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Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

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Costs of PVP rewards:
Wasa Note  - 30 PM
Surprise Note -15 PM
PFrigate Note - 15 PM
L'Hermion Note - 15 PM
LGV Refit Note - 25 PM
Constitution Note - 25PM
Bellona Note - 30 PM
Navy Structure Refit - 10 PM
Navy Orlop Refit - 10 PM
Navy Mast Treatment Note - 10 PM
Navy Mast Band Note - 10 PM
Navy Hull Refit - 10 PM
Navy Gun Tackles - 10 PM

Marks and blueprint :
Victory Marks - 50 PM

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Now now... Whats the logic of bringing Wasa back down to 30 PvP marks, without changing anything about its performance.

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21 hours ago, Borch said:

 

Looks like you're giving up finnaly. It seems that there wont be more content added and youre focusing on things you have now. 

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

  • Like 22

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

i want that ship, NOW.

 

AWESOME work.

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

Why have you made the wasa cheaper again? Can you genuinely not see that it is game breaking? You need to either address it's overpowered nature or remove it altogether. 

Is this new ship here going to be the wasa of the 1st rates or are you actually going to have to earn this one? Or is it going to be yet another overpowered ship that presents zero risk or loss to the captain who sails it?

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Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

Can we expect front chasers on St Pavel and Bucentaure too? Or will this ship's new front chasers be balanced out by something else? 

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

You forgot about the Ingermanland as it still needs a Victory Mark for the Blueprint unless you made it into a 1st rate instead :)

But its a nice looking ship and most of us like more content. Are there any plans of making a new roadmap for 2018 so that we can see what is in the pipeline, and ofc moan about it ?

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Update has been deployed today - 26th December

  • Removed victory mark requirements in blueprint and permit acquisitions for all ships except for first rates
  • Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)
  • Fixed an important bug with bot reload getting stuck from time to time
  • Increased cool down and time to recover crew on the surgeon - surgeon was working too fast and too often during battles and it had to be nerfed.

Final changes for ship physics including leeway and adaptation of all light ships is being prepared. 
New year gifts will be distributed with the forthcoming patch (part 3 of sailing model improvements)

@admin, wait,  so you actually care about our input so long as they're rational and well argued?
And here I thought I was "pissing in the wind". Damn, @admin, you're playing with our frail frail hearts.

On a more serious note, are there any plans to balance the wasa's performance? or is its price enough of a balancing factor?

 

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Well, I do need more and more time reading patch notes too keep up, and less time to play. I don't think this patch will change anything. Those at top will still be at top and those a buttom will be where they always has been.

I am in a small nation. The Danish. Yep we cant fight the big ones(and win). But do think partly it is Oure one fault. Just need to get better on working together. And make content for the players. But to make the big ships hard to come by, well that dosen't help. I think the biggest problem for small nation is:

1. Because of the few players in the nation, they cant fight many pb a day, and they *can't find players for the pb with high br. 

2. Because the small nations are affraid of getting one port by the big ones, they just stay away from RvR.(And actually I do think the big RvR, have showen great restraint. They do know in the long run, they dont win anything by killing of a nation.(we just loose the players, ore end up with 2-3 nations)

But this is a war game and the best should be the best. But not because the devs help them stay at the top, witch they imo do now, with the conquest lader. I do think they should make it easier for the smal nations and harder for the top nations, but not they way the do it now. Not with vm marks ore limit the ships avaiable. Her is my surgestion.

1: The numbers of pb's, that you cant get a day, is depending on how many ports you hold. The more ports the more fights you may get. 10-1, dont know the number. But her I only think defensive pb against you. 

2.: A number of the of the first ports a nation get, will have a small Br.(lets say the first five, ore they can choose what br they want.), why that?Simply enough, as it is now you may have port with high br in your area(This can be a problem for a small), And for a nation to function proberly, you cant have the ports spread all over the map.

3: All citys with rear item should have a high BR. I know it dosen't help the smal once. But the fight for the best ports should be fierce. So if a small nation choose one of those citys as there first one. Well then they just have to man up and fight.

4: The center of the map, should have a high br on its ports. Maby from 4800(ore maby even higher start point) and up. You want to be there, well get your big boys pants on.

5. Need to get a more balanced br on ships and upgrades.

This could be one way, that will help the small nations, but still let the top dogs be the best. On the other hand we can just make this a war game. You survive ore you dont. Maby it is because of the limits ppl have left the game. 

Edited by staun
*

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41 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is what happened Captains
Player makes up a false assumption, gets irritated with his false assumption, start spreading it as being true, turning himself into a hater (with no actual reasons). This happens a lot on the internetz. We learnt to ignore this.  

You are incorrect and should avoid making statements that have no factual proof. 
We can easily disprove it by just showing our work. We of course understand that maybe you want something else. But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Like this Danish beauty

Q2KpYkd.jpg

Look, I'm far away from being a hater without reason. Like I said in my post you quoted, "thank you" for trying. Now, I also have pointed out plenty of things that will make your patch not work. The only thjing you are interested here though is spreading false statements. How making a new ship is prooving anything? Ships are great, ships are needed, but ships without content are not a content for long.

Again, with the recent changes you promote empty port taking from the strongest. You want people in whole nation to work for the opportunity to sail the best ships ( 1 clan alone wont do). Its actually easier to move your clan to strongest nation than to fight in current example Prussia or Commonwealth. In order to do that I would have to play with people I dont like (for example that sorry a** dude who liked to tell his clanmates to shut the f**k up). How do you want that to be plesant experience after whole working day?

On top of that this gamepley is just rinse and repeat. Take some territory, spread too much, become to weak to protect all ports so smaller nations can grab some land and advance on the leaderboard. How long can people whitstand that?

Where in all of this is place for casual,solo players? Traders, crafters and casual PvP'ers who would like to hunt for smaller targets instead fighting aroud colored dots? Are you going to make 1 dimensional game for only handfull of players? I assure you that it wont work if you wont have a proper playerbase.

Finnaly please proof me wrong with my last statement by showing us new content (but not ships), where I can use your beautifull new Christian as that what we have in game is not enough for this game to survive in the long term.

Again, I'm not hater. I do reality checks from time to time though. So should you.

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Okay, you want to improve RvR and PvP interaction. Thats fine, thats great. You can't do that however by blocking out content. First rates were already extremely expensive ships, especially when fitted with NECESSARY port battle upgrades. Making them extremely hard to get won't improve RvR, it will significantly reduce its frequency. The Top three nations will dominate, and the rest will barely be able to defend themselves against attack. 

This last patch was a step in the right direction, at least the Vic marks are a more reasonable price now. However thats not the main problem, the main problem is how Vic marks are distributed and awarded. This system needs fixing or RvR is going to be dead. 

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8 minutes ago, Borch said:

Look, I'm far away from being a hater without reason. Like I said in my post you quoted, "thank you" for trying. Now, I also have pointed out plenty of things that will make your patch not work. The only thjing you are interested here though is spreading false statements. How making a new ship is prooving anything? Ships are great, ships are needed, but ships without content are not a content for long.

Again, with the recent changes you promote empty port taking from the strongest. You want people in whole nation to work for the opportunity to sail the best ships ( 1 clan alone wont do). Its actually easier to move your clan to strongest nation than to fight in current example Prussia or Commonwealth. In order to do that I would have to play with people I dont like (for example that sorry a** dude who liked to tell his clanmates to shut the f**k up). How do you want that to be plesant experience after whole working day?

On top of that this gamepley is just rinse and repeat. Take some territory, spread too much, become to weak to protect all ports so smaller nations can grab some land and advance on the leaderboard. How long can people whitstand that?

Where in all of this is place for casual,solo players? Traders, crafters and casual PvP'ers who would like to hunt for smaller targets instead fighting aroud colored dots? Are you going to make 1 dimensional game for only handfull of players? I assure you that it wont work if you wont have a proper playerbase.

Finnaly please proof me wrong with my last statement by showing us new content (but not ships), where I can use your beautifull new Christian as that what we have in game is not enough for this game to survive in the long term.

Again, I'm not hater. I do reality checks from time to time though. So should you.

Wouldn't the nature of an sandbox game like this be "create your own fun" with what you've got? I think the Devs is trying to encourage the changes of port ownerships, but given the 500+ population we might not see enough variety. I am more in favour of not choking out certain subgroup of the population like the casual players, you can't expect everyone to always want to rush out and do PvP all the time, but if they're just doing PvE only, then their experience on a PvP server would be hampered by that. And the economy would not be so effected by a single small group of players. But that requires bigger population, and so the Devs focused on balancing ships, and creating new ships. @admin have you thought of increasing the frequency of sunken fleet appearing? Like the supply drop in the division? And perhaps, starts off with a giant circle that shows where the fleets will be, and every time interval ( let's say 30mins) the circle shrinks and at the last interval, only the map square where the fleets will appear is highlighted. This would give players more activities and PvP. The only issue is we might see large groups chasing the lone players off. Yet, if multiple of this shows up, says one up between Bermuda and Charleston, another between Cartagena and Kingston and a 3rd elsewhere, a lone player might find himself/herself lucky in finding one without large enemy fleets or being closer than the enemy fleets? 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

We can easily disprove it by just showing our work.

You should do this more.

Show the players that you are actually working on the game, instead of leaving us to our theories about where this game is going, or if this game even has a future.

 

2 more tips...

  • A little more professionalism towards your clients might go a long way. (Since we buy your product, we are clients)
  • Remember, games need players to work, and we as players have more than only this game to choose from.
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2 hours ago, admin said:

Reduced prices for PvP content in pvp marks because previously the catered to top pvp players but not the average players (it should be better now)

I noticed that the PvP mark skill books (the various combat reports, and the Navy Loodsman Reports) are still 150 & 300 PvP marks, respectively.  I'm uncertain if this is deliberate or not.

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3 hours ago, DustyA said:

Costs of PVP rewards:
Wasa Note  - 30 PM
Surprise Note -15 PM
PFrigate Note - 15 PM
L'Hermion Note - 15 PM
LGV Refit Note - 25 PM
Constitution Note - 25PM
Bellona Note - 30 PM
Navy Structure Refit - 10 PM
Navy Orlop Refit - 10 PM
Navy Mast Treatment Note - 10 PM
Navy Mast Band Note - 10 PM
Navy Hull Refit - 10 PM
Navy Gun Tackles - 10 PM

Marks and blueprint :
Victory Marks - 50 PM

That's much better. If costs were like this for all nations, I would be for trying it and seeing what happens. 

It's still an issue though that players of winning nation is showered with 150-worth of PvP marks every week. This is still creating an imbalance. If Vic would be craftable without VM's as well, I would be ok with such a system in terms of RvR balance.

 

I think it's a better system to give rewards to active nations, not top nations. This would altogether promote RvR (what you want to archieve), in the same time giving good incentives for players of all nations to actively participate in politics. It could also give players incentives to move to small nations, to reach new goals and get new rewards. Large nations could be toppled without loosing their players.

You could just base rewards on a change of nation's status within 1-4 weeks. This way every nation and every player will have a drive to participate in RvR, not just those nations that have a chance to be in top 3. It will create a more diverse conflict everywhere. I wrote about an example of such system below:

 

With the current system I fear that people will just try to cheat the system, not follow it. It can be cheated in many ways. It's better to create a system which will make people think how to win, rather than how to cheat. For a system to work this way, it has to give everyone a chance. Winning should be easier than cheating.

ps. 3 VM's per week altogether is a huge reward. A nation should get 1 per week max. 50 PvP marks is a sum that an average player will get by fighting in PvP for 40 hours (including searching for PvP).

 

Edited by vazco

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How about this, Devs?  What about people who work for a living, and only come on for a half hour, an hour.  How do they get into port battles?  How long do they have to sail to find the right PVP battle?  You're blocking content from people who have jobs.  I just spent an 45 minutes sailing to a port battle, and a 1/2 hour sailing WITHIN the battle.  (Yeah, I was late.)  I earned ONE PvP mark for my two hours (cuz I had to get home after) of work.  That's horsecrap.  Some guys were happy with 5 marks.  Like starving people waiting for food to be thrown out of the back of a restaurant.  I would not spend 2 hours to get 5 PVP marks.  I don't normally play for more than an hour at a time.  I can grind out combat marks okay, and I rather enjoy fighting the AI.  I have time to do that.  A mission or two a night.  

So....  2 hours for even 5 PVP marks, in a high stress/low fun situation.  I did NOT enjoy myself despite being with good people and a good caller.  I'm just not a PVP guy.  But I'll trade say 200 marks for a victory mark.  That seems steep to me, but if I sail conservatively in my big ships doing missions, they'll last a long time and I won't have to replace them often.  But I just don't have the time to play like other people.  And I don't enjoy PVP.  But every day I craft ships for my guild, move some resources here or there.  Sure, my guild is generous to me, but come on.   I should be able to earn stuff without begging from friends who have spent HOURS earning what I simply don't have time to do, nor does that part of the game appeal to me.

We are all here for different reasons.  Please don't punish me because I'm not like you.  Get rid of the walls between myself and the ships I want to try out.

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 ADMIN - But we will focus on things that we want: Making rvr and pvp matter more or improving the sailing model or adding new ships. 

Understand the reasoning as part of the development, however alienating what population you currently have may not be the approach that you might be looking for.  Understand the effect negative social media can have on a product/service once it has been focused to a single activity.  Is there no way to in which development cannot approach a number of different things at the same time?  There has not been a significant influx of new players over the past year...so your projected gains may not be as expected upon final release.

 

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7 hours ago, DustyA said:

Can we expect front chasers on St Pavel and Bucentaure too? Or will this ship's new front chasers be balanced out by something else? 

It's balanced by the fact that three-decker second rates were the slowest ships afloat.

St. Pavel and Bucentaure were the fastest type of SoL, generally speaking.

 

Edit: Wait, Christian VII is huge. Longer than Victory if Three Decks is correct, with a 2nd Rate armament.

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4 hours ago, Sella22 said:

Whats the logic of bringing Wasa back down to 30 PvP marks

Well OP Wasa for 30 PvP marks is still better than OP Wasa for 75+ PvP marks... at least everyone can have it this way and not only PvP top dogs or those who hoarded endless Wasa notes before the patch ( I know a dude who has 36 Wasa notes left, so yeah seems kinda BS to make it super expensive without wiping all existing notes and ships ). But yeah it really does need a nerf...

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I would like to understand how this change is getting more RvR and PvP. Would be nice if the developers would explain there reason. Maybe the think with 2000 players it will be good. And they expect that numbers when released. 

To win a war you have to have the best strategy, players and resources. Good strategy and getting good players is basic the samen for all nations. Yes big real life nations have an advantage. But that just hard to do anything about. But how should a nation keep up building 1 rates, when some nations get five Vm a week. They already most likely have a bigger player base. Do the math.  It means they can take a 5-1 lose of big ships, and stil meet you on a level term. In my best opinion it will have the cost that no nation outside top 3 can do a long fight. And they will for sure not could do many pb with a br about 9000. 

For the first time I actually are thinking about arranged fights. Lets say we meet another smaller nation in a fight. We both come with same ships and numbers. And only ships that dont cost VM. Hell we might even do that for a couple of pb for port, that is unimportant for both nation.

Well devs got what they want. More PvP and RvR. But I think it is a way to compensate for a failed mechanic. Like all the alts ppl have.(but that is another topic). Is that *the game they want? I hope not.

Edited by staun

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VMs is a complicated issue.

The fair option is to keep the 3 places for nation, okay fair enough, but award VM after cycle to the captains that did sink/assist sinking of enemy player ships in the PBs.

So, there must be a PB, and there must be a sinking for one or more captains of a nation that achieves 1st, 2nd or 3rd place to be elligible for the VM.

Others can keep on OW pvp and exchange as normal.

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21 minutes ago, staun said:

I would like to understand how this change is getting more RvR and PvP. Would be nice if the developers would explain there reason. Maybe the think with 2000 players it will be good. And they expect that numbers when released. 

To win a war you have to have the best strategy, players and resources. Good strategy and getting good players is basic the samen for all nations. Yes big real life nations have an advantage. But that just hard to do anything about. But how should a nation keep up building 1 rates, when some nations get five Vm a week. They already most likely have a bigger player base. Do the math.  It means they can take a 5-1 lose of big ships, and stil meet you on a level term. In my best opinion it will have the cost that no nation outside top 3 can do a long fight. And they will for sure not could do many pb with a br about 9000. 

For the first time I actually are thinking about arranged fights. Lets say we meet another smaller nation in a fight. We both come with same ships and numbers. And only ships that dont cost VM. Hell we might even do that for a couple of pb for port, that is unimportant for both nation.

Well devs got what they want. More PvP and RvR. But I think it is a way to compensate for a failed mechanic. Like all the alts ppl have.(but that is another topic). Is that *the game they want? I hope not.

If you read this forum post from start to finish you will find that all of your questions have already been answered.  You may not like the answers, but they are there. 

For example, and this is just one example, Shallow water ports are an even playing field and everyone can get a heavy rattle - check admiralty store this morning.

 

 

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