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greybuscat

King-of-the-Hill Circles Are Dumb

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I'm just going to say it. Circles are dumb, they allow people to troll everyone (including their own teammates) by ending the match in less than five minutes if you get the maps with only one, and to make matters worse, they offer no meaningful rewards because of how XP and silver are allocated. It just ends the match and kicks you back to the lobby, barely covering the ship's maintenance fee if you are particularly aggressive.

Even when it "works as designed," endlessly circling each other to stay in the zone is not engaging gameplay, especially when 10-15% of some capture zones are shoals. It forces good players to fight like the AI, and makes new players into bad players.

There's a lot of things that could be better about Legends, but this is by far the biggest flaw. When you're lucky to see 30 people in-game, and have to wait 5 minutes between matches, this can be devastating to the player's experience. It works okay when everyone is willing to avoid the zones because they understand how detrimental they are to having fun, but we shouldn't need unenforceable "house rules" to make the game playable.

The shrinking circle mechanic from Sea Trials was just fine and could easily be adjusted to speed up matches, so I'm not sure why it was tossed out in favor of this nonsense. I also can't believe that no one in the first closed alpha noticed this problem. Maybe there was a better class of player or something.

Off-topic but still important: Mixed battles with 6th-1st rates are a blast. Bring back "small battles" for 6th and 7th rates only, and "large battles" that are a free-for-all, and maybe add a third battle type for 5th rates and higher only. Also, why is there no dueling? 1v1 equally matched fights are also amazing.

I can understand wanting to sell the arena mode as a separate game, and it's great that it gives us something to do during server downtime, but can you at least make it as good as what we had before?

Edited by greybuscat

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Its a doble edge sword. Circles remove the desire to kite. 

3 circle maps are under review.  Sometimes they are annoying (for those who don't play for objectives) but maybe CS is annoying as well for some - you wanted to shoot but they planted the bomb.

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Its a doble edge sword. Circles remove the desire to kite. 

3 circle maps are under review.  Sometimes they are annoying (for those who don't play for objectives) but maybe CS is annoying as well for some - you wanted to shoot but they planted the bomb.

I really don't think Counter-Strike is a fair comparison to a game like Naval Action which, even in Legends, is a slower, more methodical game. Can you end a battle in, say, World of Warships within five minutes, just by capping zones? At the very least, it should take considerably longer to build up 1,000 points.

And barring that, though I realize that making a "win" give a meaningful reward would actually incentivize the thing very I'm complaining about, at least that would justify victory via bombing and make the experience less absurd. It's not just that I "want to shoot," it's that not shooting and killing also means zero progression. If I'm not having fun or progressing (not just getting new ships. I also mean getting mods and leveling officers for existing ships), I'm not going to be playing very long. I don't think I am unique in this, either.

And none of this would be a problem to me, at all, if we had the option for the traditional Team Deathmatch.

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I find another problem related to circles and BOTs, bots always go the shorter way to face the enemy and don't bother about circles. capturing these zones is too quick in my opinion.

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46 minutes ago, admin said:

Its a doble edge sword. Circles remove the desire to kite. 

3 circle maps are under review.  Sometimes they are annoying (for those who don't play for objectives) but maybe CS is annoying as well for some - you wanted to shoot but they planted the bomb.

In CS you have at least the time to go from A to B while bomb is counting down. Try that in NAL ;-)

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1 hour ago, greybuscat said:

There's a lot of things that could be better about Legends, but this is by far the biggest flaw. When you're lucky to see 30 people in-game, and have to wait 5 minutes between matches, this can be devastating to the player's experience. It works okay when everyone is willing to avoid the zones because they understand how detrimental they are to having fun, but we shouldn't need unenforceable "house rules" to make the game playable.

 

This is a closed test. Keep that in mind when commenting, house rules and bots is what you either agree to, or skip this part of the game.

Limiting the amount of tantrum you go into is also a good idea, beta test or not. Tags are used to make it easier for people to find topics, not for you to pout and throw a fit.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Its a doble edge sword. Circles remove the desire to kite. 

3 circle maps are under review.  Sometimes they are annoying (for those who don't play for objectives) but maybe CS is annoying as well for some - you wanted to shoot but they planted the bomb.

3 circles Have got to go....  And I have no problem waiting as they will be gone very soon. To easy to grief and waste time.

The oob circle needs to be a fake wall that they slam into, that will stop them cold, then the kiting will go away or make the circle close like it use to or both lol. (Wishful Thinking).

@admin did you fix the bug were you could stay oob for ever.  As I now think others may know about it.

 

People leaving as match Starts,  We should get a msg Saying So and So left match.  Not knowing if a person is real or not Was a Problem 3 months ago. We now have the * that fixed it...... But, You just made it a problem again. maybe even worse.

  1. Do you get Still get xp for match at the end if you leave.
  2. Not tested- If I leave in my 5 slot indy and it becomes an AI.  Are all my 42 pound carros lasers now that can hit you in rudder at 500m and take out 50% of your crew in 1st 15 mins.  Mega Grief

With that Said, I can Live with 2 Circles, Hell I can live with 20 if you have to get one at a time then move on to the next one. (Again Wishful Thinking)

Edited by JobaSet

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I cant understand why they dont use all the greatness from the sea trials...

Once again I show the points so many dont seem to know:

What Sea Trials made great:

1. It WAS deathmatch. You had to work together and organize your lines to win.

2. The map WAS huge. It was needed to manoveur. And so the different phases of the gameplay matters: Organize your line, shot from far and search for a weak spot, then go in and the chaos breaks out :)

3. To the end of matchtime the map began to get smaller. That was a good mechanic to bring the ships together! And to not worry anymore about the heavy wouded ships that cant make it anymore.

4. There where NO circles. I repeat: NO artifical circles! They totaly destroy the way a fleet of that time should fight. And they totaly destroy all the great tactics.

5. No shallow. I think they are ok, but dont use them to make the small ships matter. Why? Because the small ships always do! In even battles they fit a different role and they have to be played totaly differently but they do matter a lot and can be used clever together with the big ships.

6. Variety on fleet setup. Only balance with cannons. Allow 2 Big ships vs 14 cutters or something like that. Dont even up the ship count.

7. Calm weather, light storms, storms. Battles in the morning, high noon and evening.

8. No Ai...

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16 minutes ago, karacho said:

I cant understand why they dont use all the greatness from the sea trials...

Once again I show the points so many dont seem to know:

 

Your PoV is not gospel. This is something you don't seem to know. I know I don't get my panties in a bunch because "it's not like ye olde times!". Or because there are circles, I repeat, there are circles, I repeat twice there are there are circles. Drum roll.

 

These are opinions and points, not solutions to be taken as granted.

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33 minutes ago, karacho said:

And they totaly destroy all the great tactics.

What I remember best from Sea Trials were all the autoskippers just forming a line downwind. There may be issues, but current situation is better than what we had, I think.

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Just make the AI contest the circle, right not its fair when teams bee line for the circle while having more players on their team vs AI bots.

Edited by ironhammer500

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I think the circles are a decent mechanic but they're only really being used to end battles at the moment and not as a 'win'. 

Winning via points should give an XP amount to each player on the winning side (scaling on the number of enemy ships still alive?/total BR alive?) This would add more tactical options as well and make the circle a centre of combat rather than just a place most people ignore. A speed trim Reno might become an actually useful ship to gain xp rather than just something people have to grind through to use the chunkier frigates.

Also the matchmaker could open up the tiers a bit more as capping would be as useful objective rather than just pen-ing and killing ships.

 

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