magnus

[Navalus Magnus]

9 hours ago, Valentine Karrde said:

I think they consider it taking command of an already constructed vessel. No one owned warships IRL, captains were appointed command of one. Hence the note 

If we go with this kind of logic you'd need to give up the crafting of every war ship - at least 5th rate and above!

... and buying notes wouldn't suffice either to match the reallity of promoting captians and giving them commands.

 

So, in my opinion every ship should need to be crafted (no notes)!

Exceptions might be rewards you could earn from epic events or stuff like that.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Navalus Magnus

[Malachi]

Quote

 

But "close hauled", for a full rigged ship, means "not closer to the wind than 65°", right!?

So more realistic for maintaining such a speed would be 80°+ to the wind.

 

 

Square riggers could manage up to 7 points to the wind (11, 25°  / point), that would be around 78°.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Malachi

[Valentine Karrde]

2 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

If we go with this kind of logic you'd need to give up the crafting of every war ship - at least 5th rate and above!

... and buying notes wouldn't suffice either to match the reallity of promoting captians and giving them commands.

 

So, in my opinion every ship should need to be crafted (no notes)!

Exceptions might be rewards you could earn from epic events or stuff like that.

I actually think that crafting should be removed from the game. With the massive safe zones, most crafters remain inside them and trade interdiction has been pretty much eliminated. There are no more trade routes because the majority of resources are found inside the safe zones. The majority of crafters have no clue what a good ship is. I had a guy try to argue with me that oak was a better wood for framing than teak or white oak. Mainly because he had that and didn't want to leave to safe zone to get a better wood. Most pvp players build their own ships anyhow, but I'd be more than happy to see a complete note system and crafting removed or changed. It's not like the economy in this game has ever been close to working correctly anyhow. 

[Navalus Magnus]

1 hour ago, Valentine Karrde said:

I actually think that crafting should be removed from the game. With the massive safe zones, most crafters remain inside them and trade interdiction has been pretty much eliminated. There are no more trade routes because the majority of resources are found inside the safe zones. The majority of crafters have no clue what a good ship is. I had a guy try to argue with me that oak was a better wood for framing than teak or white oak. Mainly because he had that and didn't want to leave to safe zone to get a better wood. Most pvp players build their own ships anyhow, but I'd be more than happy to see a complete note system and crafting removed or changed. It's not like the economy in this game has ever been close to working correctly anyhow. 

The economy (crafting and trading) is broken, yes, but partially because of these notes!

Of course that's not all - the system itself needs to be reworked thoroughly!

Crafting and trading would needs become more important than now.

 

Imo that could be achieved by:

- placing the valuable woods and rare ressources like cartagena tar (far) outside of every safezone

- getting rid of the shipnotes

- getting rid of the permanent modules

- letting crafters gain knowledge how to craft some features of these (than gone) modules into ships - still needed would be the rare ressources (e.g. cartagena tar to craft ships with thickness boosts)

- making trading more fun and valuable too (more rewards, maybe trading marks, trading missions with attacking ai / storms to get through / escort fleets, ...)

- getting the possibility of setting up ship craft contracts on a regional or even global level

- ... (list is most possibly not complete)

[Valentine Karrde]

People need an option to bypass crafters if necessary. These ideas might work in a fully populated mmo, but naval action has never and will never achieve that. There has to be a way to get a ship fast, I know I for one am not going to wait for some crafter to get off his lazy bum to build me a ship. I want it now, not in three hours or tomorrow. The notes achieve this, they need to cost a little more but they do fill the gap.

i think the notes need to be expanded more, so all 4 classes of ship are available and they rotate to a different ship once a month.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Navalus Magnus]

2 hours ago, Valentine Karrde said:

i think the notes need to be expanded more

Than crafting and trading wouldn‘t make any sense at all!

If devs would choose to go your path they could just as well make NA a game of fights and conquest only!

Maybe NA would become more popular with such a step taken!?

Maybe not!

But they would surely lose every player who likes trading and crafting.

[Valentine Karrde]

1 hour ago, Navalus Magnus said:

Than crafting and trading wouldn‘t make any sense at all!

If devs would choose to go your path they could just as well make NA a game of fights and conquest only!

Maybe NA would become more popular with such a step taken!?

Maybe not!

But they would surely lose every player who likes trading and crafting.

Make the mark ones more costly than player built. And there aren't that many that enjoy the crafting over combat fyi. If there were, ships on the market wouldn't be over priced and you could easily get what you want immediately by simply asking. That is not and never has been the case in this game. Very few enjoy the tedium of crafting. It's plain boring. Only reason I do it is I want a ship immediately not next week. And 99 percent of crafters wouldn't know a pvp build from a hole in the head. Most can't even make a pve ship! I'm not playing this game to teach people the basics of crafting every time I want a ship. 

If more people embraced reality and less people espoused fantasy, we'd have a much better game. 

Even the developers have started to face reality and are beginning to understand their product only appeals to a small customer base. I am willing to bet the pve server goes next and then they will start to make the game gear toward s smaller population.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Verlich]

4 hours ago, Navalus Magnus said:

The economy (crafting and trading) is broken, yes, but partially because of these notes!

Of course that's not all - the system itself needs to be reworked thoroughly!

Crafting and trading would needs become more important than now.

 

Imo that could be achieved by:

- placing the valuable woods and rare ressources like cartagena tar (far) outside of every safezone

- getting rid of the shipnotes

- getting rid of the permanent modules

- letting crafters gain knowledge how to craft some features of these (than gone) modules into ships - still needed would be the rare ressources (e.g. cartagena tar to craft ships with thickness boosts)

- making trading more fun and valuable too (more rewards, maybe trading marks, trading missions with attacking ai / storms to get through / escort fleets, ...)

- getting the possibility of setting up ship craft contracts on a regional or even global level

- ... (list is most possibly not complete)

The issue is the player driven economy, I like the crafting system because it's 50 percent notes 50 percent learned over time just from crafting or breaking down ships. If people want they can build perm upgrades now, if people think Oak is wonderful because they are to scared to experiment out side of that then let them be the deciders of that. You see the devs need to let the players live in the world and make their own choices. If we force people to leave places they find comfortable then the game falls apart. All the major buildings and best materials are already out side the bubbles. No point in just killing the current system because a few people are afraid to GoonSwarm a safe zone with 30 ships and wreck trade and sink all their resources. To me it sounds like both parties are scared to risk anything, I still don't understand why you care if some players use poor ship designs just be happy their easier to kill. 

[Valentine Karrde]

15 minutes ago, Verlich said:

The issue is the player driven economy, I like the crafting system because it's 50 percent notes 50 percent learned over time just from crafting or breaking down ships. If people want they can build perm upgrades now, if people think Oak is wonderful because they are to scared to experiment out side of that then let them be the deciders of that. You see the devs need to let the players live in the world and make their own choices. If we force people to leave places they find comfortable then the game falls apart. All the major buildings and best materials are already out side the bubbles. No point in just killing the current system because a few people are afraid to GoonSwarm a safe zone with 30 ships and wreck trade and sink all their resources. To me it sounds like both parties are scared to risk anything, I still don't understand why you care if some players use poor ship designs just be happy their easier to kill. 

It's not the fact some people use crap builds, it's the fact that you have to teach shipbuilding 101 if you can even find a ship builder. And then usually you need to wait hours to days for them to gather what you need or provide it yourself. No, I have very little use for the few crafters who remain in this game. 

[Verlich]

23 minutes ago, Valentine Karrde said:

It's not the fact some people use crap builds, it's the fact that you have to teach shipbuilding 101 if you can even find a ship builder. And then usually you need to wait hours to days for them to gather what you need or provide it yourself. No, I have very little use for the few crafters who remain in this game. 

1. offer to bring them supplies it's only kind, if your incapable of offering kindness you've probably earned yourself a reputation.

2. Guide them to the wiki

[maturin]

11 hours ago, Malachi said:

The speeds I quoted are from a sailing trial of the Gustaf Adolph and the Sofia Magdalena, a 74-gun ship, held in 1787. As far as I know, she got her 24-/36-pounders right after launch in 1782.

But I still think 18s/24s would put her class in a much more reasonable position in-game.

Was she like the Bellona-class frigates at all, where the 18-pdrs were designed for cruising and the 24s for battleline emergencies?

I would rather see the armament cut down than the performance. Maybe 24/24 would be a nice compromise. The identical load times would popular with PvP-ers, and represent less of a drastic step down.

In the end, some of these borderline cases might be better handled with a permanent hidden module that decreases damage, to simulate lighter national calibers.

[Valentine Karrde]

12 minutes ago, maturin said:

Was she like the Bellona-class frigates at all, where the 18-pdrs were designed for cruising and the 24s for battleline emergencies?

I would rather see the armament cut down than the performance. Maybe 24/24 would be a nice compromise. The identical load times would popular with PvP-ers, and represent less of a drastic step down.

In the end, some of these borderline cases might be better handled with a permanent hidden module that decreases damage, to simulate lighter national calibers.

I'd say 24s and 18s if she's gonna keep the performance. Or drop her a full knot and give her double 24s

Edited December 15, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Valentine Karrde]

17 minutes ago, Verlich said:

1. offer to bring them supplies it's only kind, if your incapable of offering kindness you've probably earned yourself a reputation.

2. Guide them to the wiki

Why should the customer have to supply the ship builder? You take on that you better be well supplied or I won't use you ever again. Nothing infuriates me more than to have someone take my order then not be able o deliver immediately or ask me to provide parts. If I have to provide parts, I'll make it myself. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Valentine Karrde

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Valentine Karrde said:

I'd say 24s and 18s if she's gonna keep the performance. Or drop her a full knot and I've her double 24s

She HAS to be 24/18 or make her have less armor than the inger which already serves as the glass cannon 4th rate. No ship should come close to similar broadside weight without suffering heavily from it